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WhatNowPremium
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC | Watch your data rates go up. Let Skype build their own network. If the wireless companies lose the revenue from voice and SMS then look for the network to move to charging more for data. All these companies that game the system may win the battle and lose the war.
If the money is not there then the network will not be improved as fast and you will see the problems the iPhone usage caused to spread and your charges go up. | |
|  | | Re: Watch your data rates go up. In the end Networks are only a dumb pipe, eventually they will need to figure out how to survive this | |
| | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: Watch your data rates go up. And that will involve higher costs for everyone. This will not end well for consumers. | |
| | |  n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
 ·Optimum Online
| Re: Watch your data rates go up. said by openbox9:And that will involve higher costs for everyone. This will not end well for consumers. Why shouldn't the core Internet be any different than the delivery of electricity. For all intents and purposes, the power companies are "dumb pipes" that deliver electricity from the generating facility to the end user. They manage to survive and make a profit. The ISP's should be happy to be able to provide service at that point.
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
| | | |  C_Kill The SocialistsPremium
join:2001-03-19
kudos:3 | Re: Watch your data rates go up. said by n2jtx:said by openbox9:And that will involve higher costs for everyone. This will not end well for consumers. Why shouldn't the core Internet be any different than the delivery of electricity. For all intents and purposes, the power companies are "dumb pipes" that deliver electricity from the generating facility to the end user. They manage to survive and make a profit. The ISP's should be happy to be able to provide service at that point. electric companies charge by usage isp's dont 
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"and no matter how drunk you get .. don't lick the wall socket to test polarity..." | |
| | | | | brad
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON | Re: Watch your data rates go up. said by C_:electric companies charge by usage isp's dont A blanket statement and although that might be the case for your provider it is not true for many. | |
| | | | | |  en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: Watch your data rates go up. Exactly.
All companies want to have their cake and eat it to (i.e. cap/overages + bar access to 'competitors'). | |
| | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Are you discussing electric companies or ISPs when you state "not true for many"? | |
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| | | |  dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | said by C_:said by n2jtx:said by openbox9:And that will involve higher costs for everyone. This will not end well for consumers. Why shouldn't the core Internet be any different than the delivery of electricity. For all intents and purposes, the power companies are "dumb pipes" that deliver electricity from the generating facility to the end user. They manage to survive and make a profit. The ISP's should be happy to be able to provide service at that point. electric companies charge by usage isp's dont thats why they want metered billing!
metered billing has the isp CxO's creaming their jeans.
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
| | | | |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| said by C_:electric companies charge by usage isp's dont Even if ISP's move to this model, unlike Electricity, which has to be generated, bandwidth is very close to free with very minimal costs.
The problem is, of course, ISP's won't charge you anything near cost. It will be thousands of percent higher.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | | | | | | Re: Watch your data rates go up. said by KrK:bandwidth is very close to free with very minimal costs. [cough]...$800 per month for a T1 in my area. | |
| | | | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Watch your data rates go up. Very close to free in cost. Not in what is charged for it.
Bandwith is basically almost all fixed costs, IE, installation of capacity. The actual costs of the traffic is negligible, but of course the business model must price all off the overhead into the billing.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Watch your data rates go up. I pay $60 a month for five gigs of mobile data on a laptop access plan and five cents a meg beyond that. As long as what I am doing is not illegal, I should be able to use that anyway I want to.
Mobile wireless data for PCs is a dumb pipe and that is all I want it to be. I'm not picking the service for the best home page or who gives me the best way to shoot my modest data limit in their walled garden. I want the fastest connection I can buy with the lowest latency. If I'm sitting in a booth in Santa Fe, a hotel room in New York, or wherever and I want to connect my notebook into the my Asterisks system, why should they care? | |
| | | | | | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Watch your data rates go up. Exactly--- however, with mobile bandwidth, it's not quite the same as a wired connection, because there are real physical limits on the amount of bandwidth that can be squeezed from the available spectrum. However, having said that--- if a provider sells someone 5GB of data usage on a mobile, then that 5GB of data should be whatever the hell they (the user) want to use it for. Not limited by the provider's discretion to keep competitors and 3rd parties from being accessed.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | | | | | "bandwidth is very close to free with very minimal costs"
I will ask you this like I have asked everyone else who thinks this is true. Where is this almost free bandwidth? Please point it out and I will buy lots of it. If you can't show me where the almost free bandwidth is then stop saying this. | |
| | | | | | | | | Re: Watch your data rates go up. You obviously missed his point.
