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AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
reply to azzonie3

Re: I think Qwest is blocking YOUTUBE

said by azzonie3:

Every major isp here on DSLReports.com has threads complaning about youtube, but it certainly could not be a youtube problem, right?
Apparently providing such information is isn't the answer that is being looked for, so the looking continues.
--
I'm not a tax dodger, I'm a potential cabinet appointee!


caffeinator
Coming soon to a cup near you..
Premium
join:2005-01-16
WA, USA
kudos:4
reply to skriefal

said by skriefal:

Looks like your ISP (Tierpoint) has a direct connection to Google's network. So it's probable that you'll encounter very few -- if any -- issues with Youtube or other Google-operated sites.
Yeah, Webband is just the consumer ISP wing of Tierpoint.

They have serious connectivity though...Qwest is only one of them.

quote:
»www.tierpoint.com/data_center/co···vity.php

Multiple Providers/Redundant & Diverse Routes

We provision bandwidth and connectivity from multiple providers, including AT&T, Qwest, Global Crossing, Savvis, Time Warner, Integra, XO Communications, Columbia Fiber, SGN, Pacific Northwest GigaPOP, 360 Networks, NoaNet, One Eighty Networks, and others. Most of these providers are setup on physically diverse paths. This insures your business service without disruptions.

I pay extra over the PFL $30-odd bucks for my Qwest bill, but it's well worth it. I know it doesn't help the OP, but just providing some perspective.

-Caff
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My 9/11 Tribute..online since 9/14/01
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smokestack00

join:2009-04-14
reply to AthlGrond

I dont care who's problem it is. If its a Youtube problem, a Qwest problem or a backbone problem somewhere, it doesnt matter to me. All I know is that the internet connection Im paying for wont load 30% of the Youtube videos I try to play. People I know with different internet providers are not having this problem.

I understand that Youtube has problem with all ISP's from time to time, but this isnt a random intermittent problem. This has been a constant everyday problem going on for almost 2 months.

The only answer Im hearing, is that if you have Qwest and are having problems loading Youtube, you are out of luck as no one can do anything about it. You are stuck with it. Switching providers is the only way to fix it.



AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO

said by smokestack00:

The only answer Im hearing, is that if you have Qwest and are having problems loading Youtube, you are out of luck as no one can do anything about it. You are stuck with it. Switching providers is the only way to fix it.
You do have my sympathies that it isn't working at all correctly for you.

What I was hearing in the post I replied to is: "Here is something you can try if you don't want to switch providers. Oh, and switching provers may not solve the problem in any case."

/shrug
--
I'm not a tax dodger, I'm a potential cabinet appointee!


caffeinator
Coming soon to a cup near you..
Premium
join:2005-01-16
WA, USA
kudos:4

3 edits

It's been stated, but I guess people can't get the concept that after your packets leave the ISP's network, anything can and will happen to them in the wild-west of Internet routing.

Some ISP's just have setup better peering deals with other carriers for network transport than others...

Try tracing youtube.com and then it's IP...I bet you get two different traces.




Why? Hell if I know. They have so many servers and massive dynamic internal routing it's insane...who knows what you'll hit from one minute to the next.

Before being bought by Google, I had a lot less issues with YT. Now to login, I have to allow cookies from like 3 domains...ugh.

Oh, check this if ya curious about Qwest's network: »stat.qwest.net/index_flash.html

According to that, the Portland TeraPOP is doing fine.

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NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to FenixSucks

said by FenixSucks:

... what do you get on »www.geoiptool.com? It tells me my region is "Vancouver, WA"
What does a geolocator service have to do with the price of tea in China?

Interesting that the site you linked locates me in Hercules, California, despite that the actual connection host name includes the city code for Pleasanton, California (where the aggregation router is located). I am not in either city.

You have issues, obviously; but now you are thrashing around.

Does your Youtube connection hang on that 's.ytimg.com' host? I haven't got farther through the thread, yet, so pardon me if you've finally done it. How about a trace route to that host?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to FenixSucks

said by FenixSucks:

YouTube is everything. Without YouTube, internet is only half the fun.

THANK YOU Qwest for not really addressing the matter.
Tier 1 and Tier 2 support are geared to troubleshooting DSL transport problems between the CPE and the DSLAM; and, maybe, to the aggregation router. They are pretty useless for dealing with transit issues beyond the edge of the network.

