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HD is still compressed a LOT »
This is a sub-selection from Keeping pace

psx_defector

join:2001-06-09
Allen, TX
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to Luminaris

Re: Keeping pace

said by Luminaris:

How about faster speeds to keep pace with the rest of the world?
Who gives a shit about the rest of the world? Just because some Korean WoW gold miner demands an 100Gbps optical connection shoved up his ass doesn't mean squat for Billy Bob in the backwoods of Virgina.

Innovation?
Is bendable fiber NOT innovation?

How about trying to outpace countries with much faster speeds?
See Korean WoW gold miner.

I guess that doesn't mean much to ISP's here in the U.S.
Just as the US market means squat to the rest of the world. The Australian and UK markets don't capitulate to demands from the rest of the world telling them to go unmetered. Belgium doesn't give a rats ass that some Sweedish pirate has fiber to the home. Someone from South Africa doesn't care that his neighbor country just to the north doesn't have ANY broadband.

Every market is different. And we are not the typical broadband user. Just because people on dslreports.com are clamoring for the 100Gbps optical link shoved up our asses doesn't mean that the users in Bumblefuck, VA demand it, or even someone next door.

Luminaris

join:2005-12-01
Waterford, VA

Wow, just, WOW. Dude, you got issues



ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to psx_defector

said by psx_defector:

said by Luminaris:

How about faster speeds to keep pace with the rest of the world?
Who gives a shit about the rest of the world? Just because some Korean WoW gold miner demands an 100Gbps optical connection shoved up his ass doesn't mean squat for Billy Bob in the backwoods of Virgina.

Innovation?
Is bendable fiber NOT innovation?

How about trying to outpace countries with much faster speeds?
See Korean WoW gold miner.

I guess that doesn't mean much to ISP's here in the U.S.
Just as the US market means squat to the rest of the world. The Australian and UK markets don't capitulate to demands from the rest of the world telling them to go unmetered. Belgium doesn't give a rats ass that some Sweedish pirate has fiber to the home. Someone from South Africa doesn't care that his neighbor country just to the north doesn't have ANY broadband.

Every market is different. And we are not the typical broadband user. Just because people on dslreports.com are clamoring for the 100Gbps optical link shoved up our asses doesn't mean that the users in Bumblefuck, VA demand it, or even someone next door.
Hi Ignorant America! Haven't talked to you in awhile.

psx_defector

join:2001-06-09
Allen, TX
kudos:1
reply to Luminaris

said by Luminaris:

Wow, just, WOW. Dude, you got issues
Only issue I got is people demanding ridiculous levels of bandwidth for absolutely no reason.

"People in Korea get 100Gbps shoved up their asses where ever they go, why doesn't AT&T do that for me in Bumblefuck, VA? They ain't being competitive!!"

Do we hear:

"People in Amsterdam get to smoke pot and screw hookers all day. Why doesn't America allow that? They ain't being competitive!!!!"

Every market is different. People need to quit thinking that something half way around the world has any bearing on what we do here in the States.

You don't need 100Mbps. Don't give me crap about video, VPNers, and games driving the need for more bandwidth. Piracy was the killer app for broadband expansion at the beginning of the decade, and piracy is the killer app that will drive broadband expansion into the next. For every bit of bandwidth you spend looking at videos, I bet you there are two or three BitTorrent client running full boar up and down.

Verizon has the ability to provide the mythical 100Gbps fiber run up your ass. Normal people don't need it, normal people don't want it.

backness

join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2

1 recommendation

said by psx_defector:

said by Luminaris:

Wow, just, WOW. Dude, you got issues
Only issue I got is people demanding ridiculous levels of bandwidth for absolutely no reason.

First, who do you think you are that you can tell someone what their reasons for wanting a fast connection are?

Second, the equiment costs are based on a global marketplace.

So if it is possible in Sweeden it is possible in Los Angles.

Please get off your soap box

psx_defector

join:2001-06-09
Allen, TX
kudos:1

said by backness:

First, who do you think you are that you can tell someone what their reasons for wanting a fast connection are?
Because that's what people do with their connections. Don't act like it's not.

Second, the equiment costs are based on a global marketplace.
No, they are not. A good example. I'm buying a Draytek Vigor 2820Vn. I can get it for either $250US or £180GBP. It comes from the same factory in mainland China, but what's the difference in cost? Regulatory difference make for a lot of cost difference between countries. Not only in bandwidth costs, but CPE and core infrastructure.

