Topic 'Re: Keeping pace' in forum ''

Topic 'Re: Keeping pace' in forum '' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23081798 en Mon, 20 May 2013 08:48:15 EDT Mon, 20 May 2013 08:48:15 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23384607 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23384607 Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:33:19 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23093459
At least where p2p networks are involved, increasing BW on a residential lines can help the p2p d/l go faster (by providing faster uploads from other peers).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23093459 Mon, 28 Sep 2009 07:47:51 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23093667

said by battleop:

...mostly a my d**k is bigger than yours...

Of course in my case, mine is... :D
Whaddaya want, Corvettes should be banned, too?
Regards
--
Best reason for living in the Now —
"In the long run, we'll all be dead." John Maynard Keynes]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23093667 Mon, 28 Sep 2009 05:30:02 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23091773 said by fifty nine:

100Mbps isn't really needed for HD streaming video right now. In fact you can do that on a 10M connection with MPEG4 compression.
Broadcast quality HDTV is about 15 Mbps - was set that way to fit into the 19 Mbps available. More advanced compression algorithms reduce requirement a little more. But bottom line, high resolution full motion video takes a lot of bandwidth.

Assuming a typical family of four connection needs 60 Mbps in order to deliver individual HD streams, exclusive of everything else to each family member.

That is why 100 Mbps is the sweet spot for residential broadband. Also happens to be a standard Ethernet speed.

/tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23091773 Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:02:51 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23091139 said by fifty nine:

100Mbps isn't really needed for HD streaming video right now. In fact you can do that on a 10M connection with MPEG4 compression.
one hd tv stream will use all that up in one connection. and say your dad wants his news from a "newsgroup" and mom wants to watch her missed episode of her soap opera and the son wants to download the newest mmorpg or demos. the daughter may want to upload her hundreds of pictures to facebook/myspace or something like that. how frustrated with that family be with a 10M connection. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23091139 Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:16:15 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23089647 Pirated online content. Don't believe for a second everyone is only streaming Hulu 24x7, both up and down.Go look at actual studies of bandwidth usage rather than what the MPAA/RIAA is spewing. P2P is not the #1 bandwidth category, Internet video (primarily YouTube) is.

Maybe you don't use MLB.tv, CNN's online video, CBS.com, Hulu, Netflix, iTunes, Blockbuster Online Access, or YouTube. But the stats say that there are a hell of a lot more people using legal services than pirating. For one thing, it's considerably easier.

Hulu provides low-resolution, low-bitrate videos because people have shitty DSL connections. Go watch a Blu-ray disc and compare it to Hulu or even Netflix's online "HD". Now tell me why it's unreasonable to want the same level of quality from Internet video.

Where the "demand" is coming from is people "demanding" they download 100GB worth of Steam patches and games, download the song from iTunes in 1 second, and watch full screen HD on three TVs.

Oh, I see, we should buy all of our software in cardboard boxes, wait 20 minutes to download an album, and watch crappy low-resolution Internet video.

People demand better service than they did in 2002. My GPU is easily 50x faster than it was in 2002. My CPU is at least 10x faster (depending on how you consider multicore). I have 16x more memory, 20x more disk space, and a monitor that's twice as large and quadruple the resolution.

So, yeah, do I expect to be able to stream HD video? Yes. Do I expect to be able to download games and other software quickly? Yes. Do I expect to be able to download music without waiting for minutes? Yes.

People always quote the "Oh, well my family will do all that together." People forget that the majority of the subscribers out there are us single people. Do we need 15 HD streams coming in?

No one needs ANY HD streams. What we *want* is an Internet connection where we don't have to think, "Oh crap, I ran out of bandwidth!". Being able to pull Fedora and watch Netflix at the same time would be a start.

Despite what you think, the consumer doesn't control the way content comes to you.

History disagrees. Hollywood fought TV and the VCR. We won. The TV networks fought DVRs. We won. Record companies refused to sell DRM-free music. We won.

Every single time some new technology comes along, the content companies bitch and moan. And then they fold. And of course, the technologies that are supposed to kill them never actually do.

Every time a technological advance is made, someone tries to rain on the parade by claiming that the technology is unnecessary. What would anyone do with a 1GB hard drive? What would anyone do with a 1.5Mbps connection all to themself? What would anyone do with a dual-core CPU?

The thing is, we ALWAYS find a use. Maybe the future is 4x HD resolution, or 3D, or higher color depth. Maybe it's games with better graphics (and larger patches), software as a service, or PCs that boot over the Internet.

