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This is a sub-selection from Not news

karlmarx

join:2006-09-18
Chicago, IL

1 recommendation

Re: Not news

The ANSWER to your question of who 'owns' the internet, can only be answered by THE CUSTOMER. The CUSTOMER is WHERE THE MONEY COMES FROM. PERIOD. Without the customer, there is no backbone, no ISP, no nothing.
Why is that? Lets see now. If say, AT&T got it's way, and made google double pay, and google chose NOT TO, then google would die. simple. Do the math. There are 50 million broadband accounts. Call it an average of $50.00/month. That is a total of $125 TRILLION DOLLARS. With 125 Trillion PER YEAR, WHY doesn't the government just lay fiber to every single home in america, and charge a $10.00 'access fee', and THEN let providers sell you an IP Address. I guarantee you, you would see the average broadband bill drop to about $30.00 a month for data. AND, if we break up the media megacorps, and force them to sell channels via a-la-carte, I suspect the average person would pay about $20.00 month for channels, and call it $10.00 for Voip. So, your total monthly bill would be about $60.00, for PHONE, TV, and DATA. That's a HELL of a lot cheaper than the $150.00 comcast charges.

Call it socailism if you will. The government, in my view, exists to provide services when the scale is too big for anyone else to do. RE: National Defense, Highway Network, Security.

The problem is the republicans sold everything else off. I sure as hell would love to pay a $10.00 'connect fee' for my electricity, and be able to BUY electricity from anywhere in the country, from whomever sells it cheapest.

So, Lets call this new place 'A better America'. The governement owns and maintains the roads, national defense, electric grid, data grid, water grid and health care. Everyone pays an ''access fee' to get on these grids, and then buys whatever they want from whomever they want it to. I guarantee you I could buy electricity from the Midwest at a fraction of the cost we pay in the Northeast, and I would cut all my bills in half.

Guess what, $10.00 per service (road/electric/water/data) would run you $40.00 a month. Health Care, probably about $200.00 per month. So, I am telling you right now, for $7 trillion a year ($250*125Million households), you could have dirt cheap electricty, good roads, great data, good water, and top notch health care.

Today, the average SINGLE american pays $8000.00 a year in health care. In 1970 (40 years ago), we paid an average of $350.00 a YEAR. In todays dollars, that's about $2000.00. Under my plan, everyone pays about $2500.00 a year, and everyone gets coverage, but you buy it from REAL competing insurers (or the government, if it's cheaper). Under My plan, you will pay about $70 a month for 100/100, 50 channels, and all you can talk.

Call it a tax, call it a $3500 tax for every man, woman and child. And then eliminate all the other fees. We would come out way ahead.

So who owns the internet, the megacorps, which is wrong. WE the people should own the backbone, and use whatever provider gives us the service at the level we want to pay for,
--
The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity!
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: Not news

It sure is easy to throw meaningless numbers around. So where's you're "plan"? You've intrigued my interest.
beaups

join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH
Actually...the investors paid to build the network. Us customers are helping pay the investors back. So by your logic, the investors should dictate how it is managed, and (to a degree sadly) that's exactly what is happening.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:42

1 recommendation

Re: Not news

Technically, investors, taxpayers, unions and executives helped build many of these networks. Seems only reasonable that all of them are involved in discussing the networks' future?
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink
I wonder how they did it? In New York's Hudson Valley in the 1850's almost all roads were Turnpikes which means they were privately owned toll roads, much like the Internet is now. Between the 1850's and the present, the Turnpikes were converted to government owned public roads. I wonder how they did it?
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

Re: Not news

said by Mr Matt:

Between the 1850's and the present, the Turnpikes were converted to government owned public roads. I wonder how they did it?
Revoking the charter under eminent domain, or whatever law governed the initial charter.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
There are still a large number of toll roads around PA/NY. Sounds like in interesting example to model.

NOVA_Guy
ObamaCare Kills Americans
Premium
join:2002-03-05

Re: Not news

Especially the PA Turnpike. Ed Rendell has made the rates there obscene, along with screwing up quite a bit of the rest of the state. Thank God he hasn't gone through with his idea to turn I-80 into a toll road as well.
--
After listening to his UN speech, I'm convinced that Obama has a major self esteem problem and is projecting it upon the United States. He is more concerned with winning popularity contests than with keeping us safe.

NOVA_Guy
ObamaCare Kills Americans
Premium
join:2002-03-05
At $200/month for health care, I would be paying more than I am now and absolutely receiving less coverage. My employer picks up about 70% of the tab for my health care coverage and I'm happy with that situation, thank you very much.

