jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA | reply to kw
Re: College Football
A cool site that shows detailed public financial numbers for most colleges can be found at the following link.
»www2.indystar.com/NCAA_financial_reports/ |
|
dogma
Premium
join:2002-08-15
Boulder City, NV
| That is a great find. I was $10 Million heavy on THE Ohio State University, just a paltry $90 Million/year, not $100 Million.
Really supports my assertions. Look at perpetual conference cellar-dweller in almost every sport since the inception of the BCS, Texas A&M. Every year, they get a $10 Million disbursement from the Big 12 conference as their share of TeeeVeee rights and bowl game proceeds. Compare to Marshall, who gets $1 Million. Marshall spends 25 cents of every dollar on scholarships. Texas A&M? 9 cents on scholarships.
said by kw  :said by shaner : I thought Athletic Departments were funded by the school. Right...but only to an extent. From what I understand (and could be wrong) is that the AD is hired by the school, paid by the school, but the Athletic Dept. is its own entity so ticket sales and things of the like pay the coaches salary. Pretty sure the general fund of the University never sees a dime of Ticket Sales/Promotions/etc... And yes, from my understanding and experience, the Athletic department is generally its own entity (as evidenced by jmn1207 's link). Apparently with their own set of books as well. Somehow, Ohio State barely breaks even on $90 Million. Must be the 10% they set aside for athletic scholarships.
Coaches and staff (and private jets) are hired and paid for from that budget at the Directors pleasure. However, the general school fund can charge back expenses to the Athletic Dept. in a "creative" way. Traffic control, tutoring, etc. |
|
aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to dogma
said by dogma :Like I said, we can argue opinions till the cows come home. If TCU never gets a chance to give Florida a whuppin', we will never know...will we? Can you go for this?: 16-TEAM Playoff
Just like in what used to be Division I-AA, the tournament would feature four rounds with teams seeded one through 16. Just like the wildly popular and profitable NCAA men's basketball tournament, champions of all the conferences (all 11 of them) earn an automatic bid to the field.
I always love when dogma agrees with me.
There's so much more money to be had by everyone with a playoff. Preseason polls would go the way of the dinosaur and the dodo bird, and the SEC/XII fan bois can leave their jibber jabber at the door and see if their teams actually deserve to play for a championship by their performance on the field. I just hope it happens in my lifetime...
--
.:|:. Go Wheatley or Go Home! |
|
Koil
Premium
join:2002-09-10
West Columbia, SC
clubs: | I think the 8 team playoff scenario would be better, but I'll take either. Lets just get it going, its way past time. |
|
aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to KickMe
said by KickMe :Further, although I favor a playoff, I know there is a downside that is not mentioned much. The sites that host the bowls depend on out of state fans coming into the community and spending big money. And many of us sacrifice to go to a bowl so that we can enjoy a holiday and support our team. However very few fans would be able to follow their team to each playoff location, and I think you would be surprised at the empty seats in some of these stadiums and the lack of revenue generated for the cities involved. I have to disagree on the downside. Look at the schedule for this year's coming bowl schedule. With the conference champions in a playoff, a 2nd place team from these conferences can still put together some good matchups for these bowl games and bowls can still exist and thrive in a playoff environment. Just like the NCAA still holds the NIT tournament every year durning march madness, I think fans will continue to follow their teams regardless if its a home playoff game, a game at a pre-determined site, or if they just happen to settle for a bowl game...
--
.:|:. Go Wheatley or Go Home! |
|
aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA
·Verizon FIOS
2 edits | reply to Koil
said by Koil :I think the 8 team playoff scenario would be better, but I'll take either. Lets just get it going, its way past time. It can only work with all conference champions or why even bother.
In dogma's other thread we pretty muched hashed it out - It's actually a pretty good read with me and Coach going back and forth, I have quite a few posts in there making my case for a playoff:
»How would you create a NCAA Football Playoff system?
As touched on in one of those posts, it would seriously level the playing field for college football and provide parity similar to the NFL. As smaller schools and conferences get access to revenue that is equally shared they will have the opportunity to build better facilities and offer more scholarships and get access to top talent. Think about all the talent on the sidelines of the elite schools, kids who are backups or riding pine just waiting for an opportunity to crack the starting lineup, there's a heck of a lot of talent out there that never gets the playing time. Just imagine if they were at some of these mid majors because they know that they have the same chance of playing for a championship if they can win their conference and get into the playoffs.
»Re: How would you create a NCAA Football Playoff system?
»Re: How would you create a NCAA Football Playoff system?