The great thing about the Internet is that the people who own the pipes don't get to decide how they are filled. YouTube couldn't have existed in a world of dial-up. Steam doesn't fly on 256k DSL. And Netflix won't be able to stop mailing discs around until we all have 10Mbps+.

We are talking about the end of content distribution as we know it. Now, I don't think that the future of entertainment is teenagers making videos on YouTube. But I do think that you have to be crazy to believe that the future of entertainment is watching one of the 140 channels you subscribe to. The future is anything, anytime. The Internet is the technology that enables that future. That's why 100Mbps matters.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23089647 Sun, 27 Sep 2009 07:48:52 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23088391 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23088391 Sat, 26 Sep 2009 20:46:11 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23087367 said by backness:

So you have identified 2 issues:

1) More and more people are into online content Pirated online content. Don't believe for a second everyone is only streaming Hulu 24x7, both up and down.

2) Existing DSL is not fast enough for peoples needs

It's plenty fast for people's current needs with regards to legit online content. You don't need to download a song from iTunes in less than 1 second, you can't stream the video from Hulu any faster than what the video plays at. Where the "demand" is coming from is people "demanding" they download 100GB worth of Steam patches and games, download the song from iTunes in 1 second, and watch full screen HD on three TVs.

People always quote the "Oh, well my family will do all that together." People forget that the majority of the subscribers out there are us single people. Do we need 15 HD streams coming in?

As far as I can see, people need a quality connection with no cap to be able to have free access to the content that will eventually come online. Without a state of the art network, what you are saying is true. With a state of the art network a new marketplace forms and content producers can interact directly with their customers. We can remove the whole hollywood value chain model and replace it with direct content delivery.

Considering that the content makers are NOT leaning that way, why spend all that money on building something they don't want to use and the majority of users don't need? People act like online content will change every facet of our lives, online social networking is where we will find our next wife, and CuFme will be how we procreate. It just ain't gonna happen, not in our lifetimes.

Despite what you think, the consumer doesn't control the way content comes to you. Hence why piracy, pirates in it for the content and not the ones who are trying to turn a buck, is a big draw. The providers of content will never concede to giving away their product. Honest users will always be there, so their revenue stream will never dry up. They will never stop in stopping piracy. Just as they will never stop piracy.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23087367 Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:03:45 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23086268
1) More and more people are into online content
2) Existing DSL is not fast enough for peoples needs

The fact that there are limited sources for fairly priced online goods is a misnomer.

As far as I can see, people need a quality connection with no cap to be able to have free access to the content that will eventually come online. Without a state of the art network, what you are saying is true. With a state of the art network a new marketplace forms and content producers can interact directly with their customers. We can remove the whole hollywood value chain model and replace it with direct content delivery.

The linch pin of the whole concept relies on state of the art networks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23086268 Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:30:57 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23084834 said by Boogeyman:

I'm more concerned with his obsession with having glass fibers inserted rectally. Well, you know those Asians and their freaky ways.

I guess the metaphor was lost on people.

While piracy was a factor in the jump from 56k to broadband, it was a very small one.

One word for you, Napster.

The only reason why I went to high speed back in '98 was for warez. That 256/64 pipe kicked ass.

Right now, BitTorrent and it's derivative uses is the killer app driving bigger and bigger pipes. The ease of use drives more and more idiots to sucking down bandwidth. Back in the day, warez was more of an art and required a bit of knowledge, like knowing how to combine news group parts, compression schemes, and multipart archives. Now, you go to Mininova, download a file, and everything comes in.

As more and more pirates get online, they start saturating the pipe. They leave it on while they are away, running full boar all the time. Video, even in it's most crazy uncompressed size, doesn't compare. At least video stops sometimes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23084834 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 22:05:41 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23084188 said by Boogeyman:

You must not get out, answer the phone, or especially, read the net, much. ;)

Remember, ignorance is everywhere. And someone, somewhere, thinks you are ignorant..
i concede that I am ignorant. there is a difference.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23084188 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:33:23 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23084179
Remember, ignorance is everywhere. And someone, somewhere, thinks you are ignorant..
--
Im Your Boogeyman, Thats What I Am]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23084179 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:31:41 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23084161
He has a point though. While piracy was a factor in the jump from 56k to broadband, it was a very small one. I remember waiting minutes for pages to load, especially if they had a lot of graphical content. For me, the ability to check the news and my email and all that in less than an hour was the big draw to broadband.