So if it is possible in Sweeden it is possible in Los Angles.
Never said it wasn't, but don't expect to get a 100Gbps fiber drop in Bumblefuck, VA. There is no way that it's cost effective.


AlfredNewman

@bankone.com
reply to psx_defector

said by psx_defector:

Do we hear:

"People in Amsterdam get to smoke pot and screw hookers all day. Why doesn't America allow that? They ain't being competitive!!!!"
Well it would solve a lot of money issues with our gov. and would have a lot less people in our crowded prisons. Which the people are starting to realize and why there is such a push for re-legalizing pot and don't get me started on hookers. There's a profession that has been there since the dawn of time for men.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to backness

said by backness:

First, who do you think you are that you can tell someone what their reasons for wanting a fast connection are?
OK, so you tell us what your need for a fast connection is...


Boogeyman
Drive it like you stole it
Premium
join:2002-12-17
Seward, AK

1 recommendation

reply to backness

I'm more concerned with his obsession with having glass fibers inserted rectally.

He has a point though. While piracy was a factor in the jump from 56k to broadband, it was a very small one. I remember waiting minutes for pages to load, especially if they had a lot of graphical content. For me, the ability to check the news and my email and all that in less than an hour was the big draw to broadband.

But now? The only time I have to wait, is when I am downloading large files. Streaming video works great, even on multiple pc's on the same connection. With even a 30mbps you can stream mutiple HD streams. Sure they are crap quality, but until more than just 20% (number was pulled from the same location where Korean WoW gold farmers put there fiber connections) of internet users can even get a connection greater than 10mbps, the content providers really have no incentive to offer it any faster or at a better quality.
--
Im Your Boogeyman, Thats What I Am



Boogeyman
Drive it like you stole it
Premium
join:2002-12-17
Seward, AK
reply to ArrayList

You must not get out, answer the phone, or especially, read the net, much.

Remember, ignorance is everywhere. And someone, somewhere, thinks you are ignorant..
--
Im Your Boogeyman, Thats What I Am



ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by Boogeyman:

You must not get out, answer the phone, or especially, read the net, much.

Remember, ignorance is everywhere. And someone, somewhere, thinks you are ignorant..
i concede that I am ignorant. there is a difference.

psx_defector

join:2001-06-09
Allen, TX
kudos:1
reply to Boogeyman

said by Boogeyman:

I'm more concerned with his obsession with having glass fibers inserted rectally.
Well, you know those Asians and their freaky ways.

I guess the metaphor was lost on people.

While piracy was a factor in the jump from 56k to broadband, it was a very small one.
One word for you, Napster.

The only reason why I went to high speed back in '98 was for warez. That 256/64 pipe kicked ass.

Right now, BitTorrent and it's derivative uses is the killer app driving bigger and bigger pipes. The ease of use drives more and more idiots to sucking down bandwidth. Back in the day, warez was more of an art and required a bit of knowledge, like knowing how to combine news group parts, compression schemes, and multipart archives. Now, you go to Mininova, download a file, and everything comes in.

As more and more pirates get online, they start saturating the pipe. They leave it on while they are away, running full boar all the time. Video, even in it's most crazy uncompressed size, doesn't compare. At least video stops sometimes.

backness

join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2

So you have identified 2 issues:

1) More and more people are into online content
2) Existing DSL is not fast enough for peoples needs

The fact that there are limited sources for fairly priced online goods is a misnomer.

As far as I can see, people need a quality connection with no cap to be able to have free access to the content that will eventually come online. Without a state of the art network, what you are saying is true. With a state of the art network a new marketplace forms and content producers can interact directly with their customers. We can remove the whole hollywood value chain model and replace it with direct content delivery.

The linch pin of the whole concept relies on state of the art networks.


psx_defector

join:2001-06-09
Allen, TX
kudos:1

said by backness:

So you have identified 2 issues:

1) More and more people are into online content
Pirated online content. Don't believe for a second everyone is only streaming Hulu 24x7, both up and down.

2) Existing DSL is not fast enough for peoples needs
It's plenty fast for people's current needs with regards to legit online content. You don't need to download a song from iTunes in less than 1 second, you can't stream the video from Hulu any faster than what the video plays at. Where the "demand" is coming from is people "demanding" they download 100GB worth of Steam patches and games, download the song from iTunes in 1 second, and watch full screen HD on three TVs.

People always quote the "Oh, well my family will do all that together." People forget that the majority of the subscribers out there are us single people. Do we need 15 HD streams coming in?

