Topic 'Re: [HN9000] Grounding question' in forum 'HughesNet Satellite' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23000472 en Sat, 11 Feb 2012 10:53:49 EDT Sat, 11 Feb 2012 10:53:49 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23290691 If you had a penny for each occurrence, you could afford to travel around the country fixing these ground problems, yourself.

I see one thing has changed over the years, though.
Now, the people you help seem more prone to take your advice...unlike me, and other smarta$$es, who thought we knew better until our systems just ground down to snail speeds.

I am tempted to blame Hughes for not getting shaped up after all this time, but I realize the problem really comes from installers trying to cut their time and costs, at the expense of the unsuspecting customer.

Anyway, glad to see that you are still hacking away at it...and wondering who will take your place when you are no longer able to remember how to spell 'ground'.

CM
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Formerly...Earthlink SRS (DW4000) | G16/970 | 4.2.1.10 beta3 | XP Pro SP2
ICS using 'phoneline' NICs with 1 client (XP Home SP2)
Norton Internet Security on host, XP SP2 ICF on client]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23290691 Wed, 04 Nov 2009 13:35:39 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23276025 said by grohgreg:

said by UncleScooter:

Not even close to HNS requirements. Total BS, you must work for QSX, or you are a P-10 installer!
Yup, or a ROTV installer. I've run into plenty of them who obliviously assume one-way TV grounding principles to two-way satellite internet configurations.

//greg//
Nope, I just went back and looked at his posts, $100 says he's a Desk Jocky auditing install photos for WeQC. ;)

Hey heeby, come on back and play whats the correct answer, BTW, were you at HITS2009 in Baltimore?
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I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I'm not sure about is that what you heard isn't exactly what I meant.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23276025 Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:34:52 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23274978 said by UncleScooter:

Not even close to HNS requirements. Total BS, you must work for QSX, or you are a P-10 installer!
Yup, or a ROTV installer. I've run into plenty of them who obliviously assume one-way TV grounding principles to two-way satellite internet configurations.

//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23274978 Sun, 01 Nov 2009 15:04:29 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23237973 said by harada:

feed horn for LNB. I looking for a feed horn for my LNB for the HN9000 modem. Does anyone have one for sale or know where I can purchase one from?
They are not sold as a separate item. :huh:

BTW, why do you need a feed horn?
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I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I'm not sure about is that what you heard isn't exactly what I meant.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23237973 Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:17:35 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23237965 said by heeby jeeby :

ok....we go thru this often enough. here is hughes latest REQUIREMENT for installations regarding grounding:

FROM the dish to the ground block: rg6 dual shield with 17g messenger wire. messenger wire MUST be attached to separate bolt on an UNUSED portion of the elevation slot on the back frame. period. not the lug on the transmitter, not the mount, but the elevation slot. NO "double nutting", cant add a 1/2" bolt to the elevation threaded rod, or elevation bolt. MUST be separate bolt.

the ground block MUST be in a weather proof location (indoors ONLY, not under a deck or eve) or in a weather proof enclosure. PERIOD.

from the ground block, a minimum 10g GREEN ground wire not to exceed 20 feet, to an approved bonding point. longer ground runs are acceptable with larger gauge wire per specs. approved bonding points are: structural steel (commercial buildings or trailers only, must use i-beam clamp), bonded cold water pipes within 5 feet of water pipe entering the building (must use pipe clamp, not straps), electrical box (in and outside with pan clamp), house ground wire (using split bolt), and house ground rods (using acorn bolts). NON UL-Approved bonds are NOT approved and WILL fail QA photo audits. ie, cannot use a self tapping screw with ground wire wrapped around it to structural steel. the self tapper is NOT a UL approved item.

from the ground block to the modem, rg-6 dual. the total rg6 dual limit is i think 182 feet-ish. longer runs will -by spec- require rg-6 quad, rg-11, heliax......whatever based on ifl run length.