The rest of the argument about the government owning the electricity grid, etc. might make sense if private corporations hadn't spent billions of dollars developing these on their own. Do you propose that the government just confiscate these from them, or would you like to ram another useless $700+ billion spending package through Congress with single-party support, handing money to pet liberal political support groups? Where would the money come from for this anyway, since Obammer has already admitted that we're broke (you know, just a few days before he and his wife Mickey went jetting off to NYC for date night at taxpayer expense)?
--
After listening to his UN speech, I'm convinced that Obama has a major self esteem problem and is projecting it upon the United States. He is more concerned with winning popularity contests than with keeping us safe.
Zoder

join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL

Re: Not news

Of course if that 70% your employer pays went to you instead as a monthly raise, you'd be coming out way ahead. But more likely your employer would just keep most of his savings.
qworster

join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit
said by NOVA_Guy:

At $200/month for health care, I would be paying more than I am now and absolutely receiving less coverage. My employer picks up about 70% of the tab for my health care coverage and I'm happy with that situation, thank you very much.

The rest of the argument about the government owning the electricity grid, etc. might make sense if private corporations hadn't spent billions of dollars developing these on their own. Do you propose that the government just confiscate these from them, or would you like to ram another useless $700+ billion spending package through Congress with single-party support, handing money to pet liberal political support groups? Where would the money come from for this anyway, since Obammer has already admitted that we're broke (you know, just a few days before he and his wife Mickey went jetting off to NYC for date night at taxpayer expense)?
My employer picks up ZERO of the costs. I suppose you think that's fair-RIGHT? After all, you're getting YOURS, so tough shit about the ones that don't get.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

1 recommendation

said by karlmarx:

So, I am telling you right now, for $7 trillion a year ($250*125Million households), you could have dirt cheap electricty, good roads, great data, good water, and top notch health care.
Sure those number sound compelling, until of course we wipe off the sugar coating and realize you are talking about the government owning and controlling every aspect of our lives! Furthermore, will that $7 trillion give us the same amazing level of service and customer support as we can expect from, oh lets say, the post office or the DMV!

For whatever reason you think the government can do anything efficiently is beyond me. Take a long hard look at any 'business' that is government controlled; THAT is what you want our entire economy to be based upon???
--
"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
-Ronald Reagan-
»www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: Not news

said by wifi4milez:

said by karlmarx:

So, I am telling you right now, for $7 trillion a year ($250*125Million households), you could have dirt cheap electricty, good roads, great data, good water, and top notch health care.
Sure those number sound compelling, until of course we wipe off the sugar coating and realize you are talking about the government owning and controlling every aspect of our lives! Furthermore, will that $7 trillion give us the same amazing level of service and customer support as we can expect from, oh lets say, the post office or the DMV!

For whatever reason you think the government can do anything efficiently is beyond me. Take a long hard look at any 'business' that is government controlled; THAT is what you want our entire economy to be based upon???
KarlMarx is a statist. That is where the government has control over everything. The fact that this form of gov't often devolves in to a dictatorship seems not to bother him.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

Re: Not news

said by FFH5:

said by wifi4milez:

said by karlmarx:

So, I am telling you right now, for $7 trillion a year ($250*125Million households), you could have dirt cheap electricty, good roads, great data, good water, and top notch health care.
Sure those number sound compelling, until of course we wipe off the sugar coating and realize you are talking about the government owning and controlling every aspect of our lives! Furthermore, will that $7 trillion give us the same amazing level of service and customer support as we can expect from, oh lets say, the post office or the DMV!

For whatever reason you think the government can do anything efficiently is beyond me. Take a long hard look at any 'business' that is government controlled; THAT is what you want our entire economy to be based upon???
KarlMarx is a statist. That is where the government has control over everything. The fact that this form of gov't often devolves in to a dictatorship seems not to bother him.
A brilliant move on his part, especially considering how much success the Soviet Union had with that.........
--
"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
-Ronald Reagan-
»www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

Zoder

join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL
Those numbers are way off. The entire GDP of the country is around 11 trillion.

$250 x 125 million is only 31.25 billion

KodiacZiller
Premium
join:2008-09-04
73368
kudos:2
said by karlmarx:

The problem is the republicans sold everything else off. I sure as hell would love to pay a $10.00 'connect fee' for my electricity, and be able to BUY electricity from anywhere in the country, from whomever sells it cheapest.
Would you also be in favor of allowing consumers to purchase health insurance across state lines? (Obama is not in favor of this, btw).

multiplier

@speakeasy.net
Blah blah blah, can't do arithmetic, blah blah.
qworster

join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

Why are so many of you here corporate trolls? Do you really believe that big business gives a rat's ass about any of us? Let me clue you into something-THEY DON'T!!!

