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 ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4
 ·VOIPo
| Key line.... "Of course while AT&T's problem might make Verizon seem like the ideal carrier, Verizon might have struggled with iPhone capacity demand as well."
I think that is the biggest point of the article. I think that just about any of the big carriers would have struggled under the weight. Yes AT&T should have been more proactive but should have, could have, would have... | |
 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | said by ptrowski:"Of course while AT&T's problem might make Verizon seem like the ideal carrier, Verizon might have struggled with iPhone capacity demand as well." I think that is the biggest point of the article. I think that just about any of the big carriers would have struggled under the weight. Yes AT&T should have been more proactive but should have, could have, would have... I don't agree. The CDMA network is run by multiple carriers, so you're not limited to a single carrier who is responsible for all coverage. Add to that the fact that 3G has been deployed to a much larger area and the CDMA network as a whole in the US is just much more robust than AT&T's network. If an AT&T tower is full, you may roam onto a T-Mobile tower if there happens to be one near you, otherwise you just don't get service or get very poor service.
I don't think Verizon would have gotten off scot-free, I've seen some numbers peg the iPhone as 50% of all mobile web traffic, but I don't think they would have buckled so badly under the load as AT&T has. It's completely possible Verizon expected the load to be high and that factored into their decision to pass also.
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"What is conservatism? Is it not adherence to the old and tried, against the new and untried?" - Abraham Lincoln | |
 dennismurphyPut me on hold? I'll put YOU on holdPremium
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ
 ·Verizon FiOS
 ·Optimum Online
| said by Matt:I don't agree. The CDMA network is run by multiple carriers, so you're not limited to a single carrier who is responsible for all coverage. What are you talking about? Multiple carriers? Verizon Wireless owns & operates their entire network. Full stop. | | |
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MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | said by dennismurphy:said by Matt:I don't agree. The CDMA network is run by multiple carriers, so you're not limited to a single carrier who is responsible for all coverage. What are you talking about? Multiple carriers? Verizon Wireless owns & operates their entire network. Full stop. Verizon, Sprint, Alltel, US Cellular, etc ... you can roam on all those networks.
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"What is conservatism? Is it not adherence to the old and tried, against the new and untried?" - Abraham Lincoln | |
Reviews:
 ·Acanac
| said by Matt:said by dennismurphy:said by Matt:I don't agree. The CDMA network is run by multiple carriers, so you're not limited to a single carrier who is responsible for all coverage. What are you talking about? Multiple carriers? Verizon Wireless owns & operates their entire network. Full stop. Verizon, Sprint, Alltel, US Cellular, etc ... you can roam on all those networks. Ya ok, so can an ATT customer roam on T-Mobile's network. But you are aware that as soon as you rooam on someone elses's network, extra charges apply, right ? It doesn't matter whether you roam on a CDMA network or an HSPA one, same principle applies.
Adi | |
| reply to Matt
said by Matt:Verizon, Sprint, Alltel, US Cellular, etc... you can roam on all those networks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that only Verizon and Sprint have their own CDMA networks and Alltel and USC resell one of the above.
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Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...
A MESSAGE to the RIAA and the MPAA: You shouldn't wound what you can't kill... | |
| reply to adisor19
There is no charge for roaming on att.
- A
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LETS GO METS! | |
dennismurphyPut me on hold? I'll put YOU on holdPremium
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Optimum Online
| reply to Matt
said by Matt:said by dennismurphy:said by Matt:I don't agree. The CDMA network is run by multiple carriers, so you're not limited to a single carrier who is responsible for all coverage. What are you talking about? Multiple carriers? Verizon Wireless owns & operates their entire network. Full stop. Verizon, Sprint, Alltel, US Cellular, etc ... you can roam on all those networks. Roaming agreements do not a single network make.
First and foremost, Verizon and Alltel merged ... they are now indeed one network there.
But as for Sprint, USCC and Verizon all playing together? Those are via roaming agreements. And those agreements change.
They often renegotiate those agreements. Sometimes roaming partners are added, sometimes they are dropped, and sometimes they change -- even in one region, but not another.
... and let's not forget the very small roaming partners that do still exist.
Anyone who's been around the wireless world for a long time will remember the most infamous one of all.... SUSSEX CELLULAR.
Don't assume that just because you have a CDMA phone that you can roam anywhere there is CDMA ... that's just not the case. | |
MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | reply to ptrowski
I'm not going to address all 3 incorrect posts individually, so I will here. Verizon, Alltel (yes, I know they are now one, but they each built their own networks first), and Sprint do have their own robust networks. US Cellular has a few towers, not many, but has a roaming agreement with Verizon/Alltel and Sprint. Talk to them and they'll tell you this outright and provide you a map that shows it.
