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FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 edit

1 recommendation

Customers understand upgrading a network is hard & expensive

And don't forget time consuming. But I don't agree that most customers understand that at all. Most think big network changes can be accomplished in months if not quicker. Few realize that the kind of upgrades being discussed here take years to accomplish.

A legitimate complaint would be that AT&T probably didn't listen to their strategic planning group which I have no doubt foresaw all this growth occurring several years ago. But most corporations don't listen to their strategic planning groups. They listen much more closely to their financial planners.

From AT&T a number they should have designed for and didn't:»www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=1574
Wireless use on our network has grown an average of 350 percent year-over-year for the past two years, and is projected to continue at a rapid pace in 2009 and beyond.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page


en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
said by FFH5:

But most corporations don't listen to their strategic planning groups. They listen much more closely to their financial planners.
I agree 100%.
--
Canada = Hollywood North

Glenn_Davis
Premium
join:2007-07-28
Lenoir City, TN
reply to FFH5
Isn't the point that iPhone users are paying for services they do not have? That would make me angry, for sure.

MRCUR

join:2007-03-09
Columbia, PA
I think that's the much bigger issues (especially for me). I've had the original iPhone, tried the 3G but returned it because it didn't work at my house (the 3G reliability sucks here, speeds are just OK), had a BB Bold, and now have an iPhone 3GS.

I paid $20/month for unlimited EDGE data and 200 SMS on the original iPhone. I thought that was a very reasonable price. I was then asked to pay $30/month for data-only with the 3G, and both phones thereafter. I understand this - it was in line with most carriers data pricing. I already had unlimited texting by then anyways, so I didn't care.

But, here's the sticking point for me: Those same $30 got me fantastic push email, cellular video access, 3G, and TETHERING on my Bold. Of course MMS also worked... Why the hell as AT&T not gotten their crap together at least with pricing?


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
said by MRCUR:

But, here's the sticking point for me: Those same $30 got me fantastic push email, cellular video access, 3G, and TETHERING on my Bold. Of course MMS also worked...Why the hell has AT&T not gotten their crap together at least with pricing?
How about because AT&T made such a lousy deal with what they pay to Apple that they have to charge more for iPhones than what they do with other 3G phones.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page


BOGBS
Premium
join:2004-05-11

4 edits
reply to FFH5
said by FFH5:

A legitimate complaint would be that AT&T probably didn't listen to their strategic planning group which I have no doubt foresaw all this growth occurring several years ago. But most corporations don't listen to their strategic planning groups. They listen much more closely to their financial planners.
Thanks for saying this. I wish more people would realize this. I can 100% identify, working in telecommunications myself. There is rarely a balance struck in cost/capacity for future upgrades.

said by MRCUR:

But, here's the sticking point for me: Those same $30 got me fantastic push email, cellular video access, 3G, and TETHERING on my Bold. Of course MMS also worked... Why the hell as AT&T not gotten their crap together at least with pricing?
That $30 did not buy you tethering, as defined by the plan. Tethering isn't technically included on the $30 BIS plan... You have to implement a workaround, or buy a 3rd party application as TetherBerry. If you really paid for tethering, you'd have the BIS+Tethering plan, with a 5GB cap @$60/mo.

This comes from a BlackBerry Bold user, that relies service for Business. I can't chance tethering on a plan that isn't designed for it, that's for sure. Other than that, using workarounds and 3rd party applications is fine for those who use their phones for non-critical, low use, personal customers


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to FFH5
said by FFH5:

Few realize that the kind of upgrades being discussed here take years to accomplish.
In my experience, I've always found it's a question of priorities. I've noticed that if the priority is there, then the money is available, and things can happen AMAZINGLY FAST. It's all about the choice and then allocating the resources. Now I'm not saying AT&T should spend the extra to make crews work 24/7 etc but they should have been working on this as a high priority from day one. 2 years on, wow.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini


jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
reply to FFH5
Um, what does that has to do with the lack of functionality on the data plan?

bsoft

join:2004-03-28
Boulder, CO
reply to BOGBS
I'm sick and tired of telcos complaining about capacity issues. Guess what? Building capacity for their customers is part of doing business.

AT&T made over 12 BILLION dollars in profit last year. And they have the audacity to say that they can't get network upgrades done. The iPhone 3G has been out for over a year, and other 3G phones have been out for far longer. AT&T knew that the iPhone 2G drove higher data usage; they should have had the foresight to realize that the 3G would drive higher data usage as well.

The iPhone is sold all over the world, and yet it only seems to be AT&T that has these massive capacity issues. AT&T has the resources to get it fixed.

We don't have to put up with crappy service just because AT&T is unwilling or unable to provide high quality service.

WhatNow
Premium
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
The engineers at the bottom design a good network for an area that would be flexible and easy to upgrade but the spreadsheet managers nickel and dime it to death. The final design ends up being obsolete by the time it is turned up at a single tower. Then they don't want spend any more money because they have already blown their budget for that area.
Their game plan is penny wise and pound foolish.


elbm

join:2000-08-03
Reisterstown, MD
reply to FFH5
And they are still just listening to the financial guys. VZW is upgrading their transport to the towers by putting in new protected sonet rings, using Fujitsu FW4100s with gigE optical hand offs at all of their towers. ATT has opted to put Transparent Lan Service (TLS) to their towers which is basically ethernet over fiber. No protection, just two fibers vs four, no ability to switch paths, TLS is unregulated, sonet has FCC mandated response times, hits on a sonet ring are transparent to the user, hits on TLS take time to recover...... But tls is far cheaper the ethernet over sonet.