He is correct so I suggest you read the thread again to gain comprehension. | |
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| | | | bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA | And that's the problem. | |
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| | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | I'm not suggesting that ISPs can't be "dumb pipes". But I am suggesting that it will cost the end users a premium if that scenario should come about. Additionally, C_  has a valid point regarding the billing structure of utility companies. Are you ready for that from your ISP? | |
| | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Watch your data rates go up. It shouldn't if there was either 1) Proper regulation or 2) Real competition.
Problem is, we'll get option 3) Useless regulation combined with lack of competition with extreme barriers to entry tossed in on top as icing.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | | said by openbox9:And that will involve higher costs for everyone. This will not end well for consumers. This will not end well for ISPs either... | |
| | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: Watch your data rates go up. I'm willing to bet that it will end better for ISPs than for consumers  | |
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| | | | said by openbox9:And that will involve higher costs for everyone. This will not end well for consumers. Just how much compensation do the Telcos deserve for providing a "dumb pipe" service? Why should the rate payer pay any more than the cost of provision, maintenance and upgrades, plus a capped rate of return on investment similar to other utilities? Meanwhile, let true competition for value added services reign; no price fixing, no collusion to restrict service, and real improvements in customer service. Otherwise, nationalize it, and fund investment in, and adoption of, new technologies. Christ, we should get something for the billions we spend, not continually be told the technology is capable, but it isn't "profitable" to provide it at less than stellar rates of return. How long do we let the Telcos milk the cash cows, with little to show for it but ever stricter contractual terms for obsolete service. When cost of providing service goes down with the increasing capability, ubiquitousness acceptance, and constantly improving utility/necessity of the technology, why don't the retail prices follow? Instead, we have Telcos trying to be content providers, restricting access to competitors, overvaluing core services already paid for, and gouging for additional capabilities that cost little premium to provide. | |
| | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: Watch your data rates go up. said by ross:Just how much compensation do the Telcos deserve for providing a "dumb pipe" service? As much as they need to pay for all costs of doing business, enhancing their networks, and providing a solid return for the investors that spend billions of dollars to enable the companies to grow.said by ross:Why should the rate payer pay any more than the cost of provision, maintenance and upgrades, plus a capped rate of return on investment similar to other utilities? Emphasis mine. If the Internet needs to be regulated, then we can begin to discuss capping rates. Until then, it won't happen. BTW, I don't support outright regulating the Internet, but if I did, it would be to do it "Ma Bell style". But that gets rid of the competition that so many clamor for so I don't see it happening.said by ross:Meanwhile, let true competition for value added services reign; no price fixing, no collusion to restrict service, and real improvements in customer service. I assume you're discussing last mile with these comments? Otherwise, I believe we have this already. No doubt, last mile competition is hit or miss in several locations.said by ross:Otherwise, nationalize it, and fund investment in, and adoption of, new technologies. That would be my previous "Ma Bell style" regulation.said by ross:Christ, we should get something for the billions we spend, not continually be told the technology is capable, but it isn't "profitable" to provide it at less than stellar rates of return. What billions?said by ross:How long do we let the Telcos milk the cash cows, with little to show for it but ever stricter contractual terms for obsolete service. For as long as the majority of consumers aren't affected and continue throwing their money at the telcos that are doing the milking. So far, I haven't seen a mass exodus of customers voicing their concerns with their wallets. | |
| | | | | Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
| Re: Watch your data rates go up. For as long as the majority of consumers aren't affected and continue throwing their money at the telcos that are doing the milking. So far, I haven't seen a mass exodus of customers voicing their concerns with their wallets.