As far as roaming, I've never been charged a roaming fee in my life. Maybe you are charged roaming on certain plans, but none of the plans I've ever used. Any of the America's Choice calling plans include roaming for free.
So, if you have a CDMA handset, you can roam among Verizon/Alltel, Sprint, and yes, even the few US Cellular towers, probably other regional carriers too. With AT&T you pretty much have AT&T and perhaps T-Mobile if you're lucky. The CDMA network (I'm referring to all carriers collectively here) is much more robust and built-out than the GSM network here in the US.
Hope that clears up any confusion.
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"What is conservatism? Is it not adherence to the old and tried, against the new and untried?" - Abraham Lincoln | |
 jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA | reply to dennismurphy
Sure, roaming agreement may change, but for right now, Verizon and Sprint are beating AT&T and T-Mobile when it comes to overall coverage because of these roaming agreements. This is not hypothetical. Every measurable test that I have found supports this claim. | |
Reviews:
·Acanac
| reply to FastiBook
said by FastiBook:There is no charge for roaming on att. - A Sure there isn't. Keep roaming non stop on T-Mobile and see what happens with you account in a few months. You'll find that they will cancel it since it's costing them a lot in roaming fees so they're not making any $$ on you.
Adi | |
MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12
1 edit | reply to jmn1207
AT&T - Blue is 3G | 
Verizon - Blue is 3G |
said by jmn1207:Sure, roaming agreement may change, but for right now, Verizon and Sprint are beating AT&T and T-Mobile when it comes to overall coverage because of these roaming agreements. This is not hypothetical. Every measurable test that I have found supports this claim. All one has to do is look at the difference in 3G coverage from the carrier's own website.
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"What is conservatism? Is it not adherence to the old and tried, against the new and untried?" - Abraham Lincoln | |
dennismurphyPut me on hold? I'll put YOU on holdPremium
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Optimum Online
| reply to jmn1207
said by jmn1207:Sure, roaming agreement may change, but for right now, Verizon and Sprint are beating AT&T and T-Mobile when it comes to overall coverage because of these roaming agreements. This is not hypothetical. Every measurable test that I have found supports this claim. I completely, totally, 100% agree. Verizon Wireless has the best coverage, nationwide, by far. On this, just about everyone agrees.
Verizon Wireless actually does very little roaming on Sprint's network. There's a few pockets of it, but for the most part, you're on the VZ network. | |
 FBGuyyippee ki yayPremium
join:2005-03-19 | reply to adisor19
and you think that they don't make the money back from t-mobile when their customers roam on their network? | |
FBGuyyippee ki yayPremium
join:2005-03-19 | reply to ptrowski
if the iphone wasn't exclusvie with AT&T, the impact would have probably been less noticeable. Spread it across every major carrier and you would see what I am talking about. | |
 NOVA_GuyObamaCare Kills AmericansPremium
join:2002-03-05 | reply to adisor19
There is no charge for roaming on Sprint. (Of course, certain usage conditions apply.) | |
bemis
join:2008-07-18
Reading, MA Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon FiOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Matt
said by Matt  All one has to do is look at the difference in 3G coverage from the carrier's own website.
[/BQUOTE :...and now let's overlay a map of iPhone owners... Chances are pretty good that people in Wyoming are not buying mass qty's of iphones... and the ones who do probably would have as much chance buying on VZW as they did on ATT. The T's (AT& and -Mobile) have every major metro area covered w/ 3G ... it's 2G where not and frankly 9/10 times I'm using my iPhone it's on WiFi anyway. That said, yes, would be nice to have a VZW/Sprint option--I was w/ VZW until I got the iPhone and I am still w/ Sprint for my EVDO data service. | |
| reply to Matt
Unless they've changed the PRL's, Verizon (like AT&T) tightly controls who you roam on. That's the job of the PRL (preferred roaming list) so you don't automagically roam on Sprint, Alltel, USC, etc.