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to jhboricua
said by jhboricua:

Um, what does that has to do with the lack of functionality on the data plan?
Nothing. BUt I was answering a pricing question. Can you read?
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

jniamehr
Premium
join:2003-10-09
Roslyn, NY

1 recommendation

reply to en102
said by en102:

said by FFH5:

But most corporations don't listen to their strategic planning groups. They listen much more closely to their financial planners.
I agree 100%.
Now all of a sudden being fiscally responsible is out of style???? Come on people... A Corporation incorporates many facets.... AT&T is a FOR PROFIT company with THOUSANDS OF EMPLOYEES, SHAREHOLDERS, and CUSTOMERS. They need to be able to pay the employee the paycheck, the shareholders their dividends, but in regards to the consumer, the power is in their favor, they have the ability to consume or to forgo consumption. I chose to consume an iPhone. I agreed to the TOS and pay my bill. If you don't like it don't buy it.


en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
This is about AT&T's response on why they're having issues... and some of us calling them out on it.

I don't use an iPhone, but did have a 'normal' 3G phone, and when AT&T deployed 3G 2 years ago, the service went to hell. It took more than a year afterwards for them to fix it where I am... and still another year later other markets are still having the issue. I don't blame a company for being fiscally responsible, however, they will potentially lose customers in the near future if they don't attempt to patronize their customers.
Adding fuel to the fire by now making dataplans mandatory on media enhanced and PDA phones will just add to the issue that they covered.
--
Canada = Hollywood North

moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
reply to FFH5
said by FFH5:

said by jhboricua:

Um, what does that has to do with the lack of functionality on the data plan?
Nothing. BUt I was answering a pricing question. Can you read?
And you are completely wrong about pricing too.

ATT is charging what they know they can get away with because THEY HAVE THE IPHONE.

ATT charges $30/month for a data plan that you MUST have to use an iPhone on their network (forget jail breaking and using it on other networks.) An additional $20/month gets you unlimited text messaging.

In comparison, T-mobile charges $35/month for data, visual voicemail and unlimited text messaging on their G1 and MyTouch phones. Verizon charges $20/month for 5000 text messages with unlimited mobile to mobile plus an addition $29.99/month for the basic data plan on their PDA (not Blackberry) phones (and add an additional $2.99 for visual voicemail.) Sprint charges $99/month for everything so take out $40/month for typical voice plans and that equals about $60/month.

So Verizon and ATT charges about the same for PDA type phones ($50/month.) So that means that IF Verizon did get the iPhone, it might have been more expensive on their network just because it is an iPhone. Lets not forget how Verizon loves to disable features on some phones.

ATT is practicing a basic rule of capitalism; charge what the market will bear. Even Sprint is advertising how much a Palm Pre will save someone over the cost of a plan with an iPhone. But everyone wants the iPhone.

Another issue is no one is really sure that Verizon's network could handle the traffic of the iPhone. Face it, that many new subscribers will tax any system. Who is to say any other provider wouldn't have the same issues?


cameronsfx

join:2009-01-08
Panama City, FL
reply to jniamehr
said by jniamehr:

said by en102:

said by FFH5:

But most corporations don't listen to their strategic planning groups. They listen much more closely to their financial planners.
I agree 100%.
Now all of a sudden being fiscally responsible is out of style???? Come on people... A Corporation incorporates many facets.... AT&T is a FOR PROFIT company with THOUSANDS OF EMPLOYEES, SHAREHOLDERS, and CUSTOMERS. They need to be able to pay the employee the paycheck, the shareholders their dividends, but in regards to the consumer, the power is in their favor, they have the ability to consume or to forgo consumption. I chose to consume an iPhone. I agreed to the TOS and pay my bill. If you don't like it don't buy it.
You are my favorite AT&T Wireless iPhone customer! You are eligible for an upgrade to a newer iPhone. Just sign a new 24 month contract and you are set. Oh, $499 for the iPhone. Call 1-900-UR-SCRWD. Yes, a 900 number. Congrats on being #1!

Randall
AT&T CEO

burrzoo

join:2004-03-28
Daly City, CA
reply to WhatNow
said by WhatNow:

The engineers at the bottom design a good network for an area that would be flexible and easy to upgrade but the spreadsheet managers nickel and dime it to death. The final design ends up being obsolete by the time it is turned up at a single tower. Then they don't want spend any more money because they have already blown their budget for that area.
Their game plan is penny wise and pound foolish.
Oh boy, you hit the nail on the head! Welcome to Project Management 101 for the Corporate world! Typical scenario in my experience.


SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to FFH5
Looking for your daily fight?

BTW, the "Bush/Cheney '04" sticker on the back of your Cherokee faded awhile back. You should remove it. Tell your friends, too.

axus

join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
reply to elbm
Heh, you dug up the truth behind the "most reliable network" claims, eh?


Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com
reply to bsoft
said by bsoft:

AT&T made over 12 BILLION dollars in profit last year. And they have the audacity to say that they can't get network upgrades done.
Link? Source?
--
My domain - Nightfall.net