But now? The only time I have to wait, is when I am downloading large files. Streaming video works great, even on multiple pc's on the same connection. With even a 30mbps you can stream mutiple HD streams. Sure they are crap quality, but until more than just 20% (number was pulled from the same location where Korean WoW gold farmers put there fiber connections) of internet users can even get a connection greater than 10mbps, the content providers really have no incentive to offer it any faster or at a better quality.
--
Im Your Boogeyman, Thats What I Am]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23084161 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:27:58 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23083886 said by backness:

First, who do you think you are that you can tell someone what their reasons for wanting a fast connection are? OK, so you tell us what your need for a fast connection is...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23083886 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 18:21:20 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23083870 said by Gbcue:

said by tschmidt:

said by Luminaris:

So what's the point of other countries having 2-3X the speed we have then? Is it a need? That's what I wonder.

Is it really a Chicken/Egg problem?

Remember when everybody was going from dial-up to broadband? Was it done for fun? No, it was done because application providers were already thinking of the future.

The same needs to be done for broadband speed. When people get fed up of waiting for an HD stream to load over their 10Mbit connection, they'll soon jump, like how we all did to broadband.
The first people I knew who got broadband (that neat new service from the phone company called a "digital subscriber line") got it to run FTP sites to trade pirated music files.

I honestly didn't begin to see applications that needed broadband until after 2002 or so. Maybe there were, but I didn't see them.

100Mbps isn't really needed for HD streaming video right now. In fact you can do that on a 10M connection with MPEG4 compression. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23083870 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 18:18:30 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23083309 said by psx_defector:

Do we hear:

"People in Amsterdam get to smoke pot and screw hookers all day. Why doesn't America allow that? They ain't being competitive!!!!"
Well it would solve a lot of money issues with our gov. and would have a lot less people in our crowded prisons. Which the people are starting to realize and why there is such a push for re-legalizing pot and don't get me started on hookers. There's a profession that has been there since the dawn of time for men.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23083309 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 17:46:45 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23083039 said by tschmidt:

said by Luminaris:

So what's the point of other countries having 2-3X the speed we have then? Is it a need? That's what I wonder.

Residential speed is a chicken N egg problem.

Application and service providers are not going to develop applications that need very high speed until there is a large enough population of users to justify it. If we were all still constrained to dialup most of the applications and services we take for granted today would not be practical.

Video libraries and video on demand is very demanding. HD feed requires about 15 Mbps. For a family of four the sweet spot is 100 Mbps. 3-D when it happens will need even more bandwidth.

Telecommuting is popular but often limited by how quickly data flows between employee and office.

New immersive games and virtual reality all require high capacity fast connections.

Ultimately the upper bound is driven by human physiology and compression algorithms.

/tom
Is it really a Chicken/Egg problem?

Remember when everybody was going from dial-up to broadband? Was it done for fun? No, it was done because application providers were already thinking of the future.

The same needs to be done for broadband speed. When people get fed up of waiting for an HD stream to load over their 10Mbit connection, they'll soon jump, like how we all did to broadband.
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Black Friday Ads]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23083039 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 17:05:03 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23083370 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23083370 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:26:41 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23082937 said by backness:

First, who do you think you are that you can tell someone what their reasons for wanting a fast connection are? Because that's what people do with their connections. Don't act like it's not.

Second, the equiment costs are based on a global marketplace.

No, they are not. A good example. I'm buying a Draytek Vigor 2820Vn. I can get it for either $250US or £180GBP. It comes from the same factory in mainland China, but what's the difference in cost? Regulatory difference make for a lot of cost difference between countries. Not only in bandwidth costs, but CPE and core infrastructure.

So if it is possible in Sweeden it is possible in Los Angles.

Never said it wasn't, but don't expect to get a 100Gbps fiber drop in Bumblefuck, VA. There is no way that it's cost effective.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23082937 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:12:11 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23082829 said by psx_defector:

said by Luminaris:

Wow, just, WOW. Dude, you got issues

Only issue I got is people demanding ridiculous levels of bandwidth for absolutely no reason.

First, who do you think you are that you can tell someone what their reasons for wanting a fast connection are?

Second, the equiment costs are based on a global marketplace.

So if it is possible in Sweeden it is possible in Los Angles.

Please get off your soap box]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23082829 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:54:56 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23082607 said by Luminaris:

Wow, just, WOW. Dude, you got issues
Only issue I got is people demanding ridiculous levels of bandwidth for absolutely no reason.

"People in Korea get 100Gbps shoved up their asses where ever they go, why doesn't AT&T do that for me in Bumblefuck, VA? They ain't being competitive!!"

Do we hear:

"People in Amsterdam get to smoke pot and screw hookers all day. Why doesn't America allow that? They ain't being competitive!!!!"

Every market is different. People need to quit thinking that something half way around the world has any bearing on what we do here in the States.

You don't need 100Mbps. Don't give me crap about video, VPNers, and games driving the need for more bandwidth. Piracy was the killer app for broadband expansion at the beginning of the decade, and piracy is the killer app that will drive broadband expansion into the next. For every bit of bandwidth you spend looking at videos, I bet you there are two or three BitTorrent client running full boar up and down.

Verizon has the ability to provide the mythical 100Gbps fiber run up your ass. Normal people don't need it, normal people don't want it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23082607 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:21:33 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23082396 said by Luminaris:

So what's the point of other countries having 2-3X the speed we have then? Is it a need? That's what I wonder. Residential speed is a chicken N egg problem.

Application and service providers are not going to develop applications that need very high speed until there is a large enough population of users to justify it. If we were all still constrained to dialup most of the applications and services we take for granted today would not be practical.

Video libraries and video on demand is very demanding. HD feed requires about 15 Mbps. For a family of four the sweet spot is 100 Mbps. 3-D when it happens will need even more bandwidth.

Telecommuting is popular but often limited by how quickly data flows between employee and office.

New immersive games and virtual reality all require high capacity fast connections.

Ultimately the upper bound is driven by human physiology and compression algorithms.

/tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23082396 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:53:32 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23082129 said by psx_defector:

said by Luminaris:

How about faster speeds to keep pace with the rest of the world?

Who gives a shit about the rest of the world? Just because some Korean WoW gold miner demands an 100Gbps optical connection shoved up his ass doesn't mean squat for Billy Bob in the backwoods of Virgina.

Innovation?

Is bendable fiber NOT innovation?

How about trying to outpace countries with much faster speeds?

See Korean WoW gold miner.

I guess that doesn't mean much to ISP's here in the U.S.

Just as the US market means squat to the rest of the world. The Australian and UK markets don't capitulate to demands from the rest of the world telling them to go unmetered. Belgium doesn't give a rats ass that some Sweedish pirate has fiber to the home. Someone from South Africa doesn't care that his neighbor country just to the north doesn't have ANY broadband.

Every market is different. And we are not the typical broadband user. Just because people on dslreports.com are clamoring for the 100Gbps optical link shoved up our asses doesn't mean that the users in Bumblefuck, VA demand it, or even someone next door.
Hi Ignorant America! Haven't talked to you in awhile.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23082129 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:14:46 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23082126 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23082126 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:14:21 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23082004 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23082004 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:54:02 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23081935 said by Luminaris:

How about faster speeds to keep pace with the rest of the world? Who gives a shit about the rest of the world? Just because some Korean WoW gold miner demands an 100Gbps optical connection shoved up his ass doesn't mean squat for Billy Bob in the backwoods of Virgina.

Innovation?

Is bendable fiber NOT innovation?

How about trying to outpace countries with much faster speeds?

See Korean WoW gold miner.

I guess that doesn't mean much to ISP's here in the U.S.

Just as the US market means squat to the rest of the world. The Australian and UK markets don't capitulate to demands from the rest of the world telling them to go unmetered. Belgium doesn't give a rats ass that some Sweedish pirate has fiber to the home. Someone from South Africa doesn't care that his neighbor country just to the north doesn't have ANY broadband.

Every market is different. And we are not the typical broadband user. Just because people on dslreports.com are clamoring for the 100Gbps optical link shoved up our asses doesn't mean that the users in Bumblefuck, VA demand it, or even someone next door.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23081935 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:42:40 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23081884 said by KillABrew:

Your points sound more like wants than needs.

Is keeping up with the Jones a reason to do it?
So what's the point of other countries having 2-3X the speed we have then? Is it a need? That's what I wonder. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23081884 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:34:24 EDT Re: Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23081825
Is keeping up with the Jones a reason to do it?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Keeping-pace-23081825 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:21:30 EDT Keeping pace http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Keeping-pace-23081798 --
De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da, that's all I want to say to you ..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Keeping-pace-23081798 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:15:08 EDT