As far as I can see, people need a quality connection with no cap to be able to have free access to the content that will eventually come online. Without a state of the art network, what you are saying is true. With a state of the art network a new marketplace forms and content producers can interact directly with their customers. We can remove the whole hollywood value chain model and replace it with direct content delivery.
Considering that the content makers are NOT leaning that way, why spend all that money on building something they don't want to use and the majority of users don't need? People act like online content will change every facet of our lives, online social networking is where we will find our next wife, and CuFme will be how we procreate. It just ain't gonna happen, not in our lifetimes.

Despite what you think, the consumer doesn't control the way content comes to you. Hence why piracy, pirates in it for the content and not the ones who are trying to turn a buck, is a big draw. The providers of content will never concede to giving away their product. Honest users will always be there, so their revenue stream will never dry up. They will never stop in stopping piracy. Just as they will never stop piracy.

backness

join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2

Because a computer will only ever need 64k of memory.


bsoft

join:2004-03-28
Boulder, CO

1 recommendation

reply to psx_defector

Pirated online content. Don't believe for a second everyone is only streaming Hulu 24x7, both up and down.
Go look at actual studies of bandwidth usage rather than what the MPAA/RIAA is spewing. P2P is not the #1 bandwidth category, Internet video (primarily YouTube) is.

Maybe you don't use MLB.tv, CNN's online video, CBS.com, Hulu, Netflix, iTunes, Blockbuster Online Access, or YouTube. But the stats say that there are a hell of a lot more people using legal services than pirating. For one thing, it's considerably easier.

It's plenty fast for people's current needs with regards to legit online content. You don't need to download a song from iTunes in less than 1 second, you can't stream the video from Hulu any faster than what the video plays at.
Hulu provides low-resolution, low-bitrate videos because people have shitty DSL connections. Go watch a Blu-ray disc and compare it to Hulu or even Netflix's online "HD". Now tell me why it's unreasonable to want the same level of quality from Internet video.

Where the "demand" is coming from is people "demanding" they download 100GB worth of Steam patches and games, download the song from iTunes in 1 second, and watch full screen HD on three TVs.
Oh, I see, we should buy all of our software in cardboard boxes, wait 20 minutes to download an album, and watch crappy low-resolution Internet video.

People demand better service than they did in 2002. My GPU is easily 50x faster than it was in 2002. My CPU is at least 10x faster (depending on how you consider multicore). I have 16x more memory, 20x more disk space, and a monitor that's twice as large and quadruple the resolution.

So, yeah, do I expect to be able to stream HD video? Yes. Do I expect to be able to download games and other software quickly? Yes. Do I expect to be able to download music without waiting for minutes? Yes.

People always quote the "Oh, well my family will do all that together." People forget that the majority of the subscribers out there are us single people. Do we need 15 HD streams coming in?
No one needs ANY HD streams. What we *want* is an Internet connection where we don't have to think, "Oh crap, I ran out of bandwidth!". Being able to pull Fedora and watch Netflix at the same time would be a start.

Despite what you think, the consumer doesn't control the way content comes to you.
History disagrees. Hollywood fought TV and the VCR. We won. The TV networks fought DVRs. We won. Record companies refused to sell DRM-free music. We won.

Every single time some new technology comes along, the content companies bitch and moan. And then they fold. And of course, the technologies that are supposed to kill them never actually do.

Every time a technological advance is made, someone tries to rain on the parade by claiming that the technology is unnecessary. What would anyone do with a 1GB hard drive? What would anyone do with a 1.5Mbps connection all to themself? What would anyone do with a dual-core CPU?

The thing is, we ALWAYS find a use. Maybe the future is 4x HD resolution, or 3D, or higher color depth. Maybe it's games with better graphics (and larger patches), software as a service, or PCs that boot over the Internet.

The great thing about the Internet is that the people who own the pipes don't get to decide how they are filled. YouTube couldn't have existed in a world of dial-up. Steam doesn't fly on 256k DSL. And Netflix won't be able to stop mailing discs around until we all have 10Mbps+.

We are talking about the end of content distribution as we know it. Now, I don't think that the future of entertainment is teenagers making videos on YouTube. But I do think that you have to be crazy to believe that the future of entertainment is watching one of the 140 channels you subscribe to. The future is anything, anytime. The Internet is the technology that enables that future. That's why 100Mbps matters.

bn1221

join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY
reply to psx_defector

I need 100 Mbit a second so my people can work from home and free up office space