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AJ_KK

join:2009-08-30

Power Surge Protector & DSL Signals

Hi, Can I connect the power, DSL, and phone cable into my Surge Protector? Will it eat up my DSL speed or cause my modem to lose max attainable bit rate?


westom

join:2009-03-15
kudos:1

said by AJ_KK:

Hi, Can I connect the power, DSL, and phone cable into my Surge Protector? Will it eat up my DSL speed or cause my modem to lose max attainable bit rate?
How much capacitance in that protector? Increased capacitance causes signal losses.

Meanwhile, all telcos already install a protector for free where their wires meet yours. A protectors designed to not degrade DSL signals.

What are you trying to do? Do you think that silly little box by itself will stop what three miles of sky could not? Do you think its tiny little components will stop a surge of hundreds of thousands of joules? What do you want to do?

View what another has recently seen:
»tinyurl.com/l8l6or

A protector simply connects a surge to all other wires. If connected within feet of earth, then a surge is harmlessly absorbed by earth. If too far from earth and adjacent to electronics, then the surge has more paths to find earth destructively via the appliance.

Don't take my word for it. View its manufacturer numeric specs. Show us where it even claims protection from each type of surge. It does not.

Why does your telco install that protector for free? Because the superior protector costs so little money. And can be earthed. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

Meanwhile, what is the largest source of DSL damage? Incoming on AC mains. Surges seek earth ground. One perfect path is incoming on AC mains, destructively through your DSL equipment, and to earth ground via the phone line. Why? The phone line is already connected to earth via the telco provided surge protector. But you caused the damage. You permitted a surge inside the building. You did not earth a 'whole house' protector at the breaker box.

What are you trying to accomplish? Surge protection? Or do you just assume something called a surge protector must be surge protection. A protector is nothing more than a connecting device. Surge protection is earth ground. If you want surge protection, fix what is protection.

daveinpoway
Premium
join:2006-07-03
Poway, CA
kudos:2

If the telephone company protector that was installed when my house was built (1973) doesn't degrade DSL, it is just a coincidence, since the protector wasn't designed for DSL compatibility (ADSL didn't exist back then).

That said, I use the phone line protection circuitry built into an old UPS I scrounged up, and it seems to work fine with my DSL connection. Since we get relatively little lightning in this area, I will probably never get a chance to really check out how good my protection is in the real world. In someplace like Florida, my protection would be tested many times per year.


westom

join:2009-03-15
kudos:1

1 edit

said by daveinpoway:

If the telephone company protector that was installed when my house was built (1973) doesn't degrade DSL, it is just a coincidence, since the protector wasn't designed for DSL compatibility (ADSL didn't exist back then).
Protector installed even before 1985 have always had that low capacitance - which means compatible with DSL signals. You are declaring a fact only from speculation - no numbers and no electrical facts. Phone lines used low capacitance surge protection - even in the 1950s. But protectors in some power strips use a cheaper solution; with excessive capacitance.

Why do 1950 phone wires support DSL service? Cannot be. DSL did not exist in the 1950s. Therefore 1950 wires could never support DSL? - using your logic. Please learn simple technology and numbers before posting. Please do not make conclusions only from wild speculation.

A responsible answer starts with numbers - such as a protector's capacitance. But many protectors will not be so honest - will not provide that critical number. Because telco equipment existed before DSL means it will not support DSL?

daveinpoway
Premium
join:2006-07-03
Poway, CA
kudos:2

So far as I can recall, I don't believe that I've ever seen a phone-line surge protector state a capacitance value in the specifications. The only spec I've ever seen has been the protection voltage. Thus, I will agree with you that many/most manufacturers don't provide "that critical number".

Not sure how many people bother to do this, but the best way to determine the DSL compatibility of a surge protector would seem to be reading out the line statistics from the modem without the protector being present, then installing the protector and re-checking the statistics. This will tell you how much the protector is degrading the statistics at your specific location.


AJ_KK

join:2009-08-30

Hi, you are spot on.... I had a very specific reason behind posting this quest.... when I ran the Line Test while the power surge protector was on, the line stats were very degraded.. esp the Current Bit Rate and the Max attainable bit rate.... The current bit rate has to be a min 50% or more than the Max attainable bit rate under normal circumstance (also takes into a/c distance between my home and the Central Office server) I had either very poor speed or highly intermittent connection or No Sync between my modem and the Central Office. Hence, I isolated the Power Surge protector and the line stats improved/normalized dramatically, and my connection is super fast like I never imagined before.

If anyone has similar experience, then I would not be surprised at all since I know most ISPs would want Power Surge Protector out of their equation in troubleshooting for Slow/Intermittent connection.

Please share your thoughts and experience....


westom

join:2009-03-15
kudos:1

said by AJ_KK:

.... when I ran the Line Test while the power surge protector was on, the line stats were very degraded.. esp the Current Bit Rate and the Max attainable bit rate....
Those numbers can vary significantly with each protector. Reasons why are obvious from spec numbers such as capacitance.

But a phone line already has a superior surge protector installed, for free and as required by code, where a phone line enters the building. A protector that has existed even long before the 1950s, in most cases, does not degrade DSL service. A protector that can actually provide protection when it makes an always required short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to single point earth ground.

Surges seek destructive paths to earth. One outgoing path is phone lines - due to a properly earthed surge protector. Essential to protection of phone line appliances is a properly earth protector on all other incoming utility wires - especially AC electric. A most common source of modem or other phone line appliance damage is a surge incoming on AC electric - outgoing to earth via the phone line and its existing protector.

Protetion or damage - its about the path that current takes to earth ground. Where surge damage cannot happen, protection is always installed so that the surge is earthed without entering the building. Protectors that do not do that will somehow stop what three miles of sky could not? View its manufacturer specs. Even those do not claim protection for good reason. It must stop what three miles of sky could not. No protector does that.