hope this helps.
Not even close to HNS requirements. Total BS, you must work for QSX, or you are a P-10 installer!
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I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I'm not sure about is that what you heard isn't exactly what I meant.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23237965 Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:06:35 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23236901 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23236901 Sat, 24 Oct 2009 21:38:17 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23025303 As such it was not my responsibility originally to ensure "proper" grounding of the equipment.I am not a installer that is certified.
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23025303 Tue, 15 Sep 2009 04:05:46 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23022718 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23022718 Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:46:30 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23022475
Got off the phone with "tech support".(used loosely)
My grounding they said was the contractors responsibility and since it was "out of warranty" the would have to roll a installer out to me at my expense.I asked if my equipment was out of warranty and the said "no its under warranty till Sept 13 2010,exactly 2 years from date of install"
So the Modem and Dish/Transmitter is still warrantied but the cable is not.
So I told them point blank that since they did not do it right the first time that there was no way that I was going to pay to have a installer come and fix this issue and that I could do a better job of it myself.
I had a good laugh to at the "tech rep" I spoke to.I said I had a grounding issue and gave him my case number that they had emailed me last Thursday,I also told him they said they would call me within 24 hours and its been over 48 hours ago,I told him this was a Electrical Grounding issue.To which he asked "So you need to re point your dish?" LOL

Any way long and the short of this story is this.
I am going to re do the cabling from the Point of entery into my house and I will follow the grounding and weather proofing guide lines that I got out of the FSB_050518_01D Cables and ground blocks.pdf.
I am going to run my cables like in the following pic.
[att=1]
Edit* I even got the original installers name and number from Hughesnet.His numbers turn up little old ladies that never heard of him and a Yellow and White pages search brings up nothing about him.I was going to contact him and see if he would stand good on his work.So far I have not been able to get in touch with him.Although his web site is still up.»appalachianmountainsatellite.com/default.htm

NOTICE-the dish on his web site front page is installed just like mine.

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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23022475 Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:07:55 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23006291 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23006291 Fri, 11 Sep 2009 08:17:10 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23006156 www.homenetworksupply.com/produc···86708281
Then you'll need some connectors like this: »www.summitsource.com/product_inf···_id=8538 and a ground block like this: »www.summitsource.com/3-ghz-groun···579.html

Word of caution though, putting new connectors on old cable is sometimes self-defeating. Might not be a bad idea to consider starting over with new cable while you're at it. Again, 3GHz swept RG6 would be my recommendation. I personally like Belden 1829BC, because it's flooded (suitable for direct bury).

I don't see any problem going 75' with 10ga solid copper.

//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23006156 Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:53:39 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23006068 said by grohgreg:

Most compression connectors are exterior rated, and you have to seal them with dielectric grease anyway. Rather than pay shipping and handling for just a handful of connectors, why not get one of those installation kits from a home improvement store? It's got a cable cutter, cable stripper, compression tool, and a handful of connectors all in one package. Just make sure the connectors are frequency swept to at least 2.2GHz (like HDTV connectors).
We're talking boonies here. The only home improvement store within range didn't have what I needed.

Is #10 solid copper conductor adequate between new grounding rod to existing electrical service ground rod?
Ordinarily, yes. But just to be on the safe side, how many feet of wire?

Approx. 75 feet.

Edit:
75 feet is if I stay on the outside of the house (from new grounding rod to existing service grounding rod). If I can put the grounding block inside, I can get to a copper cold water pipe or the #12 ground wire on one of the interior receptacles within 20 feet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23006068 Fri, 11 Sep 2009 05:18:08 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23005654 I will look it over,but you can bet I will pursue getting this taken care of.To be honest I have been confused about this since I posted about it back 6 months ago.Remember I am a picture kinda guy and do things hands on.Explaining it to me usually gets me moving in the right direction,but drawing me a picture gets better results.LOL
There was also a bit of confusion for me initially because some of the "older" dishes required more grounding because the were not all metal and I just could not understand the reason for running wire along metal on metal.
Studying on it a bit more I see where the main problem can be at with the Signal+cable+Modem sharing a ground with the dish.The static build up and lightening being bad enough,I do not want to replace all my machine because of lighting running in on them.Having it ALL grounded at the pole gives any stray electrical charge a direct path to my machines.

I will do it like the picture in the FSB,"Figure 13" "Antenna and Coax cable through separate grounding points."
Which basically I will buy a 8 ft Grounding rod and put it by the Dish and connect it to the back of the dish like it states.
The put the Grounding block out of the weather and run a ground to the Main House ground.

Edit-The pic I posted above,the light blue is actually the coax cable,I did not state that in the pic,sorry.I meant to make it so people would see that the light blue was the coax going to the house and the ground block would be mounted to the house. :huh:The way it looks to me now is that the light blue is a ground wire run,it was not intended to be.
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23005654 Fri, 11 Sep 2009 00:38:46 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23005547 said by Tweakbl:

This is the way I visualized grohgreg's explanation of grounding.
I hope this one is better.
No. That one isn't workable either. Just review the FSB, perhaps the lightbulb will come on then.

