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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6
reply to FFH

Re: Not news

said by FFH:

They want to get in to requiring ISPs to provide unlimited bandwidth without regard to cost or practicality. If such proposals become law, only the very rich would be able to afford to use this idealized internet because of runaway costs.
If someone is proposing that in the name of NN, then they're co-opting the principle.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Test your Broadband connection today! -- »measurementlab.net/


funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6
reply to baineschile

said by baineschile:

Who is the leader of the Internet Society? Can we nominate you Rob
"I will not accept if nominated and will not serve if elected."

(probably)
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Test your Broadband connection today! -- »measurementlab.net/


funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6
reply to FFH

said by FFH:

Net Neutrality proponents are still trying to put things like this in to law. The network either is completely unmanageable or so cost prohibitive to make the net non-blocking.
If you're trying to say that NN proponents want all broadband modems to be wide open, then you're mistaken. What they're saying is that prioritization isn't allowed. ISPs can still limit the admission rate, they just generally can't prioritize/degrade among the traffic.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Test your Broadband connection today! -- »measurementlab.net/

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2
reply to Mr Matt

There are still a large number of toll roads around PA/NY. Sounds like in interesting example to model.



funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6
reply to FFH

said by FFH:

said by funchords:

Blocking or degrading connectivity to some in favor to the traffic of others isn't what made the Internet great and it isn't the kind of service that those seeking Internet connections want.
Which isn't being done.
Madison River blocking VOIP?
Comcast and Sandvine blocking P2P uploads?
Cox and Sandvine blocking P2P uploads?
Cox's prioritization trial in Arkansas and Kansas?

Thanks to this debate and the creation of federal Net Neutrality policies, there are only a few examples if ISPs blocking or degrading VOIP and user uploads. But even those examples are huge when you consider that Comcast and Cox together were involved in the Sandvine RST thing. Together that's a large fraction of the USA Internet populace, not to mention the peers outside of the ISPs what those RSTs also went to.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Test your Broadband connection today! -- »measurementlab.net/


NOVA_Guy
ObamaCare Kills Americans
Premium
join:2002-03-05
reply to karlmarx

At $200/month for health care, I would be paying more than I am now and absolutely receiving less coverage. My employer picks up about 70% of the tab for my health care coverage and I'm happy with that situation, thank you very much.

The rest of the argument about the government owning the electricity grid, etc. might make sense if private corporations hadn't spent billions of dollars developing these on their own. Do you propose that the government just confiscate these from them, or would you like to ram another useless $700+ billion spending package through Congress with single-party support, handing money to pet liberal political support groups? Where would the money come from for this anyway, since Obammer has already admitted that we're broke (you know, just a few days before he and his wife Mickey went jetting off to NYC for date night at taxpayer expense)?
--
After listening to his UN speech, I'm convinced that Obama has a major self esteem problem and is projecting it upon the United States. He is more concerned with winning popularity contests than with keeping us safe.



NOVA_Guy
ObamaCare Kills Americans
Premium
join:2002-03-05
reply to openbox9

Especially the PA Turnpike. Ed Rendell has made the rates there obscene, along with screwing up quite a bit of the rest of the state. Thank God he hasn't gone through with his idea to turn I-80 into a toll road as well.
--
After listening to his UN speech, I'm convinced that Obama has a major self esteem problem and is projecting it upon the United States. He is more concerned with winning popularity contests than with keeping us safe.



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

1 recommendation

reply to karlmarx

said by karlmarx:

So, I am telling you right now, for $7 trillion a year ($250*125Million households), you could have dirt cheap electricty, good roads, great data, good water, and top notch health care.
Sure those number sound compelling, until of course we wipe off the sugar coating and realize you are talking about the government owning and controlling every aspect of our lives! Furthermore, will that $7 trillion give us the same amazing level of service and customer support as we can expect from, oh lets say, the post office or the DMV!

For whatever reason you think the government can do anything efficiently is beyond me. Take a long hard look at any 'business' that is government controlled; THAT is what you want our entire economy to be based upon???
--
"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
-Ronald Reagan-
»www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

said by wifi4milez:

said by karlmarx:

So, I am telling you right now, for $7 trillion a year ($250*125Million households), you could have dirt cheap electricty, good roads, great data, good water, and top notch health care.
Sure those number sound compelling, until of course we wipe off the sugar coating and realize you are talking about the government owning and controlling every aspect of our lives! Furthermore, will that $7 trillion give us the same amazing level of service and customer support as we can expect from, oh lets say, the post office or the DMV!

For whatever reason you think the government can do anything efficiently is beyond me. Take a long hard look at any 'business' that is government controlled; THAT is what you want our entire economy to be based upon???
KarlMarx is a statist. That is where the government has control over everything. The fact that this form of gov't often devolves in to a dictatorship seems not to bother him.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

said by FFH:

said by wifi4milez:

said by karlmarx:

So, I am telling you right now, for $7 trillion a year ($250*125Million households), you could have dirt cheap electricty, good roads, great data, good water, and top notch health care.
Sure those number sound compelling, until of course we wipe off the sugar coating and realize you are talking about the government owning and controlling every aspect of our lives! Furthermore, will that $7 trillion give us the same amazing level of service and customer support as we can expect from, oh lets say, the post office or the DMV!

