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This is a sub-selection from Not news


imanogre

join:2005-11-29
Mcdonough, GA
reply to baineschile

Re: Not news

I like how when a company wants to *gasp* make money it's automatically called corporate greed.

Not that I disagree with net neutrality, but it's phrases like this that really turn me off to an argument.



88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

said by imanogre:

I like how when a company wants to *gasp* make money it's automatically called corporate greed.

Not that I disagree with net neutrality, but it's phrases like this that really turn me off to an argument.
Simple when you expect someone to pay twice or more times for the same thing it's greed.

k1ll3rdr4g0n

join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL
reply to imanogre

said by imanogre:

I like how when a company wants to *gasp* make money it's automatically called corporate greed.

Not that I disagree with net neutrality, but it's phrases like this that really turn me off to an argument.
Statements like that are a slippery slope. There is a difference to make money to enhance the business and build it, then there is to prevent innovation in the industry just to make sure you don't loose profit margins.

Now, if facts were shown that the ISPs have to pay per byte and they were overselling for years - then ISPs have a leg to stand on for charging insane pricing per byte. But, the fact is ISPs DO NOT pay per byte, they pay by the bandwidth. If I bought a T1, there is no limit on how much I can download or upload, period. Same thing goes with an OC line. The only limit is how much data I push down the pipe at any given time.

This is where the ISPs are being greedy because they don't pay per byte, but yet they want the customer(s) to. You see where I am going with this?
It's similar to a concept of a buffet. The buffet pays $X for the food. You pay $Y to eat as much as you want. Now, what if you walked in tomorrow and they said they are still a buffet but you can only get 2 platefuls and you have to pay for platefuls after that because there is a limit. And lets say that another plateful costs MORE than what you paid at the door. At that point you would find another buffet right? Well, taking the buffet example to what ISPs are trying to do - I think we can agree that an ISPs usually have a monopoly or duopoly and even rarely a "triopoly" (sp?) but most of the time you don't have much of a choice for high speed internet, that is a fact. Now, lets say ISP X started to charge after the "2 platefuls", in a normal buffet you would just goto the competition....but in the real world there are no competition for high speed internet. See what I did there?
Paying-per-byte would only be appropriate if there was proper competition to keep the rates at a fair level that the ISPs competed for. But, since there is no competition - ISPs can charge whatever they want for overages and who is going to stop them? High speed internet is unregulated so they government wont, there is no competition so there is no incentive to keep the rates low.
Do you still think that pay-per-byte or overage charges is fair to the consumer?


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39

Statements like that are a slippery slope.
I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find anybody who doesn't think carriers should be allowed to make money. It's more than a slippery slope, it's an intentional distortion of an entire position.

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to k1ll3rdr4g0n

said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

Now, if facts were shown that the ISPs have to pay per byte and they were overselling for years - then ISPs have a leg to stand on for charging insane pricing per byte. But, the fact is ISPs DO NOT pay per byte, they pay by the bandwidth. If I bought a T1, there is no limit on how much I can download or upload, period. Same thing goes with an OC line. The only limit is how much data I push down the pipe at any given time.
Your ignoring 95th percentile billing.

k1ll3rdr4g0n

join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL

said by patcat88:

said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

Now, if facts were shown that the ISPs have to pay per byte and they were overselling for years - then ISPs have a leg to stand on for charging insane pricing per byte. But, the fact is ISPs DO NOT pay per byte, they pay by the bandwidth. If I bought a T1, there is no limit on how much I can download or upload, period. Same thing goes with an OC line. The only limit is how much data I push down the pipe at any given time.
Your ignoring 95th percentile billing.
95th percentile billing? Can you please explain?


oedipus_rex

@truenet.com

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burstable_billing

Pretty simple really. See the link above for the math involved. Mainly this is used however in hosting platforms and not on ISP type connections. Mainly I think because the last mile loop is costly vs the bandwidth being used, and it's probably over the head of some people.

I would honestly like to see residential connections to match the billing of style of backbone connections. IE. You pay Telco X for a line, then pay company Y for bandwidth and a cross-connect to Telco X. This way we can switch providers whenever you want, and only have issues if we need to get a different physical connection to your building.

Expand your moderator at work