//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23005547 Fri, 11 Sep 2009 00:04:06 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23005532 said by Tweakbl:

I wonder also if there can be any loss of signal or degrading and if fixing it the way you and greg have stated would give me a boost?
Assuming no bad connectors, I wouldn't anticipate any change in signal level. The benefit you will derive from remedying your ground configuration will be in the form of increased signal stability and quite probably a lower long term error count.

//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23005532 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:59:22 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23005193 This is my email to them.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------
It has recently come to my attention that I have a grounding problem between my Dish and my Modem.
I have had service for about a year or more and have just been informed by a satellite dish installer that I have a improper ground on my system.
The only ground I have is mounted to the pole the dish is mounted on and it runs through the grounding block that is mounted to the pole also.
I have no POE ground at all and the grounding block also serves as a cable connection on the pole.
From what I understand with my type of installation I need (1) One POE grounding block to ground the system/electronics/signal and (1) One other separate ground coming off the Dish itself.
Also NONE of my connectors were properly weather proofed with self fusing tape.They did use some grease on the connectors.Also my grounding block that was improperly installed was not housed in a weather resistant enclosure.I can send pictures if needed.
I hope this situation will be addressed as I am afraid of a electric fire.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------
I am going to get this fixed.I noticed the weather proof tape was not on my install either :) This alone would make me email and complain.
As it stands,if I had my entire length of cable outta the ground and ends reversed it would match up perfect to pass a audit.
The end that has the grounding block would be on my modem end and not the dish end.Thus making it easier to ground to my trailers frame or main ground rod.
I wonder also if there can be any loss of signal or degrading and if fixing it the way you and greg have stated would give me a boost?
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23005193 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:40:46 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23005059 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23005059 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:22:03 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23005041
FROM the dish to the ground block: rg6 dual shield with 17g messenger wire. messenger wire MUST be attached to separate bolt on an UNUSED portion of the elevation slot on the back frame. period. not the lug on the transmitter, not the mount, but the elevation slot. NO "double nutting", cant add a 1/2" bolt to the elevation threaded rod, or elevation bolt. MUST be separate bolt.

the ground block MUST be in a weather proof location (indoors ONLY, not under a deck or eve) or in a weather proof enclosure. PERIOD.

from the ground block, a minimum 10g GREEN ground wire not to exceed 20 feet, to an approved bonding point. longer ground runs are acceptable with larger gauge wire per specs. approved bonding points are: structural steel (commercial buildings or trailers only, must use i-beam clamp), bonded cold water pipes within 5 feet of water pipe entering the building (must use pipe clamp, not straps), electrical box (in and outside with pan clamp), house ground wire (using split bolt), and house ground rods (using acorn bolts). NON UL-Approved bonds are NOT approved and WILL fail QA photo audits. ie, cannot use a self tapping screw with ground wire wrapped around it to structural steel. the self tapper is NOT a UL approved item.

from the ground block to the modem, rg-6 dual. the total rg6 dual limit is i think 182 feet-ish. longer runs will -by spec- require rg-6 quad, rg-11, heliax......whatever based on ifl run length.

hope this helps.
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23005041 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:08:10 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23004571 [att=1]

This is the way I visualized grohgreg's explanation of grounding.
I hope this one is better.
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked
Click for full size
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23004571 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:36:08 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23004494 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23004494 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:22:35 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23004455 said by grohgreg:

said by Tweakbl:

I am going to look for the Hughes FSB (field service bulletin) 050518D (or current)
I've got FSB_050518_01D, but the file is too big to upload here. It's emailable though, if you'd like

//greg//
»/r0/download/1···ocks.pdf

Here is a link to FSB_050518_01D if someone wants to look at it.
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HN9000/Spaceway III,74m/1w,Elite package,XP Pro,]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23004455 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:13:44 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23004394
I am working on another pic.To illustrate proper grounding.
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23004394 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:01:17 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23004335 said by Tweakbl:

I am going to look for the Hughes FSB (field service bulletin) 050518D (or current)
I've got FSB_050518_01D, but the file is too big to upload here. It's emailable though, if you'd like

//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23004335 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:51:36 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23004240 said by zvolts:

Anybody have a good website and part numbers for outdoor rated connectors and a grounding block?
Most compression connectors are exterior rated, and you have to seal them with dielectric grease anyway. Rather than pay shipping and handling for just a handful of connectors, why not get one of those installation kits from a home improvement store? It's got a cable cutter, cable stripper, compression tool, and a handful of connectors all in one package. Just make sure the connectors are frequency swept to at least 2.2GHz (like HDTV connectors).
said by zvolts:

Is #10 solid copper conductor adequate between new grounding rod to existing electrical service ground rod?
Ordinarily, yes. But just to be on the safe side, how many feet of wire?