This is why I think we need some kind of Boycott website,
I think people are itching to do something, they just need a rallying point | |
| | | | | | | Just how much compensation do the Telcos deserve for providing a "dumb pipe" service? Why should the rate payer pay any more than the cost of provision, maintenance and upgrades, plus a capped rate of return on investment similar to other utilities? Meanwhile, let true competition for value added services reign; no price fixing, no collusion to restrict service, and real improvements in customer service. Otherwise, nationalize it, and fund investment in, and adoption of, new technologies. Christ, we should get something for the billions we spend, not continually be told the technology is capable, but it isn't "profitable" to provide it at less than stellar rates of return. How long do we let the Telcos milk the cash cows, with little to show for it but ever stricter contractual terms for obsolete service. When cost of providing service goes down with the increasing capability, ubiquitousness acceptance, and constantly improving utility/necessity of the technology, why don't the retail prices follow? Instead, we have Telcos trying to be content providers, restricting access to competitors, overvaluing core services already paid for, and gouging for additional capabilities that cost little premium to provide.
said by openbox9:As much as they need to pay for all costs of doing business, enhancing their networks, and providing a solid return for the investors that spend billions of dollars to enable the companies to grow... If the Internet needs to be regulated, then we can begin to discuss capping rates. Until then, it won't happen. BTW, I don't support outright regulating the Internet, but if I did, it would be to do it "Ma Bell style". But that gets rid of the competition that so many clamor for so I don't see it happening. I assume you're discussing last mile with these comments? Otherwise, I believe we have this already. No doubt, last mile competition is hit or miss in several locations. That would be my previous "Ma Bell style" regulation. What billions? For as long as the majority of consumers aren't affected and continue throwing their money at the telcos that are doing the milking. So far, I haven't seen a mass exodus of customers voicing their concerns with their wallets. No, I said the Telcos should be relegated to "dumb pipe" provider status, charged with the installation and maintenance of infrastructure, and prohibited from participating in any other business, excluding POTS, period. I think the Telcos should be either be consolidated, or forced to share facilities and other infrastructure, to eliminate areas of exclusive service, so everyone can eventually get Verizon-like FTTH, but with all content provided by others.
The Telcos quarterly and annual profits are measured in the multi-billions, and those billions are the result of price manipulation, price gouging, artificial constraint of resources and services, and anti-competitive marketing strategies. There is no place for disgruntled customers fed up with the Bells to go, other than to cable, where the same anti-competitive systemic structural problems are exploited in a similar manor toward a similar end. No one has a choice, other than which quasi-monopoly one prefers to be screwed by. Somehow, in this deregulated state I live in, I have to gaze longingly at the Verizon FTTH available 5 miles from me, while I wait indefinitely for AT&T to replace the aged and defective copper that has serviced my neighborhood for 70 years. Uverse? Dream on! That product is years away, and I live in an affluent community in the heart of Silicon Valley. Satellite provides my TV, and that ain't going to change, but NOTHING can be done to prod AT&T to fix my copper. I have COVAD, who provided me with an actual 4.5Mb/s x 502Kb/s ADSL service for five years, but recently AT&T stole my line pair, and the best I can get through COVAD now is 1.2Mb/s x 502Kb/s ADSL. I still pay for nominal 6Mb/s x 768Kb/s, and neither company will fix my service. Verizon fiber is less than five miles away (two years ago), but they can't run it to my area because AT&T has an exclusive competition area here. I take that back, because the nitpickers will say that I have access to cable VOIP; of course, at twice the price of Bell POTS service. Anyway, I say fuck AT&T and the slow, tired old horse they rode in on, and which they continue to flog as the best they can do.
It is a fact of life that former industry executives run regulatory agencies with dominion over their former employers, and that the Telco and the Cableco lobbyists are well funded from those billions in profits to obtain the most favorable (de)regulation money can buy.
SMS, and wireless data services pricing are a gargantuan consumer cluster fuck of an entirely different order. Needless to point out there is NO justification for the confiscatory rates demanded by the Bell dominated wireless market. Moreover, these dysfunctional service prices are an impediment to economic recovery.