Where's your common sense?

Corporate america would sell any of us out for half a dollar. The only reason they don't is the govt-and under the Dick and Bush show it probably got as low as 75 cents.
v12v12

join:2008-10-15

2 recommendations

*This may be viewed as OT... but here's my $.02*

The fundamental problem with EITHER side of this so-called debate is this; human-nature. The innate "corruptness" of the human leads to "greed" and "tyranny." These are innate traits, shown through the HISTORY of time to be apparent in EVERY form of "society," and in raw nomadic tribes and general wanderers.

HISTORY again will back my statements that NEITHER pure govt, nor "corporations" can be trusted PERIOD... I would lean more on the side of a govt in control Vs a Corp, but our govt (in theory) CAN be controlled by votes, which are essentially "free." A corporation cannot be controlled except for monetarily (the customer + shareholders)... But as we all know, MOST people are sheep; too lazy and uninformed (or stupid) to actually pay attention to what's being served to them Vs being proactive and controlling their votes (since many don't/or improperly vote off things like emotion etc.) So with people being so stupid and devoid of knowledge b/c of social distractions such as TV/sports/gambling etc... the people elected (some falsely), aren't so stupid as we may think and know HUMAN-BEHAVIOR, as it's their job to know how people think.
So with these people at the helm, with a myriad of advisers and other professional advising groups; they play the game based off people's EMOTIONS and passions, which leave many confused and voting illogically and irrationally from which they make money. The govt AND corps prey upon the masses' income, like a giant fish ball in the sea being probed by predators.

What I'm getting at is PEOPLE are the problem in general; a corporation is nothing more than the modern equivalent to a king and his land, whom feud with the other neighboring "kings and vassals." This is ALL merely the feudal-system-matrix, but throw in things like "technology" and "medicine," suddenly we've some how left these age-old hierarchical structures of society? There ARE many living descendants from Pharaohs, kings, barbarians and other such human "elite" (self- prescribed), just WHERE do you think their money and social status went? Society is STILL structured with Elites at the top, and sub-groupings at many proceeding levels...

All this rambling seems off topic, but in-fact; when you LOOK at these squabbles between diff corps/govt groups etc... you're looking at the same old system, but with a polished and refined mask of technological advances. We are still in the same Kings and SERFS (most of us) system...

Just think logically about the way things are. They are this way b/c people ALLOW them to be so. If people got as upset about how their TAX dollars are going to building machines to simply destroy others and their land; as they do about the NYGiants losing to the Cowboys... society might just be a little better for the serfs/everyone else. Corporations and govt are doing simply what humans as a group-think collective do; trick, treat, hustle—prey upon other humans for life essence, aka money/goods. Some are less malicious than others, but in general the reason we're still arguing about Telcos fighting Ad-Co.s is people aren't voting to change the system. It would have LONG been changed if people got together and pro-actively voted.

"2-party system?" HAHA are you kidding me; TWO very smart and clever "parties" know that it's far better to PRETEND to be against one another, trading blows and titles to appease the cheering sheep; while they shake hands in private and BOTH make off with OUR money. This has been going on since the dawn of man. People in power, SHARE it in ways many down below cannot see nor comprehend. STOP voting for either party, b/c just WHAT has either party accomplished in the name of the "little people?" NOTHING! Individuals are largely the cause for great innovation and increased quality of life; NOT your beloved "2-party" system. You keep voting in the same hustlers and Charlatans for decades - that's FACT. ONLY the RICH can hold higher office (in nearly every case) in this country, WHY? B/c that's the way corruption and control/influence of the law (corrupted) works for the RICH and not for US... Try voting for a diff "party," what do you have to lose, your "vote" so you claim; then SHOW US just what your past votes have been worth? SAME old BS hustle of OUR taxt dollars...

Call it socialism, Darwinism, corporatism... I call it FEUDALISM, aka modern human nature. Both sides are corrupt and cannot be trusted so long as there's MORE "money" to be made (always).

Agree or disagree; thanks for reading.

JudgeGreene

@verizon.net
"Who owns the Internet?" is a complex question and has more than one valid answer.

Switching gears though, regarding the math of the broadband accounts, 50 million * $50/mo is not $125 trillion. (I get $30B.)