//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23004240 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:30:28 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23004208
Since I am upset that Hughesnets "approved" installer did not "properly" ground mine or from the sounds of it MOST systems that have been installed.If anyone has a diagram of the proper way to ground these systems maybe post it here?

I can read about it all day long but a picture,well it is easier for me to grasp. :)

In the mean time I am going to look for the Hughes FSB (field service bulletin) 050518D (or current)
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23004208 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:22:05 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23003302
Anybody have a good website and part numbers for outdoor rated connectors and a grounding block?

Is #10 solid copper conductor adequate between new grounding rod to existing electrical service ground rod?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23003302 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:34:36 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23003265
././greg..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23003265 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:27:37 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23003138 said by Tweakbl:

So you need 3 grounds then?
1.On the Feed arm+Dish+Pole to a seperate Ground rod? 8 ft Ground rod
2.One from the Transmitter?To common Main House Ground rod?Have to run long wire.
3.One at the Point of Entry from the grounding block to the Main House Ground?(In my case the cable comes under my underpinning.)Again have to run a wire.
Up to 4 actually; 2 or 3 exterior, 1 interior.
1. GND screw on transmitter to bare metal contact on antenna bracket (this is technically a "bonding wire"). Typically 14ga stranded. I personally prefer copper mesh bonding strap. Note: this is optional on 100% metal configuration, mandatory for non-metallic dish
2. Mounting arm or polemount to structure's approved common ground, typically 10ga solid copper.
3. Cable block to structure's approved common ground, typically 10ga solid copper
4. approved AC ground for modem power adapter, typically pre-wired. No 2-to-3 wire adapters permitted.Since the most typical installations already have an approved common ground, supplemental ground rod are seldom necessary. If a ground rod is in fact required, it's no longer a standard installation.

//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23003138 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:08:21 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002926 I'll be back later to check on this thread.I need to mow my yard and take a few more pics of my setup. :)
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002926 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:33:38 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002916 Yeah its completely metal.

So you need 3 grounds then?
1.On the Feed arm+Dish+Pole to a seperate Ground rod? 8 ft Ground rod
2.One from the Transmitter?To common Main House Ground rod?Have to run long wire.
3.One at the Point of Entry from the grounding block to the Main House Ground?(In my case the cable comes under my underpinning.)Again have to run a wire.
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002916 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:31:52 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002897
The conduit you see behind it is the install for my 7000 it was done by a defense contractor and is fully inside of conduit all the way from the dish until it goes thru the wall into the house. The difference between guys that know what they are doing and those that don't.

The original install also left the bolts on the adjusting mount loose.

These are some pics I sent to hughes telling them what a good job their installer did. It has all been fixed but I had to do it myself.
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9000 spaceway III, 7000S SatMex 5 990, Dlink wirless
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002897 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:27:53 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002801 said by tobicat:

Yea Greg the 9000 are all metal and the original ones like mine are really flimsy. They warn you not to do a push pull test cause you will bend the silly thing.
What'd they do, take a dish from the DirecTV parts bin?

//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002801 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:13:17 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002792 --
9000 spaceway III, 7000S SatMex 5 990, Dlink wirless]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002792 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:11:39 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002753 said by Tweakbl:ground wire comes off the transmitter then to the rod that it would be correct?
That's interesting, I've never yet seen a standard Direcway/HughesNet reflector that was solid metal. DirecTV yes, but ain't run across a metal internet dish yet. That said, I'm still in the Ku-band world. But can you actually stick a magnet on the dish, down where the feedarm attaches? If yes, that makes it even more complicated for installers to figure out how to ground which configuration.

But regardless, it's still improper to ground the feedarm/dish/pole to the cable block. Anyway you cut it, that's intermingling signal and electrical grounds. The other thing is that a ground rod at the base of the pole is redundant, since NEC requires that it be bonded to common ground anyway. Given that a simple run of approved ground wire between the pole and common is all that's called for, the rod itself represents unnecessary work and expense.