For whatever reason you think the government can do anything efficiently is beyond me. Take a long hard look at any 'business' that is government controlled; THAT is what you want our entire economy to be based upon???
KarlMarx is a statist. That is where the government has control over everything. The fact that this form of gov't often devolves in to a dictatorship seems not to bother him.
A brilliant move on his part, especially considering how much success the Soviet Union had with that.........
--
"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
-Ronald Reagan-
»www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html


nevtxjustin

join:2006-04-18
Dallas, TX
reply to cpsycho

said by cpsycho:

The internet belongs to everyone.
But how *you* connect to it, belongs to the people that provide you the connection at their leisure, i.e. they can choose to accept you as a customer or tell you to find some other provider. And of course you can chose to pay or not pay them for your access.


rawgerz
The hell was that?
Premium
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA
reply to baineschile

The internet is made up of content and work from many thousands of individuals, if it were not for them, we'd still be in pre 1996! Maybe you weren't online in 96' but I was, and it SUCKED.

Besides I'm pretty sure many billions of tax dollars were allocated to help fund such networks.
--

You can't make all the people happy all of the time. But it should be common sense to shoot for the majority.


Zoder

join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL
reply to karlmarx

Those numbers are way off. The entire GDP of the country is around 11 trillion.

$250 x 125 million is only 31.25 billion


Zoder

join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL
reply to NOVA_Guy

Of course if that 70% your employer pays went to you instead as a monthly raise, you'd be coming out way ahead. But more likely your employer would just keep most of his savings.



jlivingood
Premium,VIP
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA
kudos:2
reply to baineschile

said by baineschile:

Who is the leader of the Internet Society? Can we nominate you Rob
FWIW, anyone can become a member of ISOC for free, even individuals. As a non-profit, ISOC welcomes anyone's financial support as well:

»www.isoc.org/membership/
--
JL
Comcast


tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:9
Reviews:
·G4 Communications
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting
reply to FFH

said by FFH:

quote:
prohibits the use of admission control to determine network traffic priority.
Net Neutrality proponents are still trying to put things like this in to law. The network either is completely unmanageable or so cost prohibitive to make the net non-blocking.

I think you are being deliberately hyperbolic.

The issue is not traffic priority per se, it is who gets to set priority levels, the ISP or customer. Concern is ISP will enter into business relationships with preferred vendors and provide enhanced service level to them and lower service level to competitors. This is at odds with the end-to-end paradigm of the Internet as a transparent bit delivery mechanism.

Neither the PSTN nor the Internet is non-blocking. Both utilize different mechanisms to manage overload conditions. Even commercial accounts with Service Level Agreement's (SLA) count on the statistical nature of traffic.

The problem for ISP's is the initial model of bursty Internet access is giving way to media streaming. This results in higher average traffic per unit of time then originally expected. In addition residential accounts were expected to be primarily data sinks. As new services are created upload is becoming more important.

/tom


KodiacZiller
Premium
join:2008-09-04
73368
kudos:2
reply to karlmarx

said by karlmarx:

The problem is the republicans sold everything else off. I sure as hell would love to pay a $10.00 'connect fee' for my electricity, and be able to BUY electricity from anywhere in the country, from whomever sells it cheapest.
Would you also be in favor of allowing consumers to purchase health insurance across state lines? (Obama is not in favor of this, btw).

k1ll3rdr4g0n

join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL
reply to patcat88

said by patcat88:

said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

Now, if facts were shown that the ISPs have to pay per byte and they were overselling for years - then ISPs have a leg to stand on for charging insane pricing per byte. But, the fact is ISPs DO NOT pay per byte, they pay by the bandwidth. If I bought a T1, there is no limit on how much I can download or upload, period. Same thing goes with an OC line. The only limit is how much data I push down the pipe at any given time.
Your ignoring 95th percentile billing.
95th percentile billing? Can you please explain?


oedipus_rex

@truenet.com

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burstable_billing

Pretty simple really. See the link above for the math involved. Mainly this is used however in hosting platforms and not on ISP type connections. Mainly I think because the last mile loop is costly vs the bandwidth being used, and it's probably over the head of some people.

I would honestly like to see residential connections to match the billing of style of backbone connections. IE. You pay Telco X for a line, then pay company Y for bandwidth and a cross-connect to Telco X. This way we can switch providers whenever you want, and only have issues if we need to get a different physical connection to your building.



multiplier

@speakeasy.net
reply to karlmarx

Blah blah blah, can't do arithmetic, blah blah.

Expand your moderator at work

qworster

join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

reply to karlmarx

Corporate trolls!

Why are so many of you here corporate trolls? Do you really believe that big business gives a rat's ass about any of us? Let me clue you into something-THEY DON'T!!!

Where's your common sense?

