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tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
MVM
join:2008-01-16
Gilbert, AZ

tubbynet to xymox1

MVM

to xymox1

Re: [AZ] service during power outage ?

said by xymox1:

1) A local outage in my immediate area.
you will only lose power to devices that you don't have on backup. there are very few active devices along an hfc line. the most notable is one that converts the fiber to coax, but this is powered and has a battery backup.
2) A outage that effects my local CMTS and local distribution center
3) City wide power outage
4) State wide outage
because people who sign up for digital voice are using this service (or could potentially use this service) as a lifeline, cox is under the same voice regulations as your typical lec, such as qwest. the gear must stay up for certain periods of time and be under repair slas for uptime. at this point, i'm fairly certain that the holdout would be the battery in the emta unit, as this lasts for ~8-12 standby hours, a timeframe that surpasses the lengths of most outages. each of the components that deals with phone (similar to the "co" of a lec) is on generator to ensure uptime. these "co's" may or may not include cmts hardware (though it would make sense that they would).

an important point here is that the cmts units are not located in every neighborhood. these units more than likely serve several thousand customers (depending on the units involved, uplink and backplane capacity, and desired oversubscription ratio). more than likely, there are one or more cmts units centrally located to an area of the valley. i can't say for certain how cox handles their unit placement, as i am unaware of the cmts hardware and fiber routes being used.
since these units can be remote to the neighborhood, it is much easier to provide backup generation for each unit. however, i am unsure of the uptime of these units and if they are involved in digital voice. the cmts may pass the digital voice frequency to a dedicated pbx (similar to a dslam/pbx relationship for dsl) or the cmts may process the signal then downlink to a pbx for voice routing.
5) The big one. If we loose LA or SF can Cox Phoenix reroute if the Fiber optic lines that run along I-10 west are cut and MAE-West is offline ?
yes. simple bgp reroutes via different announced netblocks or by manually pushing the bgp path-attributes to the upstream providers.
I think Cox Phoenix is peering with Equinix Los Angeles (LA1).
one of the many peering points, but a single peer doesn't really matter.
your path through the internet is controlled by many different attributes that are controlled by your provider. depending on where you are wanting to go, the actual router will decide the path based on as-paths, communities, meds, local preferences, as well as a number of other different attributes set by the upstream provider (and honored by the local carrier), negotiated between carriers, or manually set by the local carrier. this is what makes the internet "dynamic".

q.

xymox1
Premium Member
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ
ARRIS SB8200
MikroTik CCR1036-8G-2S+

xymox1

Premium Member

-YES-

Now thats a answer !

Wow, thanks for such a great response

I believe you answered all the questions I had. I would still like to hear officially from one of the Cox reps here that my HSI will stay active during a power outage policy wise. I could see that legally they need to provide VoIP, but I dont think there is any legal need to provide HSI service.

I have one question tho. Lets say during the next storm power outage I loose internet service. Can I call and report this outage ? Is it a legit complaint and something I could get looked at even if I am not a VoIP subscriber ?

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
MVM
join:2008-01-16
Gilbert, AZ

tubbynet

MVM

said by xymox1:

but I dont think there is any legal need to provide HSI service.
you're right; they aren't.
I have one question tho. Lets say during the next storm power outage I loose internet service. Can I call and report this outage ? Is it a legit complaint and something I could get looked at even if I am not a VoIP subscriber ?
you could call it in. will it get you anywhere? probably not. as i said earlier, the cmts units may or may not be involved in the digital voice processing. if they aren't, then they may be powered down/put to standby in order to ensure that the power load is manageable to the generator.

of course, one has to ask himself - is 24/7 internet *really* that important?

q.

xymox1
Premium Member
join:2008-05-20
Phoenix, AZ
ARRIS SB8200
MikroTik CCR1036-8G-2S+

xymox1

Premium Member

you could call it in. will it get you anywhere? probably not. as i said earlier, the cmts units may or may not be involved in the digital voice processing. if they aren't, then they may be powered down/put to standby in order to ensure that the power load is manageable to the generator.

of course, one has to ask himself - is 24/7 internet *really* that important.
For businesses it would be. Cox does service large companies. Companies that would have substantial power backup facilities. So these questions DO make sense. Even for small buisnesses who have backup facilities. What good are your computers if you use increasing popular "cloud" applications that require the internet ?

I am running a computer that is connected to NOAA's EAS server. My computer then parses the info and passes emergency alerts to my Skytel Pager in near real time. The Skytel system is robust and designed for use in emergencies. This combined with my Ham radio background and RACES involvement makes it important that I can get NOAA alerts even during major emergencies that might involve power outages.

It would also be VERY useful during a major emergency to be able to use the internet to send email message and get good info on the event via the web.

So I am exploring how robust Cox HSI is for providing the internet connectivity I might need during a major event while operating in a RACES role.

I also have LEC ( Qwest ) analog modem service for this as well. I could also use a satellite link, but thats horribly expensive..

So there are very legitimate uses for high reliability HSI.

»www.usraces.org/

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
MVM
join:2008-01-16
Gilbert, AZ

tubbynet

MVM

said by xymox1:

For businesses it would be. Cox does service large companies. Companies that would have substantial power backup facilities.
ahhh, but you are comparing apples to oranges.
any company that has a big enough facility for backup isn't running their internet off a cable modem. they are using a fiber fed product, such as metro-e. this product has its own battery backup system that meets the customer's uptime needs. the more critical it is for the customer to have internet, the more they work with cox to ensure uptime in their facilities.
Even for small buisnesses who have backup facilities.
if you are running your internet off a cable modem, then the internet must not be critical to your needs. additionally, just because you have your computers on battery backups, doesn't mean that you have "backup facilities". usually, for a small business, if uptime is a requirement (say they are have an ecommerce site), they are outsourcing the hosting of the site to a vps or computer hosted in a datacenter. these datacenters have high uptime, the facilities to provide for backup, as well as sla's with internet facilities.
I am running a computer that is connected to NOAA's EAS server. My computer then parses the info and passes emergency alerts to my Skytel Pager in near real time. The Skytel system is robust and designed for use in emergencies. This combined with my Ham radio background and RACES involvement makes it important that I can get NOAA alerts even during major emergencies that might involve power outages.
but is this critical? does it affect you in a negative way when its down? again, you are asking for 100% uptime off a connection that you are paying $40-$60/month for. you *aren't* going to get it.
if its something that is critical for you to function, then i suggest that you either (a) host the "skytel" paging function offsite in a datacenter co-lo or using a vps or (b) spend the hundreds to thousands of dollars per month and get an sla'd line with a guaranteed uptime, even during power outages.
It would also be VERY useful during a major emergency to be able to use the internet to send email message and get good info on the event via the web.
again, is this *critical*? if it is (to you), then you are on the wrong internet service and must move to something that has an sla and a guarantee of uptime. for something like this, you would engage the business unit responsible for the sale and work with them on reliability and uptime during a power outage. when you recover from the sticker shock, you see why most people outsource something like that.

q.