//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002753 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:05:29 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002671
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My dish and pole and the whole works is all metal,I thought that since the transmitter housing is metal,the feedarm is all metal and the dish and bracket is all metal and the ground wire comes off the transmitter then to the rod that it would be correct?
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002671 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:51:54 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002629 said by tobicat:

Hmmm 5.7X28 you guys planning on holding up a few armored cars or what.
Aframe's supposition is a little closer. The article under discussion is basically a big bucks .twenty two on steroids.

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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002629 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:44:56 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002534 said by tobicat:

Hmmm 5.7X28 you guys planning on holding up a few armored cars or what.
I thought for a while that it was needed to get the installer to ground the system :) :)
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HN9000/Spaceway III,74m/1w,Elite package,XP Pro,]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002534 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:27:06 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002496 --
9000 spaceway III, 7000S SatMex 5 990, Dlink wirless]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002496 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:19:34 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002218 said by Tweakbl:

If I understand correctly....is this a proper grounding for this system?Close, but no cigar. The TRIA electronics are isolated from their housings, so they seek ground via the cable shield. That's a given. But in the case of non-metallic dishes, the feedarm (a potential lightning rod) is electrically isolated. Since the metal TRIA housings are bolted to the metal feedarm, a bond between the metal GND screw and the metal antenna bracket defeats that isolation. Static from the feedarm goes to the bracket - by default to the pole - down the ground wire (when attached) - to an authorized common ground.

In the case of your photo example, only the feedarm appears to be connected to (presumably) a common ground. But the pole itself remains isolated, grounded only by whatever contact it may make with dry concrete and a couple feet of dirt. In dry conditions, that's meaningless. The most technically correct (and safest) way is to bond the GND screw to the antenna bracket - which by contact is grounded to the pole. Then ground the pole with approved wire to the designated common ground.

The grounding FSB has been uploaded to this site many times, you should be able to find it with a simple search. If you strike out, I'll email you a copy.

said by Tweakbl:

How well does the FN Five Seven fit in the hand?
Very conventionally. For comparison purposes, I'm ~6'/200#. Most size L gloves are tight on me - more often than not I buy XL. And the weight is astounding; 590g dry, 802g wet.

//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23002218 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:35:49 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23001983
-Hughesnet requires the installer to take pics of the install and I did sign a paper.I thought that since the dude installing had to take pics that this was a verification of sorts.
-I read the installation manual part about what they are required to provide in between the above posts.You are correct.They do not provide a ground rod,but the probably should.IMO :)
-I probably will complain to support,as I think I see what your saying about the signal being grounded and the cable having a separate ground
-Where does one download the Hughes FSB (field service bulletin) 050518D (or current)?Is it at the Knowledge base?

If I understand correctly....is this a proper grounding for this system?
[att=1]

How well does the FN Five Seven fit in the hand?I have rather large hands and need a full grip or it feels like I would drop most pistols.That is one Bad gun.Armor piercing in a hand held package.
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked
Click for full size
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23001983 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:58:03 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23001719 said by Tweakbl:

Hughesnet signed off on the install
The installer never showed up with a grounding rod and there is no way in hell I am buying one when they said it is free installation.
the installer told me it was ok to mount the grounding cable block on the pole
If grounding is such a big issue then why does Hughesnet not stand behind the work?
- Explain how you feel "Hughesnet signed off on the install". That makes no sense.
- for standard installs, the installer is only required to provide up to 100' or approved grounding wire. Nowhere is it written that he or Hughes provides a grounding electrode (rod) as part of the standard installation.
- Dead simple, the installer was wrong
- they will. Complain to tech support. If you present a convincing argument, they'll eventually get an installer out there to fix it. But first it helps if you know what you're talking about . I suggest at a minimum that you read the grounding section of your installation manual. The installers have much more detailed instructions. They're bound by Hughes FSB (field service bulletin) 050518D (or current) as consistent with national/state/local electrical codes. Photos help, and yours should justify a free service call to remedy your grounding errors.

If I was closer, I'd just come over and help you fix it yourself.

By the way, I just bought a new FN Five SeveN (USG). Have you had a chance to play with one of those yet?

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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23001719 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:10:40 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23001349 Plus you state much technical specs.I know you have stated else where that you (grohgreg) have years of experience in Satellite communications.I respect that,but have to ask if what you state above is in the Hughesnet installation guide lines or from personal experience?
I will simple state it like this.No consumer based Installation of satellite equipment that I have ever seen has had a separate ground running from the dish to the Junction Box/Outside drop.Now I am not an expert nor a installer.
However I am experienced in electrical wiring.It seems redundant to me to have a Ground at the Dish/pole,a ground at the house and linking the one at the house to the junction box Main ground.
Also Grohgreg,did you help design the HN9000?I ask this because every piece of tech equipment I have ever seen has had a "common" ground.The HN9000 is in essence a "fancy" PC.The motherboard on the HN9000 common grounds to the wall outlet.Just like a power supply does in a computer.

