 manfmmdPremium
join:2003-01-14
Earth, TX
 ·AT&T Southwest
 ·CMA Access
| Something tells me if Bush was still in, the left would be all over this..
Change you can believe in?
Riiiiiiiiiight....
ACLU...EFF...Where art thou?
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"The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan |
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| They're too busy trying to destroy our intelligence gathering agencies. You know, because they are evil.
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 funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | reply to manfmmd
said by manfmmd:tells me if Bush was still in, the left would be all over this.. All over what?
These aren't "left" versus "right" issues.
The EFF is still fighting the Bush policies that Obama is continuing. "Change you can believe in?" Obama voted for telecom immunity, so I guess we shouldn't expect change.
Obama is also getting no special pass for the copyright power grab that simply continues under his watch (although a lot of bad copyright-strengthening proposals come from the left, anyway).
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Evil does seek to maintain power by suppressing the truth, or by misleading the innocent. --Spock and McCoy stardate 5029.5 |
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 Titus PulloI came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
kudos:1
·Embarq Now Centu..
| reply to manfmmd
said by manfmmd:tells me if Bush was still in, the left would be all over this.. Change you can believe in? Riiiiiiiiiight.... ACLU...EFF...Where art thou? Oh, I agree that there's nothing quite so vague as government wording by government lawyers. It's a cesspool of excrement so vile it'd make a freight train take a dirt road.
But, you know (or you damn well should), all this left - right bullsh*t has become completely irrelevant at this point. Either your faux representative government is one that caters to your ideology, by and large, or it doesn't. There is no left or right; it's a damn shell game of divide and conquer run by two parties that do a kabuki on behalf of their corporate masters. You can bet your last penny that Reagan knew at least this much.
And therein lies the only difference between these two affiliations: there are more within the 'right' well aware of this, evidently, than there are on the 'left' -- where wide-eyed idealism (which, for the love of God should have been destroyed, if not by Reagan then certainly by Bush) still lives in small clusters of people who, if they're not smoking skank bud, should be.
I'll tell you this much: if Bush were still ... I don't want to think about it; it's positively perverse.
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 BloodRosesAeolus, your daughter flies.Premium
join:2003-03-17
Louisville, KY | Thanks for that, it made me giggle.  |
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manfmmdPremium
join:2003-01-14
Earth, TX Reviews:
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| reply to funchords
said by funchords:said by manfmmd:tells me if Bush was still in, the left would be all over this.. All over what? These aren't "left" versus "right" issues. The EFF is still fighting the Bush policies that Obama is continuing. "Change you can believe in?" Obama voted for telecom immunity, so I guess we shouldn't expect change. Obama is also getting no special pass for the copyright power grab that simply continues under his watch (although a lot of bad copyright-strengthening proposals come from the left, anyway). They shouldn't be left or right issues, but the emphasis placed on these issues, the choice to pursue these issues, and the media coverage that each receives depends on who is in power at the time.
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"The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan |
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 GlobalMindDomino Dude, POWER Systems GuyPremium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL | reply to manfmmd
Well let's not forget the Patriot Act....talk about seizing control... |
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GlobalMindDomino Dude, POWER Systems GuyPremium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL | reply to BloodRoses
said by BloodRoses:Thanks for that, it made me giggle. +1 "skank bud" classic... : ) |
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 jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
 ·voip.ms
| reply to funchords
said by funchords:The EFF is still fighting the Bush policies that Obama is continuing. "Change you can believe in?" Obama voted for telecom immunity, so I guess we shouldn't expect change. Don't you mean the Clinton policies that Bush continued and Obama is continuing?
I thought so.  |
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manfmmdPremium
join:2003-01-14
Earth, TX Reviews:
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1 edit | reply to GlobalMind
said by GlobalMind:Well let's not forget the Patriot Act....talk about seizing control... I'm not saying forget the Patriot Act, I'm saying let's apply the same standard to WHOEVER is in office, regardless of party affiliation.
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"The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan |
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GlobalMindDomino Dude, POWER Systems GuyPremium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL | said by manfmmd:said by GlobalMind:Well let's not forget the Patriot Act....talk about seizing control... I'm not saying forget the Patriot Act, I'm saying let's apply the same standard to WHOEVER is in office, regardless of party affiliation. Entirely agree with you there.
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TheGlobalMind.com / Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? / Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. - Ralph Waldo Emerson / Free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. |
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axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC | reply to manfmmd
"The left" should be all over it, someone like Bush could be in office again. He was all about interpreting vaguely defined powers to mean the maximum, for example the Patriot Act authorization. |
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 KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to manfmmd
You're missing the point. What's happening is the Right is so ready to go off on Obama about anything and everything that they shoot themselves in the foot (again) going off about something that's not there.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | reply to manfmmd
The EFF doesn't move until the threat is real. Under Bush, it always was. |
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 nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | reply to KrK
said by KrK:You're missing the point. What's happening is the Right is so ready to go off on Obama about anything and everything that they shoot themselves in the foot (again) going off about something that's not there. I'd *really* not categorize McCullough as part of "the right". Libertarians, as centrists, tend to be left of both of the two major parties' national office holders.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| said by nixen:Libertarians, as centrists, tend to be left of both of the two major parties' national office holders. That's not quite true.
Conservatives say Libertarians are "left" due to L's believing that social relationships should be consensual, not coerced by public law. (E.g., no war on drugs; no definition of marriage; etc.).
Liberals say Libertarians are "right" due to L's believing that markets (essentially socio-economic relationships) should be consensual, not coerced by public law. (E.g., no SEC or food & drug quality laws; free markets in the true, Darwinian sense.).
Libertarians (true Libertarians) are extremely consistent in their beliefs. This leads to adherants of the two traditional parties feeling uncomfortable -- liberals advocating freedom of individual matters, but not in commerce; conservatives advocating freedom of commerce, but not individual matters (unless it involves guns).
But, it's all meaningless because true, consistent Libertarianism cannot, and has not existed. It's not reasonable. There will always be coercion in any society. Once that can of worms is opened, it's just a matter of negotiation -- and, the unfortunate spectacle of both political parties unable to cope with the fact that they're both violating the same principle (non-coercion) in different ways, accusing the other of being guilty.
And then there's the Ron Paul (small l) libertarians. They use all the Big-L rhetoric to sound like they're standing on moral high ground (above the two parties), while distancing themselves from Big Ls due to their obvious irrelevancy, and thus embracing coercion just like the two parties. Just differently, in ways that benefit them.
Mark |
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funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | reply to jester121
said by jester121:Don't you mean the Clinton policies that Bush continued and Obama is continuing? That could be true. If it is, thanks for the correction. |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| reply to jester121
said by jester121:said by funchords:The EFF is still fighting the Bush policies that Obama is continuing. "Change you can believe in?" Obama voted for telecom immunity, so I guess we shouldn't expect change. Don't you mean the Clinton policies that Bush continued and Obama is continuing? Don't you mean the Reagan and Bush I policies that Clinton and Bush II continued, and Obama is continuing?
RICO (Reagan's PCOC, President's Commission on Organized Crime) and the "War on Drugs" comes to mind.
Mark
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | reply to nixen
Possibly, but he sure went off the right hand side of the road on this one. |
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to jester121
said by jester121:Don't you mean the Clinton policies that Bush continued and Obama is continuing? Hardly....
But it is true that before everything instantly became Obama's fault it was Clinton's fault--- if you ask the right, anyway.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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