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nitzanPremium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:2
1 edit | Not going to help. Gee, so all those folks in South America and India trying to scam you are going to care that their call is now illegal? yeah right...
What this hopefully WILL get - is greater awareness by phone companies. Most of them turn a blind eye if the money is good. I'm not sure if they will be liable under the new rules - but if there is even a chance they are, we'll see a reduction in those calls.
(telecom carriers are usually 100% immune and not responsible for what their subscribers do with their line. I think this is a good thing - but it does let a few rotten apples turn a blind eye to billions of calls they KNOW are telespam) | |
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 ·Verizon FiOS
| that's exactly what will happen - the scammers will simply keep moving offshore where they can't be touched by U.S. laws.
Of course big business (and banks and charities and surveys) will continue to harass people. I have Verizon FIOS and they call me about every 2 weeks via robo call or person offering some new crappy deal to add more services to TV or tell me about a new feature. When I ask them to stop doing it they say they have every right to call me as often as they like since I have a business relationship with them. Retail stores do exactly the same thing, so I've learned not to give out my phone number to retail stores.
Businesses have forgotten that annoying customers is NOT the way to keep customers. They really have forgotten to care about customers, period. Then they wonder why customers don't come back. | |
 Mr NeutronLooks like I picked the wrong week toPremium
join:2005-05-30
Gorham, ME | reply to nitzan
said by nitzan:Gee, so all those folks in South America and India trying to scam you are going to care that their call is now illegal? yeah right... Bingo. The same boiler room operations that used to operate within the US have long since packed up and moved overseas. Good luck trying to find, let along prosecute, someone hammering US citizens with robocalls from Kuala Lumpur. 
The is just the FTC with more feel good "Lookit, we're protecting the consumer!" legislation, nothing more. [sigh]
said by nitzan:What this hopefully WILL get - is greater awareness by phone companies. Unfortunately, the telcos aren't likely to give a toss because telemarketers making calls means more money for the telcos.
Expecting the telcos to get up in arms about telemarketers is like expecting the USPS to get up in arms about the DMA and junk mail. Sure, I'd like to think it would happen, and I'm sure you would, too, but the probability of it actually happening is slim to none because the bad guys represent a revenue source, and one large enough that the telcos would be shooting themselves in the foot by messing with it. 
There's gold in them thar obnoxious phone calls. 
--
Damascus, Aurens.
Aurens, not this. Go round.
Damascus, Aurens - Damascus!
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nitzanPremium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:2 | said by Mr Neutron:Unfortunately, the telcos aren't likely to give a toss because telemarketers making calls means more money for the telcos. Well, as a telecom operator myself (VoIP provider) - I do give a damn. Unfortunately other operators do not.
Catching the bad guys is not hard at all - just cooperate more with public-facing telcos like VoIP providers. If a guy telespams from my network and pays me - I'm going to have at minimum his billing address and IP address. Locating him should be trivial with that.
Sure- the US has no jurisdiction in other countries, but if the guy is scamming millions out of old folks over here - the US can and should request him extradited. Few countries would want to say no to such a request if the proof is hard enough. Bad PR, and few countries want to get on the US's bad side. | |
Mr NeutronLooks like I picked the wrong week toPremium
join:2005-05-30
Gorham, ME
2 edits | said by nitzan:said by Mr Neutron:Unfortunately, the telcos aren't likely to give a toss because telemarketers making calls means more money for the telcos. Well, as a telecom operator myself (VoIP provider) - I do give a damn. Unfortunately other operators do not. Catching the bad guys is not hard at all - just cooperate more with public-facing telcos like VoIP providers. If a guy telespams from my network and pays me - I'm going to have at minimum his billing address and IP address. Locating him should be trivial with that. A telemarketer can't furnish a mail drop as a billing address? They do it all the time. And an IP address is only useful if the telemarketers stick around for a while.
Unfortunately, these guys pack up and move on a fairly regular basis. So long as they pay their bills, the landlord/local telco isn't likely to care what they get up to.
said by nitzan:Sure- the US has no jurisdiction in other countries, but if the guy is scamming millions out of old folks over here - the US can and should request him extradited. Few countries would want to say no to such a request if the proof is hard enough. Bad PR, and few countries want to get on the US's bad side. If you'll pardon my saying so, that's wishful thinking.
If you've traveled yourself outside of the First World, you'll know firsthand that not every country holds Americans in high regard. And that goes double for requests from the US government.
I'm sure the Feds would like to think that every country jumps when they snap their fingers, but that's not how it works anymore. Try extraditing someone from, say, Burkina Faso sometime and you'll see what I mean. And Burkina Faso is not the only country to lack an extradition treaty with us; there were at least a couple of dozen countries on the list the last time I looked (incidentally, China was one of them).