Unfortunately, I don't know of a "looking glass" check for Google transit. Qwest offers one, and that let me look at both forward, and reverse path between my (ATTIS) Internet connection, and a Qwest LG server.

Forward path (me to Qwest):
09/23/09 11:33:33 Slow traceroute sea-engr-01.inet.qwest.net
Trace sea-engr-01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.26.253) ...
192.168.0.1     RTT:   0ms TTL:170 (suzuka.aosake.net ok)
69.110.151.254  RTT:   9ms TTL:170 (adsl-69-110-151-254.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net ok)
76.246.22.130   RTT:   9ms TTL:170 (No rDNS)
69.220.8.95     RTT:   8ms TTL:170 (No rDNS)
12.122.114.17   RTT:  10ms TTL:170 (ggr7.sffca.ip.att.net fraudulent rDNS)
192.205.36.2    RTT:  11ms TTL:170 (No rDNS)
67.14.1.194     RTT:  32ms TTL:170 (sea-core-01.inet.qwest.net fraudulent rDNS)
205.171.26.46   RTT:  32ms TTL:170 (sea-svcs-01.inet.qwest.net fraudulent rDNS)
205.171.26.253  RTT:  32ms TTL:243 (sea-engr-01.inet.qwest.net ok)
 

Reverse path (Qwest to me):
Traceroute to aosake.net from sea-engr-01.inet.qwest.net
 
traceroute: Warning: ckecksums disabled
traceroute to aosake.net (69.110.149.255), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
 1  205.171.26.241 (205.171.26.241)  0.785 ms  1.612 ms  0.492 ms
 2  205.171.26.45 (205.171.26.45)  0.505 ms  1.584 ms  0.499 ms
 3  205.171.26.54 (205.171.26.54)  0.639 ms  12.016 ms  0.573 ms
 4  192.205.36.49 (192.205.36.49)  0.605 ms  0.642 ms  0.490 ms
 5  12.122.146.174 (12.122.146.174)  24.038 ms  23.785 ms  23.727 ms
 6  cr1.sffca.ip.att.net (12.122.28.33)  24.541 ms  24.713 ms  24.036 ms
 7  12.83.59.13 (12.83.59.13)  23.613 ms  23.609 ms  23.511 ms
 8  bb2-p10-1.snfcca.sbcglobal.net (70.245.63.238)  23.540 ms  23.614 ms  35.952 ms
 9  151.164.38.242 (151.164.38.242)  23.523 ms  23.472 ms  23.471 ms
10  151.164.93.230 (151.164.93.230)  23.505 ms  23.949 ms  23.567 ms
11  rback11-g1-0.pltnca.sbcglobal.net (64.164.107.35)  23.430 ms  23.629 ms  23.487 ms
12  * * *
13  * * *
 
Which is odd in one sense: My connection does respond to ICMP, so I don't know why Qwest isn't showing my DSL modem for the last hop.

I think it would be interesting to see a reverse path trace to a Google content server. Probably never happen, though.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


Back2Cable

@qwest.net
reply to FenixSucks

I am with qwest colorado and we have just noticed this within the last few days. Only happens with YouTube. Haven't tried Hulu.com yet, but all other sites that I have tried work just fine.



sommie

@qwest.net
reply to FenixSucks

I'm in Farmington, NM here and experiencing the same youtube issue as well. I have an iMac and a laptop running Vista experiencing the same problem. I've tried multiple youtube videos with about a 10% chance of them playing. Right now I can't even load the youtube main page which led me to do a google search to see if anyone else is experiencing the same problem. I am on a wireless network but same thing happens when plugged directly into the DSL modem. HULU and just about every other website works fine. Youtube is the only site I consistently have problems with. Either the main page won't load or the video webpage loads with either a blank black window where the vid supposed to be or the buffering icon.



lindyhopper

@qwest.net
reply to FenixSucks

same exact thing is happening to me in santa fe, nm. youtube was working sporadically and is not working at all. i really do think qwest is blocking youtube. they both confirm that they do this and then deny it. this is an illegal paradox. *sigh* really considering comcast at the moment.



soulsanctu

@qwest.net
reply to FenixSucks

Albuquerque here.....yt and qwest has not been working for several days....videos just spin and spin and dont play at all.....just changed my DNS settings as mentioned in previous posts....worked like a charm....videos playing smoothly now with no issues......



sommie

@qwest.net
reply to sommie

I updated the DNS server as well to OpenDNS and have no issues playing youtube videos so far. Everything seems to be working fine with DNS other than Qwest.



longstreet

join:2004-11-14
Plano, TX

2 edits
reply to clevere1

said by clevere1:

said by longstreet:

What, did you think Qwest owned all the web servers or something?
No need for personal attacks.
I agree, can you point out the one you're referring to? I'm asking if that's what you thought. I found nothing offensive about my question.

