The only thing I would disagree with your line-up there is the term "consumer 2-Way" and its placement on the list itself. It has no reason to be there. If they performed "as advertised" sure there would be millions of Last Mile homes with connections. Alas, it does not live up to their advertising so you get communities of disgruntled current and former customers.

said by grohgreg

Yet here you are now, extolling the merits of the 2009 SW20 - by attempting (poorly) to defame an antique. Just out of curiosity, at what point on the technological ladder was SkyWay in 1995? And I think you'd find it enlightening - surprising more likely - to research just how much "technology" the SW20 actually shares with the HN7000S.

Some folks actually invent stuff, and for that - they earn my respect. Others just buy stuff off the shelf and put their name on it. That's all fine and good. But among this latter group are the few who seem to (unwisely) want credit for what's inside........

//greg//
[/BQUOTE :



Let me be clear here, I believed in and was 100% committed and passionate about DirecPC when I worked for Apex Digital, Inc. and helped market to those 700+ homes which we connected (or did our best to connect). I loved the Hughes technology and their marketing Dept. Great people back in those days. Its the business model which upper management didn't like and I left due to the fact that I was not interested in selling satellite television anymore.

It didn't make sense then and it STILL doesn't today. You have to have a model which connects folks to dependable services which the tech can get in and get while making themselves a good living. It didn't so management decided to cease marketing for good reasons. Their investors can't possibly be happy. This segment is supposed to be at 5 million plus today and its barely scraping 1 million homes. Why?

Customer satisfaction. If the 2-Way systems were as great as you and birdman have been going on and on and on about, why hasn't it mirrored typical broadband penetration rates of 30% of the 20 Million un-served market?

Customer satisfaction.

As a professional in the satellite communications industry, I just can't market something that I DO NOT believe in, if I did, I would, but I don't!

I could have probably made a whole lot more money in this profession if I did -BUT- I have an ultimate goal here, IP-Multicasting.

I pushed and consulted with (to my knowledge) the first U.S. satellite IP-Multicast project with Hughes back in the early 00's. They then got rid of their entire marketing dept. and switched gears. When I hooked up with ISAT and then SES Americom bought into our platform I pressed and pressed and pressed and got 10 MB of capacity and showed them the potential business model and then the dot com crash killed everything.

Just do some searches. Europe is full of satellite IP-Multicasting projects. Its the future of "last Mile" digital content distribution.

This is the reason I am so passionate about Customer satisfaction. It really doesn't matter how one connects to satellite as long as it is a win win for the customer and the provider.

You KNOW where my heart lies here and its not with the 2-Way providers today.

Have a great evening everyone.

Thomas-

BTW I NEVER said we developed a thing here. All we did is 'import' a International open standard technology and a working business model which makes sense and delivers a service which customers appreciate and tell their friends about, one happy customer at a time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-OneWay-vs-Twoway-Satellite-Systems-23122518 Fri, 02 Oct 2009 18:37:26 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-OneWay-vs-Twoway-Satellite-Systems-23115420 said by bbinabox:

All of your (including birdman's) talk is just that, talk. Its what each technology was built on in the first place; proprietary/non-standard -OR- standard technologies. Did they scap it altogether or have they spent the past 15 years trying to 'morph' it into a consumer product?

Obviously by the reports from this web site and many many more on the web, you can see/find the answer(s).

Have a great day everybody!

.
.
said by bbinabox:
Hughes originally developed their platform for the military and its based on proprietary, non-standard, technologies, the HughesWay. (hey that could be their NEXT name change!)

This “proprietary” aspect of the DirecPC service as well as the incompatibility of the DirecPC hardware with industry accepted Operating Systems such as Windows 95, 98, NT.4 is what caused an early “negative” opinion among consumers and enterprises of satellite Internet services which obviously remains today.

said by bbinabox:

I learned something from this read

---

That's progress. I'm just sorry that it takes such direct confrontation to force such realizations

For your further edification, here's a direct quote from their HN7000S and HN9000 modem spec sheets: "Hughes satellite products are based on the IPoS (IP over Satellite) global standard approved by TIA, ETSI, and ITU". The only thing proprietary are the acceleration techniques used (primarily in the NOCs) to overcome the effects of latency over the satellite path. Wildblue has their own proprietary set, as does Wildblue, iDirect, etc. Their publications very likely carry similar statements.

I'm making this point, because Skyway has not seen fit to invest in such technology - which is the other side of your "proprietary technology" coin - and which also goes a long way explaining why they can sell their service for as low as $30/month.