--
.:|:. Go Wheatley or Go Home! |
|
jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Koil
said by Koil :I think the 8 team playoff scenario would be better, but I'll take either. Lets just get it going, its way past time. It won't happen in the foreseeable future. The staggered TV contracts make it difficult for negotiations to take place that would even allow for any type of playoff discussion. There are multi-year endorsement obligations and advertising agreements that all come up at different times for each of the current BCS bowl games. They would need to be in sync to have a chance at a drastic format change that a playoff system would create.
Probably even a bigger stumbling block is the guaranteed money that the major conferences currently enjoy under the existing BCS system. If those enormous contributions are threatened to be distributed more fairly, the major conferences will never be on board. You are asking the major conferences, and the biggest schools, to give up a considerable amount of money and control. This is not likely to happen, as we continue to see proof of this each season that we go without any type of playoff system. |
|
aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA
·Verizon FIOS
| said by jmn1207 :It won't happen in the foreseeable future. The staggered TV contracts make it difficult for negotiations to take place that would even allow for any type of playoff discussion. There are multi-year endorsement obligations and advertising agreements that all come up at different times for each of the current BCS bowl games. They would need to be in sync to have a chance at a drastic format change that a playoff system would create. Probably even a bigger stumbling block is the guaranteed money that the major conferences currently enjoy under the existing BCS system. If those enormous contributions are threatened to be distributed more fairly, the major conferences will never be on board. You are asking the major conferences, and the biggest schools, to give up a considerable amount of money and control. This is not likely to happen, as we continue to see proof of this each season that we go without any type of playoff system. You can keep the current bowl system in place with a playoff and let the contracts expire out. Just like the BCS, if the top team is playing for the championship then the bowl takes the 2nd place team from the conference or a different BCS ranked team. After the first year of a playoff no one will want a BCS/Bowl system... 
--
.:|:. Go Wheatley or Go Home! |
|
jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| There is another option that has been gaining popularity that would allow for all teams to have a reasonable amount of control over their own destiny. At least a dominant mid-major team would have a chance to prove themselves, and situations that happened like last year with Oklahoma and Texas would be played out on the field.
»www.bcsplayoff.org
Check out this BCS Playoff system as it would have been applied in past seasons.
»www.bcsplayoff.org/bcs_playoff_a···_seasons
It's not perfect, but it is doable, and certainly more viable than the current mess that passes for a college football championship. |
|
aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA
·Verizon FIOS
| Any system that incorporates the existing BCS is lipstick on a pig. The system needs to be overhauled...
Lame:
+1
Top 4 BCS
Top 8 BCS
Heavily biased human preseason polls
--
.:|:. Go Wheatley or Go Home! |
|
jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| I believe this proposition to be realistic, while a major overhaul would be idealistic, and not likely to ever come to fruition. Baby steps forward is preferred to standing still or going backwards. Again, it's all about money and power, with little regard to fairness. |
|
aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA
·Verizon FIOS
| said by jmn1207 :I believe this proposition to be realistic I couldn't disagree more. The BCS was instituted with a snap of the fingers, it could just as easily go away.
»www.collegeplayoffs.com/so.htm
»www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/09/···dex.html
»www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xp···h111-390
--
.:|:. Go Wheatley or Go Home! |
|
dogma
Premium
join:2002-08-15
Boulder City, NV
2 edits | reply to jmn1207
said by jmn1207 :I believe this proposition to be realistic, while a major overhaul would be idealistic, and not likely to ever come to fruition. Baby steps forward is preferred to standing still or going backwards. Again, it's all about money and power, with little regard to fairness. Look at it another way: Money speaks.
Next NCAA broadcast contract(s). 114 teams in D1 football. New contract: 6 years, $10.2 Billion. Each D1 team share is equal. $15 Million/year revenue. More than any school currently gets. 16 team playoff. 1 title game.
Because each team is now flush, no need to have a 12 or 13 game season...which they only do to get more revenue anyway. 9 game seasons + conference championship where required.
How to sell it to the networks (because you won't need to sell it to the schools, it sells itself): Currently the NCAA has a $6 Billion/6 year NCAA basketball deal, so the numbers are well in line. Right now, the NCAA is only tapping into about half the potential NCAA-F audience. BCS teams currently enjoy great viewership. Now add 50% more viewers/eyeballs from non-BCS fans who almost never get to see their teams on Saturday. Who now think their teams have a shot at a national title. ESPN2-9 are now profitable broadcasting every game.