Corporate america would sell any of us out for half a dollar. The only reason they don't is the govt-and under the Dick and Bush show it probably got as low as 75 cents.


qworster

join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit
reply to NOVA_Guy

Re: Not news

said by NOVA_Guy:

At $200/month for health care, I would be paying more than I am now and absolutely receiving less coverage. My employer picks up about 70% of the tab for my health care coverage and I'm happy with that situation, thank you very much.

The rest of the argument about the government owning the electricity grid, etc. might make sense if private corporations hadn't spent billions of dollars developing these on their own. Do you propose that the government just confiscate these from them, or would you like to ram another useless $700+ billion spending package through Congress with single-party support, handing money to pet liberal political support groups? Where would the money come from for this anyway, since Obammer has already admitted that we're broke (you know, just a few days before he and his wife Mickey went jetting off to NYC for date night at taxpayer expense)?
My employer picks up ZERO of the costs. I suppose you think that's fair-RIGHT? After all, you're getting YOURS, so tough shit about the ones that don't get.

v12v12

join:2008-10-15

2 recommendations

reply to karlmarx

Re: Not news; Human nature + corruption

*This may be viewed as OT... but here's my $.02*

The fundamental problem with EITHER side of this so-called debate is this; human-nature. The innate "corruptness" of the human leads to "greed" and "tyranny." These are innate traits, shown through the HISTORY of time to be apparent in EVERY form of "society," and in raw nomadic tribes and general wanderers.

HISTORY again will back my statements that NEITHER pure govt, nor "corporations" can be trusted PERIOD... I would lean more on the side of a govt in control Vs a Corp, but our govt (in theory) CAN be controlled by votes, which are essentially "free." A corporation cannot be controlled except for monetarily (the customer + shareholders)... But as we all know, MOST people are sheep; too lazy and uninformed (or stupid) to actually pay attention to what's being served to them Vs being proactive and controlling their votes (since many don't/or improperly vote off things like emotion etc.) So with people being so stupid and devoid of knowledge b/c of social distractions such as TV/sports/gambling etc... the people elected (some falsely), aren't so stupid as we may think and know HUMAN-BEHAVIOR, as it's their job to know how people think.
So with these people at the helm, with a myriad of advisers and other professional advising groups; they play the game based off people's EMOTIONS and passions, which leave many confused and voting illogically and irrationally from which they make money. The govt AND corps prey upon the masses' income, like a giant fish ball in the sea being probed by predators.

What I'm getting at is PEOPLE are the problem in general; a corporation is nothing more than the modern equivalent to a king and his land, whom feud with the other neighboring "kings and vassals." This is ALL merely the feudal-system-matrix, but throw in things like "technology" and "medicine," suddenly we've some how left these age-old hierarchical structures of society? There ARE many living descendants from Pharaohs, kings, barbarians and other such human "elite" (self- prescribed), just WHERE do you think their money and social status went? Society is STILL structured with Elites at the top, and sub-groupings at many proceeding levels...

All this rambling seems off topic, but in-fact; when you LOOK at these squabbles between diff corps/govt groups etc... you're looking at the same old system, but with a polished and refined mask of technological advances. We are still in the same Kings and SERFS (most of us) system...

Just think logically about the way things are. They are this way b/c people ALLOW them to be so. If people got as upset about how their TAX dollars are going to building machines to simply destroy others and their land; as they do about the NYGiants losing to the Cowboys... society might just be a little better for the serfs/everyone else. Corporations and govt are doing simply what humans as a group-think collective do; trick, treat, hustle—prey upon other humans for life essence, aka money/goods. Some are less malicious than others, but in general the reason we're still arguing about Telcos fighting Ad-Co.s is people aren't voting to change the system. It would have LONG been changed if people got together and pro-actively voted.

"2-party system?" HAHA are you kidding me; TWO very smart and clever "parties" know that it's far better to PRETEND to be against one another, trading blows and titles to appease the cheering sheep; while they shake hands in private and BOTH make off with OUR money. This has been going on since the dawn of man. People in power, SHARE it in ways many down below cannot see nor comprehend. STOP voting for either party, b/c just WHAT has either party accomplished in the name of the "little people?" NOTHING! Individuals are largely the cause for great innovation and increased quality of life; NOT your beloved "2-party" system. You keep voting in the same hustlers and Charlatans for decades - that's FACT. ONLY the RICH can hold higher office (in nearly every case) in this country, WHY? B/c that's the way corruption and control/influence of the law (corrupted) works for the RICH and not for US... Try voting for a diff "party," what do you have to lose, your "vote" so you claim; then SHOW US just what your past votes have been worth? SAME old BS hustle of OUR taxt dollars...

Call it socialism, Darwinism, corporatism... I call it FEUDALISM, aka modern human nature. Both sides are corrupt and cannot be trusted so long as there's MORE "money" to be made (always).

Agree or disagree; thanks for reading.



JudgeGreene

@verizon.net
reply to karlmarx

Re: Not news

"Who owns the Internet?" is a complex question and has more than one valid answer.

Switching gears though, regarding the math of the broadband accounts, 50 million * $50/mo is not $125 trillion. (I get $30B.)