Why don't you try and lighten up?


longstreet

join:2004-11-14
Plano, TX

4 edits
reply to FenixSucks

said by FenixSucks:

I don't know if that's the server it's getting stuck at. The website being loaded as a video loads changes from ytimg to cache.whatever.whatever, so I can only fetch the link from the ones that stay on long enough to manually see it in status bar on bottom.

For the videos that DO NOT work, all I know is that: me-Qwest-(whatever)-YouTube doesn't work, but if I change Qwest with a different access point hooked up to a different ISP, it works.

That's the extent of my knowledge I'm not a network engineer.
Not every ISP is routed to the same address via the same network devices on the Internet.

Comcast might have a different route, that's why you have observed it working.

It may not even be a Qwest problem, but it may affect Qwest customers.

If a website / network router / line goes down, there's nothing you can do until the owner (which may not be Qwest) decides to fix the problem.

If you're not the owner, but your customer traffic uses that particular route, it's tough cookies.

Those kinds of lines are not easily switched, by the way . . . they can't just 'plug in Comcast' and fix your problem like you can in your residential area.

FenixSucks

join:2007-06-21
Leavenworth, WA
Reviews:
·CenturyLink

1 edit

It's not my responsibility. It's Qwest's to ensure they choose the proper path much like you expect package courier to deliver on time regardless of path they use.

Many couriers use partnership agreement. When you ship a package, but it is delayed, you ultimately get annoyed with the courier you used and you are likely not going to take "oh but our contract courier" or "contract airline messed up" that's why your ovenight package showed up in a week blah blah blah.

I pay for the service with an expectation of service. They are expected to make the path is paved and accessible.



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Except that routing to a destination is controlled by the destination, through BGP. If the destination BGP tables are FUBAR, they, not the source transit network, need to fix their problem.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum



mygosh

@qwest.net
reply to FenixSucks

Fenixsucks... It's not even the network path it could be INSIDE OF a particular google server farm or uplink they have with L3 etc...(since if it was just a peering link or other big link Qwest has --- everything would suck..correct? - Qwest serves multi-billion $ companies and the government with DIA which all share the same network...do you think they would complain a bit?)

So if iTunes sucks you blame Qwest.

If CNN loads slowly it's Qwest's fault.

If Pirate Bay disappears from the web somehow Qwest is blocking it?



longstreet

join:2004-11-14
Plano, TX

2 edits
reply to FenixSucks

What he expects is basically impossible. I know you guys realize this.

If you want guaranteed uptime, with a service level agreement, then you need a dedicated connection point to point with your destination, with an army of support people.

Unfortunatly, no ISP exists offering that kind of service at residential prices. The expression 'go fish' seems appropriate.

The regular internet is a best effort service that is influenced by outside factors even the best ISP can't promise to deliver what you expect.

Any ISP has problems like this, I can understand the frustration, but the internet is unfortunatly limited in this aspect by it's design.


TheMayor

join:2002-05-09
reply to FenixSucks

So lets say your expecting a package to be delivered, & a flood hits your area, so your saying that the courier better damn well rent a boat so your package gets delivered.

Or better yet.. Its Q's fault that you cannot connect to a website because the website itself was too much traffic or the website brought down the site to do maintainence.


cyclone_z

join:2006-06-19
Ames, IA
reply to mrhuggles

Re: YouTube excruciatingly slow, YouTube or Qwest?

said by mrhuggles:

its qwest, they have been throttling youtube for a while now, they admit it and deny it on a regular basis lol
Judging from posts like these, Qwest needs to get on this problem and figure out a solution. It's probably no fault of theirs, but their customers don't know what is going on and automatically assume Qwest is blocking youtube.


longstreet

join:2004-11-14
Plano, TX

quote -

quote:
You can't fix stupid


Skreemin

@qwest.net
reply to FenixSucks

Re: I think Qwest is blocking YOUTUBE

Yeah I'm suffering these same listed symptoms.
Only I've found what plays and what doesn't is completely erratic. IE: Some videos will play in the morning, and when come back to replay later day, no go. And vice versa IE; a video Wont load the first few times I try and then, all of sudden and for no apparent reason, will load. maybe once or twice... and then return to hanging

"You call Qwest support at your own sanity. The answer to everything is recycle the modem. They do not understand the meaning of "it is not working" and will continue to tell you to recycle the modem and assure you that your internet is at the speed it should be repeatedly until you get mad and hang up on them."