//greg//
--
HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-OneWay-vs-Twoway-Satellite-Systems-23109448 Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:51:49 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-OneWay-vs-Twoway-Satellite-Systems-23108953
With “every component proprietary to Hughes,” as Dorfman said, the satellites only cost some $ 150 million apiece.
Source: »www.gilder.com/public/telecosm_s···ere.html

Brand Name Justification: associated network equipment to be used with this gateway and terminal equipment is compatible only with the Hughes modem technology and proprietary communications protocol. Other brand equipment would render the associated network equipment inoperable.
Source: »www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&···&au=&ck=

The payment resolves assertions by Hughes, the world's largest satellite maker, that from 1963 to 1982 the Government used the company's proprietary technology without permission.
Source: »www.nytimes.com/1999/04/03/busin···ent.html (this is regarding the feds paying them over $154 Million due to a using their proprietary technology which they had a patent on!!!)

Company officials, during a press conference in Washington, D.C., said an open satellite broadband standard was important for the satellite industry to encourage development in the satellite broadband industry. Until now, most satellite broadband providers have been using proprietary standards in their satellite systems, said Pradman Kaul, chairman and chief executive officer of Hughes Network Systems, based in Germantown, Maryland. "This has lead to systems that do not talk to each other," Kaul said of the proprietary standards.
Source: »www.infoworld.com/t/networking/h···dard-760 ( I learned something from this read, maybe they are opening up here, maybe they will start using International open standards. Maybe just maybe, their solutions may start delivering advertised speeds. Pffft. It's Hughes, they'll never learn.)

That's it for now GG.

Have a great evening everybody!!!

Thomas-]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-OneWay-vs-Twoway-Satellite-Systems-23108953 Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:22:31 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-OneWay-vs-Twoway-Satellite-Systems-23108847
2) Well that's all I have. I've already told you that I haven't touched a DirecPC/Way/Hughes/Net since 2000. I am waiting on a head to head review of a Hybrid technology system VS. a HughesNet system. I really don't know which modem it is, haven't they changed the modem over 9 times already in 9 years? Can't get it right yet huh? I am sure I will know more once I get the results. I will keep you posted.
3.&4. Their initial contracts were all military. They morphed the platform into a consumer brand hence all of the headaches and trouble. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-OneWay-vs-Twoway-Satellite-Systems-23108847 Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:02:03 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-OneWay-vs-Twoway-Satellite-Systems-23108566 1. that's just more advertising. Do you not understand the question?
2. not an answer. When you post debatable information on a public forum, you must also devote the time to defend it. Failing the latter only weakens your position.
3. not an answer, you again apparently didn't understand the question. Using your SW20 as a reference, what do YOU define as proprietary about DirecPC/Direcway/HughesNet modems?
and answering a question with a question is deflection, pure and simple. You do that a lot. But FWIW, I don't have a clue what Hughes first customer has to do with any of this.

//greg//
--
HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-OneWay-vs-Twoway-Satellite-Systems-23108566 Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:14:51 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-OneWay-vs-Twoway-Satellite-Systems-23108412
To answer you questions in order now that I have more time:

1) "Hybrid Technology" is where more than one technology is integrated into the modems for IP traffic via satellite and terrestrial transmissions. The SW-20 w/ PTSN-Return modems are available for "Last Mile" areas outside the reach of cable, dsl, fttx and wireless. The SW-20 w/ GPRS/EDGE-Return modems are currently available for those "Middle Mile" areas but the customer would have to have an account with a GSM provider like ATT or T-Mobile.

2) To answer your "head-to-head" question, I need time. We currently are waiting on some test results which are currently being conducted by a 3rd party. I will keep you posted.

3) All you need to do is Google "Hughes proprietary satellite technology" - I made it simple for you here: »www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe···oq=&aqi=

My Q back to you: where did Hughes start out? Who was their first customer?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-OneWay-vs-Twoway-Satellite-Systems-23108412 Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:46:14 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-OneWay-vs-Twoway-Satellite-Systems-23107937
What is your definition of "hybrid (1-way) technologies"?
How does the SW20 performance compare to the DW3000 in the various activities listed?
And while we're at it, identify what it is about the Hughes modems that you consider "proprietary".

Again. Please. No rhetoric, no sweeping generalities, no broadbrush statements, and no advertising. All I'm looking for is a competent technical comparison.

//greg//
--
HN7000S/98cm Prodelin/2w Osiris/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2009]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-OneWay-vs-Twoway-Satellite-Systems-23107937 Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:26:01 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-OneWay-vs-Twoway-Satellite-Systems-23102557 said by bbinabox:
Trying to compare hybrid (1-Way) technologies to DirecPC are ludicrous; BIG DIFFERENCE!

said by dbirdman:

Is this the only forum you participate in? That's generally considered rude behavior, just as asking for e-mailed or IMed replies. Public forums are of the greatest value when questions and answers are public, subject to critique, and offering answers to the vast majority of non-posting lurkers.

Today's poster was regarding speeds. I'm not too sure that was a tech support issue