One other thing,if the grounding has to pass code but it actually would not,shouldn't Hughesnet stand responsible for crappy installation techniques?I mean if they contract a installer and that installer does it wrong and my house burnt down,they would be responsible.

So your saying,
-don't mount the ground block on the pole due to risk of lightning running in along the cable to the modem?
-ground the Dish+Arm+Transmitter at the pole with a 8 ft grounding rod then also run a seperate length of electric wire to the MAIN grounding rod of the house?
-I should Cut my cable where it enters the house,to install the grounding block?
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My problem with the whole thing is this.
-Hughesnet signed off on the install
-The installer never showed up with a grounding rod and there is no way in hell I am buying one when they said it is free installation.
-the installer told me it was ok to mount the grounding cable block on the pole
-If grounding is such a big issue then why does Hughesnet not stand behind the work?
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23001349 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:09:40 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23001063 signal ground with electrical ground. To be safe and effective, they must be isolated until reaching the common ground via separate paths. Besides, both the NEC and Hughes clearly specify that the block belongs where the cable passes through the structure.

The modem is NOT "grounded at the Electric Wall Plug with the Green/Earth Ground.(Three Prong Plug)". Only the AC side of the power brick is grounded there. The modem itself is strictly a DC device, and is grounded - via cable shielding - through the cable block . The modem then provides DC power for the TRIA electronics - via the cable center conductor. The TRIA in turn sees ground - via the cable sheathing - through the cable block. This configuration is designed to provide equal ground potential to both modem and TRIA. Understand that's strictly signal ground.

Hooking the GND bond wire directly to the cable block is another no-no. Correct path is transmitter GND screw to antenna bracket - then polemount to common ground. That's the electrical ground. Different animal. Your wiring shortcut cross-circuits signal and electrical grounds, now causing dissimilar signal ground potential between modem and TRIA electronics . You've also provided a direct path for lightning to ride the cable sheathing - straight into the back side of your modem.

A 4' ground rod is neither approved (by either Hughes or the NEC) nor effective. Neither is a "a freaking metal pole 2 feet in the ground.". Nor does the combination represent an approved ground either. And not bonding any supplemental ground electrode to the structure's common ground is another code violation.

//greg//
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HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23001063 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:20:31 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23000758 Mine is grounded at the Dish.The cable then runs underground to my House and then plugs/screws into the modem.The Modem (HN9000) is grounded at the Electric Wall Plug with the Green/Earth Ground.(Three Prong Plug).Which in turn is grounded to your Breaker/junction box.

Here is some pics of my dish's wires.
[att=1]
The Small black wire is the ground wire to the grounding rod.
I used a 4 ft Grounding rod,the type for electric fence chargers and such.Keep in mind also you have a freaking metal pole 2 feet in the ground.
The type of coaxial cable the installer used had a ground attached to it and it continues on up to the dish.

[att=2]
See the little black wire,thats the ground down to the ground block,then continues to the grounding rod.

I have seen it stated that you need a wire to your Breaker box/Junction Box grounding rod.I thought that it is silly to do so and over kill,at least in my installation's case.The system is grounded by the 3 prong plugin at the wall and by the grounding rod at the pole with a seperate grounding rod.

Edit* Forgot to mention my HN9000 is 85ft away from the dish.There are no breaks in the cable between the grounding block and the modem.
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Heavily Armed and Easily Provoked
Click for full size
The Grounding Block
Click for full size
The LNB
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23000758 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:27:15 EDT Re: [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23000744 [HN7000S] Am I grounded?

//greg//]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-HN9000-Grounding-question-23000744 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:24:12 EDT [HN9000] Grounding question http://www.dslreports.com/forum/HN9000-Grounding-question-23000472
So last weekend I purchased an 8' ground rod and ran a #6 solid copper electrical wire that I had laying around from the grounding lug on the dish mounting assembly down to the new rod. He didn't interrupt the data cable with a grounding block before the cable enters the house either. So I'll get some connectors and a grounding block and run that ground wire back to the new ground rod too. It would a big job for me to connect the new ground to the houses existing electrical service ground (opposite ends of a large house). How big a deal is not doing so?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/HN9000-Grounding-question-23000472 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 08:23:21 EDT