NCAA title game would eclipse Super bowl. Yep. All fans, now 120 Million of them, would tune in. $2 Million bonus to each school that plays in a playoff game, Extra $4 Million to title winner who can max out at $20 Million for the year. They should have the title game the Saturday before the Superbowl, and make the weekend a shadow national holiday. Teams that don't make the playoffs are free to play in existing bowl games and cut their own deals like they do now...all 37 of them. Now 33% of all 114 schools can participate in a post season.
Moreover, there will be major movement by schools between conferences, as parity removes the profit motive to be in an so-called elite conference.
aztecnology is oh-so correct about parity. Parity has made the NFL the worlds wealthiest sports entertainment product. NFL fans don't care who's playing in the Superbowl, because they are both fans of their favorite teams, and fans of the competition. The Saints will probably play the Broncos this year, and it will set another viewership record. The NBA and NHL on the other hand continue to push big market "elite" teams, and they are almost broke. Only 9 million viewers for a NBA championship vs. 100 Million for a Superbowl.
Put $10 or $12 billion on the table, and see if we don't have a NCAA-F playoff next fall. |
|
jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to aztecnology
A hurricane can do billions of dollars of damage in 12 hours, yet we can't fix everything that was destroyed within a similar time period. I don't have a lot of faith that those currently in control are going to relinquish their hold on the current BCS system, otherwise we would have already seen a change. The current BCS system may have been created overnight, but it created an even more biased and top-heavy distribution of money than the bowl system it replaced. There is no going backwards.
It might not be impossible, but it's right up there with getting Congress to vote themselves a significant salary decrease. There are simply way too many powerful entities involved, it's not just about the conferences and their athletic departments. The financial stability that the BCS brings in has allowed for numerous contracts, endorsements, and guarantees, not seen up front, that make change very difficult, regardless of how quickly the system was implemented. |
|
jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | reply to dogma
said by dogma :NCAA title game would eclipse Super bowl. Yep. All fans, now 120 Million of them, would tune in. You have to be kidding? Even in the US alone, no college championship game, no matter how intriguing it might seem, has ever come close to matching a Superbowl in viewer ratings. Look at the top 45 rated prime time TV show of all time.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mo···-2008.29
Edit: Look, I'm not saying the current BCS system is right, I just don't think the major conferences are going to abandoned guaranteed money for any system that puts that money at risk depending on their teams' success on the field. Not only that, but it opens the door for smaller conferences and schools to obtain enough money to keep them very competitive, which makes it even more difficult for the juggernauts to take in the lion's share. There is no way the current system is going away in favor of a system that evens things out financially and creates parity in the quality of the opponents. Sure, it's what the fans want, it's what the players want, but it's not what the bean counters want, and the beans talk louder than anything else.
|
|
dogma
Premium
join:2002-08-15
Boulder City, NV
1 edit | 
NBA viewers = Losers | 
NFL viewers = Winners! |
Remember, this is a sales pitch. I would present the info above, one pulled from your link. I would show how the NFL, with 32 teams draws almost 100 Million viewers to their title game. In contrast, I will show how the NBA is nothing more than a warmed over version of roller derby, or WWF. Just 9.5 Million viewers in 2003.
Why? Because of parity. The NBA has only had 6 teams win titles of the last 28 out of 30 finals. It's basically fixed. Only the "elite" market teams are allowed to win. Only fans who are celebrity cultist watch the NBA. Look at their pathetic viewership. If the NCAA continues to go down the "elitist BCS" road, they too will wind up like the sorry NBA.
The NFL, our new model, is successful because real fans crave true competition, AKA parity. And instead of just 32 teams like the NFL, we will present 114 teams. Thus creating a sports entertainment product that can be even larger than the NFL.
Brilliant!
Edit: In response to your edit.
Look, Even though Troy now gets $15 Million, Ohio State with all of their "other" revenue streams will still have $100 Million to play with. The big boys will remain big for a while. But we have at least solved the little guys, and their scholarships getting the short end of the financial stick. |
|
Edge1
Workin' Ta Live
Premium
join:2006-03-01 | reply to Edge1
Go Penn State! |
|
rockotman
...Blown On The Steel Breeze
Emerging Research
join:2000-08-06
DSotM
clubs: | For once, I agree with you. I hate Rich Rodriguez after what he did to the WVU program, and I ain't even WVU fan. |
|
Edge1
Workin' Ta Live
Premium
join:2006-03-01
1 edit | Well there's a first time for everything.
I'm no Rich-Rod fan. |
|
Edge1
Workin' Ta Live
Premium
join:2006-03-01 | reply to Edge1
PSU looking pretty uninspired. |
|