I understand what you're saying, and I think it's great that you, personally, care, but the incentive for other businesses to dedicate time and effort to stamping out bogus telemarketers is not, as far as I can tell, present. Far easier, instead, for them to just sit back and keep raking in the dough.
--
Damascus, Aurens.
Aurens, not this. Go round.
Damascus, Aurens - Damascus!
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nitzanPremium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:2 | said by Mr Neutron:A telemarketer can't furnish a mail drop as a billing address? They do it all the time. And an IP address is only useful if the telemarketers stick around for a while. Given it's VoIP service - the IP address is visible constantly.
You'd be surprised how many of them give out real addresses though. They know the US authorities are not going to come after them so they are careless.
If you've traveled yourself outside of the First World, you'll know firsthand that not every country holds Americans in high regard. And that goes double for requests from the US government. Actually I was born in Israel, lived in the US for a while, and staying in Japan right now. I know for sure both Israel and Japan would comply. Places like Iran obviously won't - but most countries would. Pissing off the US costs money.
I understand what you're saying, and I think it's great that you, personally, care, but the incentive for other businesses to dedicate time and effort to stamping out bogus telemarketers is not, as far as I can tell, present. Far easier, instead, for them to just sit back and keep raking in the dough.
Agreed. Unfortunately in the scheme of things those of us that do care are far too small to matter. It's the big guys that need to stop looking at the money and start looking at who's using their networks. If it's from a third world country and making millions of calls - it's spam. Not so hard to catch. | |
Mr NeutronLooks like I picked the wrong week toPremium
join:2005-05-30
Gorham, ME
1 edit | said by nitzan:said by Mr Neutron:A telemarketer can't furnish a mail drop as a billing address? They do it all the time. And an IP address is only useful if the telemarketers stick around for a while. Given it's VoIP service - the IP address is visible constantly. You'd be surprised how many of them give out real addresses though. They know the US authorities are not going to come after them so they are careless. Even more basic, bureaucrats take time to do things. So even if the telemarketers are careless enough to divulge their real address, (not all bad guys are smart bad guys) by the time anyone shows up, they will most likely be gone.
These guys need two things to operate: computers and phone lines. And that first item is highly portable and takes almost no time to install or remove. And many legitimate businesses need multiple lines, so it's hard to suss out who's naughty and nice until they've been doing their thing for a while.
Which is why the smart scammers are always on the go. Why stick around and give the authorities a chance to catch up?
said by nitzan:If you've traveled yourself outside of the First World, you'll know firsthand that not every country holds Americans in high regard. And that goes double for requests from the US government. Actually I was born in Israel, lived in the US for a while, and staying in Japan right now. I know for sure both Israel and Japan would comply. I'm sure they would, but Israel and Japan are both First World countries. I wasn't referring to First World (i.e. fully developed) countries, but Third World ones. Such countries can have perfectly viable phone systems and no real way of being able to find people in a hurry like you can in a First World setting.
Read up on Somalia sometime. It's constantly bandied about that Somalia has no government. And while that's certainly true, they do, however, still have a telecommunications infrastructure. Even with no government, people still want to make and receive phone calls (especially when they have relatives abroad).
said by nitzan:Places like Iran obviously won't - but most countries would. Pissing off the US costs money. Only if a) you're getting foreign aid from the US or B) you have an economy that's built-up enough that the US can impose economic sanctions on you.
Again, in the Third World, it's not uncommon for Americans to be held in low esteem. So telling them you're going to take away money they're not getting in the first place doesn't do anything. And threatening to make poor people even poorer has a bad way of backfiring and doing nothing but serve to strengthen their resolve not to have anything to do with you.
Tough guy contests with Third World countries don't always have the outcome that you'd think they'd have. Small and weak does not always mean weak-willed. And people do not always take kindly to being told what to do.
said by nitzan:I understand what you're saying, and I think it's great that you, personally, care, but the incentive for other businesses to dedicate time and effort to stamping out bogus telemarketers is not, as far as I can tell, present. Far easier, instead, for them to just sit back and keep raking in the dough.
Agreed. Unfortunately in the scheme of things those of us that do care are far too small to matter. It's the big guys that need to stop looking at the money and start looking at who's using their networks. If it's from a third world country and making millions of calls - it's spam. Not so hard to catch. We'll see what happens.
The impression I'm getting is that most folks have taken matters into their own hands and are using available technology to screen out (or at least greatly reduce) telemarketing calls. And VoIP products seem to offer flexibility in doing that that landlines can't (or, at least, can't do at the same price point).
--
Damascus, Aurens.
Aurens, not this. Go round.
Damascus, Aurens - Damascus!
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