If I have failed to articulate correctly the exact meaning I wished to convey, my apologies. However, I think you can get the gist of it. I pay and pay, but am no better off in terms of technology and/or services provided by Telcos than I was five years ago. I dropped three of the four POTS lines I had for most of thirty years at this time last year. I'm down to one AT&T POTS line with COVAD ADSL, and satellite TV. Not cheap, but the best price combo for the best of available services, except for my degraded ADSL service. Its a toss-up which I hate more, AT&T, COVAD, or COMCAST, because all three are over-priced, marginally acceptable service providers sharing equivalent faceless anti-consumer corporate bureaucratic persona.
That's my gripe, and I don't care if you shills don't like it. | |
| | | | | | bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA | Re: Watch your data rates go up. Seems to me if you're going to call people shills, that you should proudly wear the label of selfish whiner. However, let me ask you a question: What value does such labeling add to the discussion? | |
| | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | said by ross:No, I said the Telcos should be relegated to "dumb pipe" provider status, charged with the installation and maintenance of infrastructure, and prohibited from participating in any other business, excluding POTS, period. I didn't read that. Anyway, why should telcos be relegated to "dumb pipes"? If companies desire to offer services on their networks, they should be allowed to do so. What they should not be allowed to do is discriminate unfairly against competing products/services. Furthermore, if you're going to make them dumb pipes, why force POTS upon them?said by ross:I think the Telcos should be either be consolidated, or forced to share facilities and other infrastructure, to eliminate areas of exclusive service, so everyone can eventually get Verizon-like FTTH, but with all content provided by others. I don't necessarily disagree with sharing infrastructure so long as the network architectures allow efficient resource sharing and all pertinent parties are compensated appropriately.said by ross:SMS, and wireless data services pricing are a gargantuan consumer cluster fuck of an entirely different order. Needless to point out there is NO justification for the confiscatory rates demanded by the Bell dominated wireless market. Beyond that fact the consumers continue to give the bells more and more of their money. Price is driven by demand and what the consumers are willing to bear. So far, we haven't reached to breaking point of the consumers' backs.said by ross:Moreover, these dysfunctional service prices are an impediment to economic recovery. How did you draw that conclusion? | |
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| | | bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA | said by ross:Just how much compensation do the Telcos deserve for providing a "dumb pipe" service? How much are you willing to pay for it?
said by ross:Why should the rate payer pay any more than the cost of provision, maintenance and upgrades, plus a capped rate of return on investment similar to other utilities? Because we live in a capitalistic society. Because the owners of service providers are investing their hard-earned money to better provide for their families and their futures. Because society is not just about what consumerists want; it's a balance between that and what taxpayers want, and what investors want, and what employees want, and what communities want, etc.
said by ross:Meanwhile, let true competition for value added services reign; no price fixing, no collusion to restrict service, and real improvements in customer service. Amen. The government should let whoever thinks they can do better than the current service providers build their own networks and offer service, and should not tell any of the suppliers how to provide service.
said by ross:Otherwise, nationalize it, and fund investment in, and adoption of, new technologies. I agree. If people don't like what the current service providers are offering, then they should allocate new taxes to build a municipal network to compete with the commercial networks. Let's see which provides better service at a better price. | |
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1 edit | You gotta pay to play... Skype is net based and wireless data rates are too high to make this feasible. Data rates will drop as more people use it and that is the real wave of the future...affordable wireless data rates !! Still have to pay to use "the dumb pipe".
Are you saying they are blocking all Skype traffic ?? | |
| | | There are more and more shills on here every week. These companies only have networks because of the content on the internet, NOT their content. ...and the price of SMS is bordering on usary... I've never fallen for it... | |
| | | I can tell you my ISP charges 25 cents per gig over the cap, data is not free but its much cheaper than what your being charged, markp is in the thousands | |
| | | | Re: Watch your data rates go up. I liken it to the difference in price of "Data" CDs vs. "Music" CDs. An artificial pricing contrivance to pay for some perceived value-added that simply doesn't exist; and if it does, benefits no one in any measurable way except for the theoretical copyright holders who never loosen their stranglehold despite having been thusly compensated. Bushwah, in the end, is just bushwah. The emperor has no clothes, and the commonly abused ain't buying the official line so much, anymore. | |
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