Couldn't have said it better myself...

I'm SO upset Comcast doesn't service my area, right now. I'm so over Qwest and will drop the service like a bad habit when the opportunity arises.

Pretty sure they throttle torrents too.
And service cripples out in bad weather.
And all the hidden taxes are Awesome. *rolleyes



Skreemin

@qwest.net
reply to FenixSucks

said by FenixSucks:

Update:
The issue only started recently. Connecting to a wireless access point other than my own resolves the issue, as does using Youtubeproxy.org

On my Qwest, it stalls at "Waiting for s.ytimg.com"

So, Qwest may not be specifically blocking the service, but the CSRs couldn't figure out the problem, they type like they're talking on an instant messenger between teens and generally, for what I pay, the quality of service fails to meet my expectations. That's the "Spirit of Service" there.
confirmed on my end,
proxy server work around is consistently successful.
wtf qwest?

knkayotte1

join:2001-02-02
Camp Verde, AZ

Last few days youtube has been working like poo for me as well.



Skreemin

@qwest.net
reply to FenixSucks

Re: Youtube/Qwest Fail!

oh and btw. I'm in Santa Fe, NM. seems to be a real common problem in this state. I know people from as far south as Las Cruces to Albuquerque to Santa Fe that are enduring this BS.

thankful to have the work around though.



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to Skreemin

Re: I think Qwest is blocking YOUTUBE

said by Skreemin :

confirmed on my end,
proxy server work around is consistently successful.
wtf qwest?
All that you have confirmed is that the route your packets take to Youtube is affecting your viewing of Youtube. If one of Qwest's peers is the cause, your proxy connection has effectively bypassed that peer.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
reply to FenixSucks

"Yeah I'm suffering these same listed symptoms.
Only I've found what plays and what doesn't is completely erratic. IE: Some videos will play in the morning, and when come back to replay later day, no go. And vice versa IE; a video Wont load the first few times I try and then, all of sudden and for no apparent reason, will load. maybe once or twice... and then return to hanging"
Either a server or router beyond the Qwest network having to do with youtube is overloaded. This has happened to other carriers. Someone already posted the Cox thread about slow youtube.
More people watch things at certain times of days. certain videos are encoded differently. There are many variable here. Not just Qwest. Think of how many others are trying to watch dumb things on youtube and it is a wonder they have any bandwidth, routers or servers left.


az_nemesis

join:2009-09-26

1 edit
reply to mrhuggles

Re: YouTube excruciatingly slow, YouTube or Qwest?

said by mrhuggles:

its qwest, they have been throttling youtube for a while now, they admit it and deny it on a regular basis lol
This is a huge concern for me. I have a 9yo autistic son. YouTube is where he spends almost all of his Internet time. He's obsessed with Disney and Nickelodeon. He watches videos for hours. If I pay for a service, I expect to get to use it as I see fit (within the bounds of legality, of course). Is this in their contract? Do they notify users of it at all? This reminds me of when MSN would block access to certain Usenet groups because it considered them immoral.

said by CenturyLink:

Contrary to the post, Qwest does not restrict or throttle these downloads.
I very much hope this is the case.

az_nemesis

join:2009-09-26

1 edit
reply to CenturyLink

Re: I think Qwest is blocking YOUTUBE

NM



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to az_nemesis

Re: YouTube excruciatingly slow, YouTube or Qwest?

said by az_nemesis:

If I pay for a service, I expect to get to use it as I see fit (within the bounds of legality, of course).
A.) All residential ISP service is on a "best effort" basis. If you need an SLA, you can get ISDN, T1, etc.

B.) Any residential ISP is at the mercy of the connectivity with the destination. Not all ISPs have a direct peering agreement with CDNs, and not all CDNs have direct peering with all ISP upstream providers. Any ISP relying on third party transit to a destination can run into problems when the destination transit network is choking for some reason.

So your ability to use your Internet connection is dependent upon a number of factors reflected by the "best effort" nature of low cost Internet access; not all of which are under your provider's control.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum