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anwaypasible

join:2007-11-09
Kankakee, IL
kudos:1

alleviate conflict w/ neighbors overpowering antenna

i am connected to the local newspapers wi-fi service.
they offer monthly service for $19.95 (and they advertise speeds of upto a T1 connection)
**actually.. i have seen speeds as high as 6mbit/s down and 2mbit/s up**

my problem:
sometimes my ping jumps through the roof and i get kicked from multiplayer game servers for having a high ping average (usually the servers are set to kick anybody above 200ms)

what i can gather:
1. my CRC errors are high, and they come and go throughout the day AND night. the link quality bar in the hawking wireless utility 'Displays connection quality based on signal strength and TX/RX packet error rate.'
(this bar is always going up & down)

the statistics tab shows this (rounded numbers)

TRANSMIT
frames transmitted successfully: 3,000,000
frames retransmitted successfully: 1,000,000
frames fail to receive ACK after all retries: 53
(these bottom two never change despite having RTS enabled/disabled in the profile settings)
RTS frames successfully receive CTS: 0
RTS frames fail to receive CTS: 0

RECEIVE
frames received successfully: 4,000,000
frames received with CRC error: 2,000,000
frames dropped due to out-of-resource: 0
duplicate frames received: 5,000

2. i have a DIRECTIONAL antenna pointed directly at the wi-fi access point (clear view between access point antenna and my antenna - minus a wall that seperates me from outside)

i added a plastic cup to my hawking hwdn2 wifi adapter and IT DOES help.. my signal was -88dBm to -78dBm without the cup, and now i am seeing signals averaging -76dBm to as low as -72dBm with the plastic cup installed.

BUT.. here's the kicker:
i am on channel 7 and somebody close-by is on channel 6.
remember i am seeing signals -76dBm to -74dBm, yet the neighbor on channel 6 is showing signals of -46dBm to as low as -32dBm..!

i live in a house that appears to have been transformed into a 6 unit apartment (2 units on each floor.. with me in the bi-level basement)
so i put a note on the front door asking if anybody had a wireless router on channel 6, i gave the SSID and MAC address of the signal on the scan results.
well, i came back the next day and the note had been taken down with no reply.. nor did the over-bearing signal change the operating frequency.

..maybe it is the house next door, i wonder.
certainly i cannot ask the local newspaper to change their access point channel because one stubborn antenna close-by is over-bearing.

i only have two shots at a clear view of the access point antenna, one that shaves right past the neighbors front porch to *just-left* of the corner of the building i'm (about 1.5ft of width)
and then there is a gap in the front bushes that allows me to direct the antenna through the front wall of the building.
i am lucky enough to be on the correct side of the building, so there is only the wall that seperates me from the outside to go through.

i have managed to get -72dBm from both spots, but both spots also report a very unstable link quality (it jumps from 80% down to 69% all day & night long.. and seldomly it goes into the 50's)

i've tried turning on/off RTS
i've tried turning on/off fragmentation
i've tried turning on/off tx burst

i am thinking the over-bearing antenna on channel 6 may be providing conflict with my connection (maybe the cause of the CRC errors, and/or maybe the cause of my pings going sky high)

i have been hot & bothered by this situation until the point of itching.
if i run a command prompt and ping the access point.. i can average 3ms (sometimes)
i can play the multiplayer video game that i want and i have seen a ping as low as 12ms.. infact i played on a server one night that was showing 13ms for the whole time i was there.
other servers show 30ms pings.

BUT.. the ping will jump to 70ms / 150ms / 200-something / 300-something / 400-something / up to 700-something ms

I CANNOT NOTICE A PATTERN that would justify a telephone ringing or a microwave being used.. the ONLY thing i can grasp is the link quality bar going up & down over and over again all day / all night.

of course i have tried to move the antenna everything imaginable until i got the receive signal strength (and then the link quality was terrible.. so i would move the antenna some more thinking i was receiving an echoed/bounced signal)

as of now.. i have the antenna pointed 'just-right' and the information that i am getting is as good as i can get it.
the link quality is usually in the 70% area and sometimes it jumps to 80% area.. BUT SOMETIMES IT DROPS INTO THE 60% area (and it is driving me nuts).

should i go knocking on the house next door and ask if they have a wireless router?

can i ask the local police to serve the owners of the over-bearing antenna a demand to change their operating channel?

my lease says i am not supposed to be in contact with any of the residence in the apartment.. and since i have already asked and received no reply, i may have to find an alternative to kicking in their door while they arent home and hunting down the MAC address that shows up on my scan results.

i dont want to be rude, and if it were me i'd know that changing my operating channel is easy (and harmless as long as there are no over-bearing antennas close to the NEW frequency i was being requested to switch to).

my worst fear is.. i go knocking on the house next door and they say 'we dont own a wireless router' so then i have an abundance of liars and uncooperative neighbors interfering with my $19.95 subscription.

one time i was threatened online by a local resident, and i called the police to report the threat and the cop said 'you are wasting our time'
so maybe i am asking for a password to get the local police to serve purpose and offer somebody a nuisance ticket for refusing to change their wireless router operating frequency.

the access point i am connecting to is about 300-400ft away (just halfway down the block, atop a fire station inbetween streets)

i could really use some help in moving forward rather than showing the mystery MAC address how irritated i am.
i'm hoping someone can offer me some light in this dark corner i've been pushed to.
--
windows xp home sp3
local wi-fi being offered by the daily journal (at&t)
hawking hwdn2 plugged into ULTRA self-powered usb hub



No_Strings
Premium,MVM,Ex-Mod 2008-13
join:2001-11-22
The OC
kudos:6

Wireless networking + on-line gaming = frustration.

Under the best circumstances, it's simply a poor medium for anything requiring low pings.

I think the best thing you can do to maximize your connection is to get a more directional antenna. Something like this:
»www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=22370

A very high gain antenna will "ignore" more of the stray stuff you don't want and pick up a narrow beam from the intended source.



anwaypasible

join:2007-11-09
Kankakee, IL
kudos:1

said by No_Strings:

Wireless networking + on-line gaming = frustration.

Under the best circumstances, it's simply a poor medium for anything requiring low pings.

you absolutely have got to be kidding me.. i JUST FREAKIN TOLD YOU that i was able to play battlefield 2142 for like 2 hours on a server that showed me a ping of 13ms/14ms.
i couldnt get any better ping response back when i had 8mbit/s comcast cable *with powerboost*

i dont like discrediting people.. but you left me no choice.

besides, i have already thought about getting an external antenna and i cant afford it.

since i've stated that my connection has given me 6mbit/s down and 2mbit/s up (although intermittent problems with CRC errors and sky high ping jumps) i'd like to hear some advice from somebody else.
(somebody willing to dispute signal interference/conflict rather than tell me my situation is self-suffice and i deserve the frustrations because 'wireless networking + gaming = frustration' AND THEN OFFER ME A WIRELESS ANTENNA)

i'd like to add that the cup i am using is about 7 inches tall and 4 inches around.

i know what i am using is filed under the 'toy' category, and i would purchase an external antenna (with an amplifier) if i had the money.
owning the hwdn2 has given me a 768kbit/s down connection from access points over 1,000 feet away.
the 'toy' does a very good job at sucking a lot of bandwidth from a barely non-existant receive signal.
after-all, the hwnd2 is in the 'high-gain' class of hawking products, there is probably some advanced modulation scheme on the system board too.. because that signal that was over 1,000ft away was only like 10% - 15% in receive strength (said the hawking software)

and after measuring the cup and bumping the antenna just now, i looked at the hawking utility to see if i made the connection worse.. and it showed a quick reading of -70dBm.

my noise strength is sitting at -92dBm
doesnt that bar indicate static/interference in the signal??
(and especially so, if indeed the bar DOES indicate static/interference.. i have a serious packet problem rather than a lack of antenna)

my fear all along is that the signal is good, but the packet collisions and overall packet tx/rx errors are being beaten around by the over-bearing antenna on channel 6.
--
windows xp home sp3
local wi-fi being offered by the daily journal (at&t)
hawking hwdn2 plugged into ULTRA self-powered usb hub


No_Strings
Premium,MVM,Ex-Mod 2008-13
join:2001-11-22
The OC
kudos:6

I hope you find the magic you're looking for.



anwaypasible

join:2007-11-09
Kankakee, IL
kudos:1

aww jeez.. if somebody is reading this and knows what is going on but are bound to silence by a contract, at least tell me 'i know your problem precisely but i am not able to speak about a resolution'

ever find yourself asking for advice in such a manner?
i've done it a lot.. and thinking back, i've not seen any service technicians who can resolve the deep questions i find.

i dunno if they are unwilling to answer or if they are bound by contract to keep silent.
i dont constantly have the desire to learn, i hate the irritation when it arises. (although the term constant must be defined, because sometimes i go on 'how it works' crash courses.

sheesh, the only reason's i've seen these courses have a 'crash' is because when it is time to fix any stress/irritation EVERYBODY IS SILENT (or they are just consumers)
--
windows xp home sp3
local wi-fi being offered by the daily journal (at&t)
hawking hwdn2 plugged into ULTRA self-powered usb hub



cacroll
Eventually, Prozac becomes normal
Premium
join:2002-07-25
Martinez, CA

I'm sure that your Hawking assembly is a wonderful piece of professional gear. If you've done any reading in these forums, though, you'll know that your personal network equipment is not always the most important factor in your WiFi connectivity.

Your neighbours, which you can do nothing about, are the most important factor. And your neighbours are a transient factor. One minute, you could be the only person on the channel, and the next, there could be half a dozen networks on the channel.

And you do know that the frequencies used by the 11 (US) channels overlap, so you can use channel 7, and you will be getting noise from channel 6.

And all of that will contribute to low bandwidth and high latency, which, as I said, will be a transient effect.

So you can go ahead and ignore No_Strings advice, if you wish. And you can whine all that you want. But you really should drink less coffee, learn to use the Shift key when you start paragraphs and sentences, and listen to his advice.

»networking.nitecruzr.net/2006/05···dth.html

»networking.nitecruzr.net/2009/04···ore.html
--
Cheers,
Chuck
MS-MVP 2005-2009 [Windows - Desktop Experience]
Nitecruzr Dot Net


cacroll
Eventually, Prozac becomes normal
Premium
join:2002-07-25
Martinez, CA
reply to anwaypasible

BTW, I extracted some of your more intriguing observations.

i live in a house that appears to have been transformed into a 6 unit apartment (2 units on each floor.. with me in the bi-level basement)
so i put a note on the front door asking if anybody had a wireless router on channel 6, i gave the SSID and MAC address of the signal on the scan results.
well, i came back the next day and the note had been taken down with no reply.. nor did the over-bearing signal change the operating frequency.

should i go knocking on the house next door and ask if they have a wireless router?

can i ask the local police to serve the owners of the over-bearing antenna a demand to change their operating channel?

my lease says i am not supposed to be in contact with any of the residence in the apartment.. and since i have already asked and received no reply, i may have to find an alternative to kicking in their door while they arent home and hunting down the MAC address that shows up on my scan results.
If I was your landlord, and I found an anonymous note stuck to the front door, that's what I would have done, too.

No, you can't go knocking on the house next door.

No, you can't ask the local police for help.

And no, you shouldn't contact the other tenants, or kick in their door (whose door?).

Now, if you still desire advice, we can discuss triangulating, and objectively finding the problem source. If you're interested.
--
Cheers,
Chuck
MS-MVP 2005-2009 [Windows - Desktop Experience]
Nitecruzr Dot Net


anwaypasible

join:2007-11-09
Kankakee, IL
kudos:1

said by cacroll:

No, you can't go knocking on the house next door.

No, you can't ask the local police for help.

And no, you shouldn't contact the other tenants, or kick in their door (whose door?).

Now, if you still desire advice, we can discuss triangulating, and objectively finding the problem source. If you're interested.
nobody in their right mind would want to hear your nonsense after 1 count of personal liberty infringement and 1 count of insuing fear into society.

you know damn well i have already tried to move the antenna for the best possible receive strength, therefore you speaking of 'triangulating' must be merely an egotistical flaunt at social structure.. to the likes of negativity i've seen you waste.

you are just as much of a nuisance much like a neighbors over-bearing antenna.. coming into my thread flaunting to having intelligence, YET NOT SPEAKING WITH SUCH INTELLIGENCE.
instead you tease about how you have the means to help, but you didnt get straight to the point.

add a count of harassment.. another count of social neglect.. another count of social bullyism.

and since i see the system handing out warnings.. i'll be sure to cover every aspect of why you need a warning yourself:
claiming to have the means to help, but only teasing those capabilities rather than actually providing is like watching a broken water pipe leak water and saying 'there are three ways off the top of my head to fix that.. and any one of them will cost less than $5'

your procrastination will have you knee-high in water.
--
windows xp home sp3
local wi-fi being offered by the daily journal (at&t)
hawking hwdn2 plugged into ULTRA self-powered usb hub

stevech0

join:2006-09-17
San Diego, CA

1 edit
reply to anwaypasible

Looks OK to me, for wireless
TRANSMIT
frames transmitted successfully: 3,000,000
frames retransmitted successfully: 1,000,000
frames fail to receive ACK after all retries: 53
(these bottom two never change despite having RTS enabled/disabled in the profile settings)
RTS frames successfully receive CTS: 0
RTS frames fail to receive CTS: 0

RECEIVE
frames received successfully: 4,000,000
frames received with CRC error: 2,000,000
frames dropped due to out-of-resource: 0
duplicate frames received: 5,000

---
Those of us that pay $45/mo or so for very fast Cable modem service get much better. Be happy you pay $20.

Very long ping times - You Get What You Pay For.



Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

4 edits
reply to anwaypasible

Click for full size
estimated map of my coverage area *
i did online gamming with 21% signal quality

but i did OVER Power them by using my Buffalo WHR-HP-G54

HP = HIGH POWER!

i also used to use it to kill peoples OTA TV

Link to BEST ROUTER EVER made in the whole world!~!!!
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···r-hp-g54

it has both RX & TX amp i can get a signal for upto 2 squareblocks*

*depends on objects in the way
I even made a map of my coverage area

mapped using High POWERED WiFi card (400mW)


anwaypasible

join:2007-11-09
Kankakee, IL
kudos:1
reply to stevech0

i was thinking the exact same thing.. but i started developing a desire for help when i realized that the service being provided is all there, and that the drawbacks i am seeing are beyond the wifi provider.
therefore with the problems being beyond the wifi provider, then those problems must be mine within the confinement of my setup.

seeing as how my setup is holding me back rather than the wifi provider's service.. i am inclined to get the full potential out of the service i paid for.
afterall.. i am seeing their antenna and their antenna is seeing me (well, at least i think it is seeing me)

i am still working to alleviate anything between me and the access point antenna.

i dont know what better way to say,
i paid for access to the access point that is indeed seen by my wireless adapter.. having to battle any static/interference that comes between me and the access point is just low gain or bad modulation.

quite frankly, i've been pushing my thoughts towards modulation as of recently.
--
windows xp home sp3
local wi-fi being offered by the daily journal (at&t)
hawking hwdn2 plugged into ULTRA self-powered usb hub



CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

This is the problem with wireless - it can be great one minute then horrible the next. I find it funny you are complaining about it so much then when you hear the truth you scream to high heaven.

Go to the landlord - see if they will do anything about the router. If not - find a new place to live and if the landlord gets the person to change the channel you might be ok - possibly till someone else fires up a router.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain



cacroll
Eventually, Prozac becomes normal
Premium
join:2002-07-25
Martinez, CA
reply to anwaypasible

said by anwaypasible:

nobody in their right mind would want to hear your nonsense after 1 count of personal liberty infringement and 1 count of insuing fear into society.

you know damn well i have already tried to move the antenna for the best possible receive strength, therefore you speaking of 'triangulating' must be merely an egotistical flaunt at social structure.. to the likes of negativity i've seen you waste.

you are just as much of a nuisance much like a neighbors over-bearing antenna.. coming into my thread flaunting to having intelligence, YET NOT SPEAKING WITH SUCH INTELLIGENCE.
instead you tease about how you have the means to help, but you didnt get straight to the point.

add a count of harassment.. another count of social neglect.. another count of social bullyism.

and since i see the system handing out warnings.. i'll be sure to cover every aspect of why you need a warning yourself:
claiming to have the means to help, but only teasing those capabilities rather than actually providing is like watching a broken water pipe leak water and saying 'there are three ways off the top of my head to fix that.. and any one of them will cost less than $5'

your procrastination will have you knee-high in water.


I recommended triangulation, so you can intelligently decide whether your problem is in the house with you, or outside.

If you were to use NetStumbler, or another graphing WiFi environment analysis tool, with a portable WiFi device, you could objectively determine where your problem is. Rather than guessing, and trying to involve your landlord.

But you'll have to use diplomacy after you locate the "problem". The police won't get involved, except maybe to haul you off to jail after you kick down somebody's door.

You may have to understand that you have no more right to use the band than anybody else, your paying $19.95 / month won't interest the police one bit.

»networking.nitecruzr.net/2006/08···ifi.html
--
Cheers,
Chuck
MS-MVP 2005-2009 [Windows - Desktop Experience]
Nitecruzr Dot Net


cacroll
Eventually, Prozac becomes normal
Premium
join:2002-07-25
Martinez, CA
reply to CylonRed

said by CylonRed:

This is the problem with wireless - it can be great one minute then horrible the next. I find it funny you are complaining about it so much then when you hear the truth you scream to high heaven.

Go to the landlord - see if they will do anything about the router. If not - find a new place to live and if the landlord gets the person to change the channel you might be ok - possibly till someone else fires up a router.


The fun part is - he has no confirmation that the problem is in the house with him. For all that he knows, it could be down the block.
--
Cheers,
Chuck
MS-MVP 2005-2009 [Windows - Desktop Experience]
Nitecruzr Dot Net


nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to anwaypasible

so i put a note on the front door asking if anybody had a wireless router on channel 6, i gave the SSID and MAC address of the signal on the scan results.
If somebody put up a note in my neighborhood that mentioned my SSID and MAC, then I would just completely ignore the note. If I had wanted to announce what was my network, I would have used an SSID that identified. I prefer to remain anonymous, so would ignore any such note.
can i ask the local police to serve the owners of the over-bearing antenna a demand to change their operating channel?
If the police came knocking on my door about my WiFi signal, I would politely tell them that as far as I know it is within FCC requirements, and that I am not breaking any laws.

If a neighbor came and politely asked me to change channels, then I might do that. However, if same neighbor had already tried calling the police about the issue, I would probably tell them to just change their own channel.

What it amounts to, is that you are trying to use a marginal connection. Any problems with that connection are your problems, not your neighbor's problems. Either learn to live with it, or get a different ISP.
--
AT&T dsl; Speedstream 5100b modem; Zyxel NBG334W router; openSuSE 11.0; firefox 3.0.14

stevech0

join:2006-09-17
San Diego, CA

2 edits

Such is life in the unlicensed, shared-use RF spectrum!

WISPs using unlicensed are violating the premise of 2.4GHz unlicensed wireless LANs - ethernet LAN replacement indoors.

Some countries in the world have now set FCC-equivalent regulations prohibiting (with fines) outdoor 2.4GHz.

WiFi will be the Citizen's Band of the 21st century soon. Esp. if 11n at 40MHz prevails).

You do have recourse to the US FCC and can file a complaint if you can prove that someone is radiating more than the permitted max power - which is up to 4Watts with directional antennas. In most other countries, the limits are far lower.


toker815

join:2009-02-16

said by stevech0:

WiFi will be the Citizen's Band of the 21st century soon. Esp. if 11n at 40MHz prevails).
You mean it isn't there already??? lol

Actually I'm noticing the GMRS radio band getting pretty crowded too. Every time some friends and I go to use them we have a harder and harder time finding an open channel. And that's without having to deal with the jerk-offs that think its funny to move over to other channels just to yell obscenities..


anwaypasible

join:2007-11-09
Kankakee, IL
kudos:1

in america you are free until you become a nuisance.. i dont see why the 2.4ghz spectrum should be any different.

i'm not here trying to put in a vote about views or beliefs.

and this situation could be considered outright normal when neighbors disagree and dont get along comfortably.
what is the first thing i think of when a neighbor is being annoying, a nuisance ticket from the local police department.. meaning fines for people who are sloppy with their 'free-to-use 2.4ghz' bandwidth spectrum.

sure it is free to use, but it isnt free to maintain!!
just ask all the modulation designers who write software for chips, you'd think the case would be closed after making it thus far.

but the hardware designers had to make an option for end-users to choose which channel they would like to be on, and therefore the hardware designers have given humans the right to be polite or obscene (and it is now their own free-will making decisions, not Carrier sense multiple access with collision avoidance)

free-will has LONG been problematic, and it is the reason why the earth has a judicial system.
i fear from the amount of people posting in this thread that speak as though they are totally numb from any judicial standpoint.

all the while, Carrier sense multiple access with collision avoidance is supposed to alleviate network congestion by adding overhead.. and if people had bench test results that confirmed the algorithm ALWAYS works, then i would be able to go on my merry way with seeking electronic interference from a source other than some neighbors wifi antenna that speaks out of turn causing annoyance to anyone in the local viscinity.

stevech0 pointed out a good point, that, the access point i am on may not be FCC licensed.
and/or the wifi adapter i recieved may not be FCC licensed.
..maybe the over-bearing antenna i'm seeing may or may not be FCC licensed.

there have been a lot of negative connotations in this thread, and making positive steps forward are all but a mear social science (social mathematical algorithms really) projected by those within this thread.

i suspect on a better day, these people point problems to a service in which they see a percentage of income.. no matter if that income is to inflate their wallet or simply to inflate their ego.

i'm a very broad wide-angled person and can teach from many different angles.. so i know that there is no place for being rude when teaching somebody, doesnt matter if those methods are algebraic or trigonometry a.k.a. triangulating - the social algorithm.

social law is on the rise far stronger and far more important than the internet and all the electronics that help people communicate with eachother.
because afterall, what good is having all these electronics to communicate with other people if the human species cannot go about themselves in a community manner.

rudeness is for punishment.. and will power is for positive progress.
unfortunately, will-power is one of those 'bipolar' words because one's will can be used for positive or negative.

and if this over-bearing antenna is using 'negative will power' i want to know about it and slim down the negativity.

besides, it doesnt take a genius to know that using an omni-directional antenna can ruin your social life.
it is polite and considerate to use a directional antenna so when other people try to use the spectrum that you are using (as such in likely the same manner) they wont run into problems/annoyances/irritation.

using an omni-directional antenna is a lack of consideration, or a lack of thoughtfulness.

i see lots and lots of consideration in this thread, but i dont see the thoughtfulness that glues the world together to be as one.
it makes me smile to think even an infant baby can be considerate when grabbing for things, but it takes true intelligence to be thoughtful.
i'm ashamed that a thoughtful human being is considered 'genuine' and 'above-normal'
and i'm outraged that thoughtful human beings are being beaten/battered by social misfits.. as did happen in this forum thread.
--
windows xp home sp3
local wi-fi being offered by the daily journal (at&t)
hawking hwdn2 plugged into ULTRA self-powered usb hub



nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

For what it's worth, I use a Faraday cage* so that my neighbors are not much affected by my WiFi signal.

* that is to say, my house has aluminum siding.
--
AT&T dsl; Speedstream 5100b modem; Zyxel NBG334W router; openSuSE 11.0; firefox 3.0.14



anwaypasible

join:2007-11-09
Kankakee, IL
kudos:1

said by nwrickert:

For what it's worth, I use a Faraday cage* so that my neighbors are not much affected by my WiFi signal.

* that is to say, my house has aluminum siding.
i just concocted a sheet of generic heavy-duty aluminum foil inside an envelope.
i did this twice.. then i put one envelop on top of my computers sound card, then i put another envelop beneath the sound card on the pc case floor (my soundcard is in the bottom pci slot)
the treble has made a significant improvement in clarity on this creative xfi (sounds like the treble was slurring before, and now it sounds as if the treble is less 'wild' and therefore has direction.. now sizzling ;D)

speaking of faraday cage*
have you ever stood in one that cancels out your bodys natural energy?
i have.. and it made me feel heavy on my feet (and lite on my arms)

a regular walk-in faraday cage can be cool when there is lots of electricity in the air just before stepping inside.. but a faraday cage* that polar-cancels the bodys natural energy is wicked dull.
(an excellent place for foreplay)

the outside of this building is rock/glue/plastor mix.

for what its worth..
i was two blocks away from this apartment building at the muffler shop and i was on the 2.4ghz spectrum, the same SSID showed up over there too.
although the signal was very low with the wifi adapter i was using (inexq ur012i).
the hawking hwdn2 picked up the signal better at the same location, but i havent tested to see just how much radiation is located where.. so like somebody said, i dont know exactly where the signal is radiating.
could be an omni-antenna.. could be a directional antenna pointing south (i havent setup the laptop to hunt the antenna down).

i have been thinking about filling up some more envelopes and wrapping them around the cup on the hwdn2.. but i dont see any point because -76dBm is giving me a link quality of 88% OR 65%.. and the antenna hasnt budged a millimeter.

fyi.. if your foam insulation that is tacked to the side of your house under the aluminum siding, if that foam is electrically conductive.. you may have a capacitor/amplifier wrapped around the walls of your house.

i know some plastics/foams can hold static energy very very well.. but you'll know when you have a cellular phone inside that wont work unless you are close to a window.

christ.. the house i was living at with my mother, that house was over 100 years old and the reception inside/outside was terribly bad.
and i know it was bad because we had a giant brick wall 20ft from the side of the house to bounce signals off of.. and then there were trees to the front of the house.. and a neighbors house just 5ft next door.
3 different cell phones would drop to 1 bar / no service inside that house, and would only get 2 bars outside on the front sidewalk.
trying to pull television signals via over-the-air was a nightmare, we were lucky to see movements in the snow.

oh, but the antenna that was on top of the house.. that thing pulled in about 4 television stations with interference in the picture.
cordless phones would grow static just 100ft away from the base, but i think the house was obviously ment for the already trained.. rather than someone teach me, he-who willing to learn.

the house leaked heat bad.. the temperature would fall 4 degrees every 15 minutes.

i used a program called xirrus wifi inspector and the program got the access point brand name right, it is a dlink.
the same program said the ssid on my scan results is a motorola.

what i know is, if the motorola is higher than their consumer division of products AND is not working together with the local newspaper to provide wifi service.. that is business infringement.

and around here, they treat the local newspaper as a public utility in the illinois statue of law.
i am mildly thinking about somebody commiting a class 4/2 felony.

thinking about faraday cages.. there are materials that literally suck-up electrical activity and diminish it, and then there are materials that simply bounce the electricity.
sometimes the material that sucks up the electrical activity has to be grounded to something because the material is incapable of diminishing the electricity on its own (sounds like a resistance/ohm problem.. if you have the high ohm material, the electricity will diminish).

factors and values are scarce with such procrastination.
being reminded of my solitude is eventful to some social bullies.
--
windows xp home sp3
local wi-fi being offered by the daily journal (at&t)
hawking hwdn2 plugged into ULTRA self-powered usb hub

stevech0

join:2006-09-17
San Diego, CA

Some WISPs use Motorola's Canopy products for the 902-928MHz or 2.4 or 5.8GHz bands. All unlicensed. Canopy is the model-T of wireless.

By the way, is user anwaypasible a philosophy major?



cacroll
Eventually, Prozac becomes normal
Premium
join:2002-07-25
Martinez, CA

1 recommendation

said by stevech0:

is user anwaypasible a philosophy major?


»/profile/1501562
ask me about:
bipolar disorder / chemical imbalances / ergonomics / logic / design / development / psychology / Project MKULTRA / innovation
I think bipolar disorder / chemical imbalances is more obvious.
--
Cheers,
Chuck
MS-MVP 2005-2009 [Windows - Desktop Experience]
Nitecruzr Dot Net


anwaypasible

join:2007-11-09
Kankakee, IL
kudos:1

2 edits


wifi situation
 
Click for full size
wifi speedtest
said by cacroll:

said by stevech0:

is user anwaypasible a philosophy major?
»/profile/1501562
ask me about:
bipolar disorder / chemical imbalances / ergonomics / logic / design / development / psychology / Project MKULTRA / innovation
I think bipolar disorder / chemical imbalances is more obvious.
no, mr. off-topic.. what is bloody obvious is a ping of 70ms jumping to 600ms.
what is obvious is a -74dBm (-88dBm without fine tuning) signal receive strength that has a link quality of 90% and then drops to 57% no matter if it is some-time mid day or some-time after 11pm.

what isnt so obvious is when the link quality is only jumping 10% rather than the above 33% fluctuation.
there is no ethical excuse for such drastic changes in line quality.

..maybe it is only 220ft between me and the antenna, i will post an aerial picture in a moment.

there is nobody standing between the antenna and my wireless adapter.. and the receive signal strength reflects that.
and what i mean is, the signal may go from -72 or -74 and drop to -76 or -78 (which i dont think is much) but the line quality.. well that 33% fluctuation would make me think my receive signal has gone from -74 to -86; something more drastic like the antenna being twisted away from the access point, but that is not the case.

and i'm not putting all my blame on the SSID that is one channel away from me.
i find it kinda funny that if i take my directional antenna and rotate it 90 degrees at a time until i reach a full 360, the SSID on channel 6 only dropped -2dBm (-42 down to -44dBm)

some more details about my situation..
while on 802.11b i receive 11mbit/s connection for both transmit and receive.
while on 802.11g i receive 24mbit/s connection for transmit and 11mbit/s for receive.

watching the hawking wireless utility, it literally looks like someone is trying to bludgen my connection to death.
and i thought signals were supposed to get better at night.
doesnt matter much though because as i said, the link quality drops at noon or midnight (or anytime inbetween).

there is an article about my area and their efforts to supply local wifi city-wide.. you can read it here:
»www.wifikankakee.com/cs_Kankakee.pdf

most importantly it highly acclaims the use of Dlink's DWL-7700AP access point.

i am overall trying to help myself abolish the link quality issue, but i am also concerned for the local newspaper.
maybe they are using a point-to-multipoint antenna array and there is a setting that needs to be adjusted (or any setting that may need to be adjusted so users of the wifi service can benefit strongly / without error.

i wonder if the local newspaper is making a fool of themselves by having an improper setting/value or is there criminal activity going on beforth me, maybe something wicked causing interference that may be a nice story to tell other loyal wifi users.

one thing to mention.. the dlink access points arent using the individual antennas that come stock.. they have been replaced by a high-gain grid.

now on to the aerial pictures!!

**edit**
you can see my frustration and line-of-sight in the pictures above.
just after taking the speedtest, i simply waited for the line quality to drop and snapped the picture.
also.. according the aerial picture, i am only 175ft from the antenna.

--
windows xp home sp3
local wi-fi being offered by the daily journal (at&t)
hawking hwdn2 plugged into ULTRA self-powered usb hub


cacroll
Eventually, Prozac becomes normal
Premium
join:2002-07-25
Martinez, CA

1 edit

1 recommendation

That's a nice picture. I see one building ("A" / "wireless adapter", yours, I presume) with 1 wireless adapter declared (and how many not declared). And I see a street. And I see a second building ("access point"), which I will guess is the newspaper building.

You're using your WiFi array for a backhaul, ie service acquisition. Your picture doesn't show other folks doing the same thing, nor does it show other folks who use their WiFi for in home use ie service distribution.

And your other discussions show that you don't understand the difference between backhaul and home use. When you suggest that folks who use omnidirectional antennas are being improper

using an omni-directional antenna is a lack of consideration, or a lack of thoughtfulness.
I see that you don't quite have a firm grasp on reality. Many people use omnidirectional antennas in their homes, because they like to move their WiFi connected computers around.

You did acknowledge that your equipment might not be FCC licensed.
stevech0 pointed out a good point, that, the access point i am on may not be FCC licensed.
and/or the wifi adapter i recieved may not be FCC licensed.
..maybe the over-bearing antenna i'm seeing may or may not be FCC licensed.
Even so, I have yet to see you admit that everybody has equal claim to the WiFi band. It's not designed purely as a backhaul, it's main purpose is to let people enjoy their computers in their homes, without requiring Ethernet. Your need to use it as a backhaul is creating your problem.

So, do you want to objectively determine where your problem is?
--
Cheers,
Chuck
MS-MVP 2005-2009 [Windows - Desktop Experience]
Nitecruzr Dot Net

stevech0

join:2006-09-17
San Diego, CA

2 edits

said by cacroll:

and/or the wifi adapter i recieved may not be FCC licensed.
..maybe the over-bearing antenna i'm seeing may or may not be FCC licensed.
In 2.4GHz in the US, there ARE NO FCC LICENSES. There are regulations on maximum radiated power and some other very technical matters. EVERY manufacturer is required to submit a formal proof of compliance with the regulations and in turn receives an FCC Type Certification number. It is illegal to sell/use an item without such.

If the consumer changes the antenna or adds an amplifier, there well could be a violation of the FCC regulations that, with enough complaints, would cause the FCC to issue a CEASE AND DESIST ORDER. After several of these and a year or so, our wonderful FCC might impose a fine.


cacroll
Eventually, Prozac becomes normal
Premium
join:2002-07-25
Martinez, CA

said by stevech0:

said by cacroll:

and/or the wifi adapter i recieved may not be FCC licensed.
..maybe the over-bearing antenna i'm seeing may or may not be FCC licensed.
In 2.4GHz in the US, there ARE NO FCC LICENSES. There are regulations on maximum radiated power and some other very technical matters. EVERY manufacturer is required to submit a formal proof of compliance with the regulations and in turn receives an FCC Type Certification number. It is illegal to sell/use an item without such.

If the consumer changes the antenna or adds an amplifier, there well could be a violation of the FCC regulations that, with enough complaints, would cause the FCC to issue a CEASE AND DESIST ORDER. After several of these and a year or so, our wonderful FCC might impose a fine.


Steve,

I was quoting the OP. Wouldn't it make sense for you to do the same, just in case I misquoted?
--
Cheers,
Chuck
MS-MVP 2005-2009 [Windows - Desktop Experience]
Nitecruzr Dot Net


Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

3 edits
reply to stevech0

i have one illegal wifi amp Banned by FCC many years ago
made by Linksys
i was able to get 10mbps(real speed) on WiFi 11B tech

MAX power with illegal wifi amp + 7DBi High Gain

LINKSYS WIRELESS SIGNAL BOOSTER MODEL # WSB24

gave the same range as the Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 with dd-wrt firmware



anwaypasible

join:2007-11-09
Kankakee, IL
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to cacroll

said by cacroll:

I see that you don't quite have a firm grasp on reality. Many people use omnidirectional antennas in their homes, because they like to move their WiFi connected computers around.

I have yet to see you admit that everybody has equal claim to the WiFi band.

So, do you want to objectively determine where your problem is?
you are right.. my grasp on reality is lacking because there is allowment for free-will to come and flaunt their lifestyle.
there is nothing stopping you from coming to my thread and flaunting your indulgence/rudeness, thus creating my disability (which i get paid for btw).

360 degree omni antennas will always and forever be sloppy.
there are alternatives that trim down the radius to a number of different degrees to fit the users needs.
i'm thinking of the hawking high-gain corner antenna, but i dont know if the rear of the thing is shielded.

everybody DOES NOT have equal claim to the wifi band, the FCC has a little thing called 'spread-spectrum' that modulates the frequency band so many more people can use it simultaneously.
you arent a very good babysitter, and i see you as the type who flaunts lackluster until it annoys the social body.

in fact, if you think ANYTHING on this planet is allocated to the consumer society without some sort of governed regulation, you would truly be off your rocker.

as far as the little FCC licensed/compliant argument goes.. the equipment has to comply with the modulation in place as to prevent massive collisions and overhead.
what might be home-made and working perfectly fine between the inventors computer and the access point does not mean that the lack of knowledge put into such an invention is keeping the rest of the airwaves organized.

as steve0 mentioned.. there are 'other very technical things' that must be adhered to when submitting hardware to become FCC compliant.
and these things must be working to the order of what the FCC has passed, whether it is the ideally optimized method or not!

such things include:
Carrier Sense Multiple Access/Collision Aviodance (CSMA/CA)
and all forms of modulation found at this link:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modulation

these are algorithms to keep the airwaves organized.
and when talking about how wifi is not purely designed to be a backhaul.. that would indicate an excessive latency in timing within the algorithm.

i am NOT stupid.. and i know that the human race has come very well along since the inception of the antenna.
i also know that any flaws in an algorithm have already been rekindled and finished (although nanoseconds count here) these algorithms may not have made it to the consumer public yet. (which is probably something those that have been CEASED AND DESISTED often say)

i went to the local newspaper and told them about what was going on (i had to pay my bill anyway) and they offered to change the channel and look into it further.
he went to check the signal levels and came back stating that my signal was excellent and that there were only about 3 people on at the moment we were talking.

i sat with the tech and we ruled out things like someone standing in front of the directional antenna (he agreed my signal strength would drop)
then i told him about the fact that their access point was up and running, and could see my adapter as well as my adapter could see the access point.
he asked what my pings were to the dhcp and i told him - the lowest i get is 3ms and usually i get about 5ms on average.. then he chuckled at how good they were, i said yeah, i know they are almost perfect.
i started going in on the fact that my link quality would significantly drop and i could not replicate something such as a phone ringing or a microwave oven in use.. basically claiming that i couldnt find any pattern whatsoever other than the drops would occur day or night.

then i mentioned about how i felt that there may be a class 4/2 felony going on.. perhaps someone with criminal intent trying to hijack packets.
i giggled and said that i felt as though someone had a directional antenna on their shoulder and was pointing it directly at my antenna (to cause interference).

i told him that if it was someone elses antenna, i felt as though that would be business infringement. and i also stated the fact that the person would then be accountable for nuisance.

after he mentioned to change the channel.. i said that would be beneficial because then i would have a chance to see if there was some serious lack of Carrier Sense Multiple Access/Collision Aviodance (CSMA/CA) going on.
which i summed up as a lack of FCC compliance on someones hardware.
i said that because the details that take place from the time you turn on the wifi adapter until it is connected and using modulation to transfer data had been reviewed by me reading articles.
i told the guy that i was down to reading white papers and i know that sometimes those white papers can be misleading on purpose.

i noted that i know of site surveys that can be costly to determine if/when/why there are electrical interference problems.
although i tried to make sure that i was clear in stating my view as there is a hardware conflict in the software, or someone was being criminally active.
(conflict in the software meaning a failing on-board chip or an improperly programmed on-board chip)

i was a little happy to hear that i would be on the same channel as the only other antenna on my scan results, because i trust that the FCC compliance will force both my antenna and the other persons antenna to compromise and therefore be organized to function as one.

i am using the connection and taking notes on any overhead that i experience.

to finalize,
the overhead i was seeing was simply long, and it was viewed in combination with an increase in tx/rx errors.. and although these are common and purposefully implemented to spread the spectrum, i feel as though the stalls were excessive & often lasting MUCH MUCH longer than they should (hours of detriment at a time, with spikes of appropriate link quality)

the tech said.. well maybe somebody is using up lots of bandwidth and i snapped to the already concluded and said yeah that is fine but such an issue WOULD NOT show up on my hawking wireless utility.
i didnt get a chance to say maybe a traceroute or a ping plot would show signs of steady/heavy activity on a hop before leaving the wisp's infrastructure.. but that has nothing to do with tx/rx errors being witnessed on my wireless utlity.

there is no excuse for my wireless connection being bullied for hours on end with little spikes that go towards the positive direction during these hours.

one link was a dud and i need to press the stop button the internet explorer and try again.. okay that was network overhead, maybe somebody just tried to sync with the antenna i am on and i missed my RTS/CTS packet.

yuck, i know i dont have COMPLETE understanding of what the details are when i turn my wifi adapter on and begin transfering data.. but i do have a solid gist.

not like that gist is being respected in this thread anyways.
the first post was trying to tell me that my antenna wasnt strong enough to send/receive ANYTHING FCC compliant.

the second post had a great start and then got really rude without much boundary.. i just wish the human-species average would be SOCIAL compliant.

the communication is sloppy & rude.

and cacroll, dont flatter yourself at milking me out of all that was said, because i was fully willing to share the depths of my knowledge that i have aquired thus far prior to you posting your 'triangulating techniques'

those techniques could be a lot less rude and maintain the same effectiveness for people searching for an answer.
soap-opera drama retains information simply 'falling on someones lap' when the readers just want to hear us fight and instead they learn something exceedingly useful.

personally.. i wouldnt want to feed those drama-queens with information while they are busy reading drama faster than it can be created.

and now that the recession has overcome society, there aren't the same amount of people willing to take in EVEN MORE drama by reading it on a forum.

i never have been one to like soap-operas.. i am disgusted at the arguing and rudeness.
i only use such things to keep myself in solitude while my stress factor is marginal.. because if i am stressed to the point of being weak, i dont desire to take on more burdens.
and that is how the recession got me, eheheh.
the more stressed i get, the more naive their responses become.

once i am finally choked up.. trying to be social results in an entire communicative session of responses that resemble empty algebraic variables.

therefore i am offended by your notation of having a weak grasp on reality.
you might think it is point-worthy to mention your ability to notice that i am stressed (therefore weak-grasped on reality)
but rather you added more rudeness rather than alleviate stress or remain neutral.

and i have seen many-times a situation where someone drifted away from neutrality slightly in a negative direction and got away with it because the moderators shown they are incapable of quality judgement.

my most recent event was here at dslreports unfortunately.

as far as differences go after being moved to channel 6..
my frames received successfully are at 280,000
and frames received with CRC error are at 5,000
frames dropped due to out-of-resource 0
duplicate frames received 382

frames transmitted successfully 172,000
frames retransmitted successfully 27,000
frames fail to receive ack after all retries 17
RTS frames successfully receive CTS 0 (as usual)
RTS frames fail to receive CTS 0 (as usual)

these statistics definitely have different ratios than the first ones i posted.

said by Anonymous_:

i have one illegal wifi amp Banned by FCC many years ago
made by Linksys
i was able to get 10mbps(real speed) on WiFi 11B tech

MAX power with illegal wifi amp + 7DBi High Gain

LINKSYS WIRELESS SIGNAL BOOSTER MODEL # WSB24

gave the same range as the Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 with dd-wrt firmware
i just read up on the booster you posted about, and i didnt notice any mention of amplifier gain specifications.. so i'm guessing anything 'illegal' about it was within the software on the circuit board (something about the combine circuit makes me think that the booster could be used as a locksmith for devices that require a 'signal-key'
i read a review that says there is a chip that can actively switch between two amplifiers, and i picked up that once one small gained signal has been recieved, the big amp can then boost it again and totally drop the noise-floor which would be like suspending the signal in mid-air.
if you can visualize -_-_--_-
well that is a 'signal-key'
_ being the normally boosted signal
- being the normally boosted signal hit again with another amp to further drop the noise floor.

not very important until you realize that the receiving piece of hardware can be made to communicate ONLY with devices that speak 'fluent-signal-key'

a lazy government or military would be a good reason why those 'signal-keys' havent been re-designed into something more complicated.

afterall.. the test results shown an increase in 10dBm throughout the test phase.
personally.. i got a boost of 18dBm just by fiddling with the precise location of my directional antenna.
i can simply plop the antenna down in the general direction of the access point and get -88dBm.. but if i sit and fiddle with it, hunting for an optimized signal.. i've witnessed my receive signal strength go as low as -70dBm

as of right now the receive signal is bouncing between -74 and -72.

if pay = invest / then you get what you pay for
personally i like to invest my mind into things.. and the current economy is setup for people to invest with their $
( putting my finger on feeling so 'out-of-luck' )

p.s.
did i mention that other building is a firehouse ('bout 200 years old)

--
windows xp home sp3
local wi-fi being offered by the daily journal (at&t)
hawking hwdn2 plugged into ULTRA self-powered usb hub


cacroll
Eventually, Prozac becomes normal
Premium
join:2002-07-25
Martinez, CA

1 recommendation

OK, there are some grains of quotable content, in the above pile of horse manure.

everybody DOES NOT have equal claim to the wifi band, the FCC has a little thing called 'spread-spectrum' that modulates the frequency band so many more people can use it simultaneously.
Within the spread spectrum, everybody who has a WiFi network is entitled to use their WiFi network. You have no right to tell somebody not to use their network, simply because it damages your access.
then i mentioned about how i felt that there may be a class 4/2 felony going on.. perhaps someone with criminal intent trying to hijack packets.
I am betting that your local police department is well acquainted with you.
there is no excuse for my wireless connection being bullied for hours on end with little spikes that go towards the positive direction during these hours.
And you don't play your multiplayer games for hours on end? Anybody with WiFi is entitled to use their WiFi, as many hours as they wish.
i never have been one to like soap-operas.. i am disgusted at the arguing and rudeness.
i only use such things to keep myself in solitude while my stress factor is marginal.
You are a soap opera, by yourself.
--
Cheers,
Chuck
MS-MVP 2005-2009 [Windows - Desktop Experience]
Nitecruzr Dot Net

stevech0

join:2006-09-17
San Diego, CA

2 edits

in fact, if you think ANYTHING on this planet is allocated to the consumer society without some sort of governed regulation, you would truly be off your rocker.

They're all out to get you.
RUN! Fast!
Don't look back! Keep Running!