The Verizon Lovefest is disgusting. | |
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | reply to Matt
said by Matt:Verizon, Sprint, Alltel, US Cellular, etc ... you can roam on all those networks. A. Verizon rarely if ever roams on Sprint.
heres a list of never roam
* MTA008B - Boston, MA-RI-VT-NH-ME
* MTA001B - New York City, NY-NJ-PA-CT-VT
* MTA009B - Philadelphia, PA-NJ-DE-MD
* MTA002A - Los Angeles, CA-NV-AZ
* MTA027B - Phoenix, AZ
* MTA004A - San Francisco, CA-NV
* MTA036B - Salt Lake City, UT-ID-WY-NV-OR
* MTA022A - Denver, CO-WY-SD-NE-KS-UT
* MTA007B - Dallas, TX-LA-AR-OK-NM
* BTA027C - Austin, TX
* MTA048B - Tulsa, OK-KS
* MTA014D - Houston, TX-LA
* BTA059A - Bryan-College Station, TX
* BTA196E - Houston, TX
* BTA238F - Lake Charles, LA
* MTA044D - Knoxville, TN-VA-KY
* BTA229E - Kingsport, TN-Johnson City, TN-Bristol, VA-TN
* BTA295E - Middlesboro-Harlan, KY
* MTA023D - Richmond, VA-NC
* BTA324C - Norfolk-Virginia Beach-Newport News-Hampton, VA
* BTA374C - Richmond-Petersburg, VA
* MTA032B - Des Moines, IA-IL-MO-NE-SD-WI
* MTA045B - Omaha, NE-IA-KS
* MTA034A - Kansas City, MO-KS-OK
* MTA019B - St. Louis, MO-IL-AR
* MTA046B - Wichita, KS-OK
* MTA015A - Miami, FL
* MTA020A - Milwaukee, WI-MI-MN-IA
* MTA003D - Chicago, IL-IN-OH-MI-WI
* BTA071A - Champaign-Urbana, IL
* BTA078E - Chicago, IL
* BTA103E - Danville, IL
* BTA225E - Kankakee, IL
* BTA243E - La Salle-Peru-Ottawa-Streator, IL
* BTA380A - Rockford, IL
* MTA031A - Indianapolis, IN-IL
* MTA035A - Buffalo, NY-PA
* MTA005B - Detroit, MI-OH
* MTA021A - Pittsburgh, PA-WV-OH
* MTA016D - Cleveland, OH-PA
* BTA084B - Cleveland-Akron, OH
* MTA010A - Washington, DC-MD-VA-WV-PA
********************
* MTA018D - Cincinnati, OH-WV-VA-KY-IN
* BTA035E - Beckley, WV
* BTA048E - Bluefield, WV
* BTA073E - Charleston, WV
* BTA081C - Cincinnati, OH
* BTA106C - Dayton-Springfield, OH
* BTA197E - Huntington, WV-Ashland, KY
* BTA259E - Logan, WV
* BTA359E - Portsmouth, OH
* BTA474E - Williamson, WV-Pikeville, KY
**********************
* MTA038D - Columbus, OH-WV
* MTA038E - Columbus, OH-WV
* BTA095C - Columbus, OH
********************
* MTA011D - Atlanta, GA-SC-AL-TN
* MTA039D - El Paso, TX-NM-AZ-UT-CO
* BTA008B - Albuquerque, NM
* BTA022A - Athens, GA
* BTA024A - Atlanta, GA
* BTA128E - El Paso, TX
* BTA139B - Farmington, NM-Durango, CO
* BTA162E - Gallup, NM
* BTA244C - Las Cruces, NM
* BTA386F - Roswell, NM
* BTA407B - Santa Fe, NM
***********************
* MTA006D - Charlotte, NC-SC-GA
* BTA074A - Charlotte-Gastonia, NC
* BTA141A - Fayetteville-Lumberton, NC
* BTA174A - Greensboro--Winston-Salem--High Point, NC
* BTA174C - Greensboro--Winston-Salem--High Point, NC
* BTA368A - Raleigh-Durham, NC
Verizon does roam onto Sprint in the following
* MTA030B - Portland, OR-WA-CA
* MTA024B - Seattle, WA
* BTA413C - Seattle-Tacoma, WA
* MTA042B - Spokane, WA-OR-ID-MT-WY
* MTA041B - Oklahoma City, OK
* MTA017A - New Orleans, LA-MS-AL-FL
* MTA033A - San Antonio, TX
* BTA268C - McAllen, TX
* MTA040B - Little Rock, AR-OK
* MTA037D - Jacksonville, FL-GA
* BTA159A - Gainesville, FL
* BTA212A - Jacksonville, FL
* BTA439A - Tallahassee, FL
* MTA013D - Tampa, FL
* BTA107A - Daytona Beach, FL
* BTA239C - Lakeland-Winter Haven, FL
* BTA289C - Melbourne-Titusville, FL
* BTA336A - Orlando, FL
* BTA336C - Orlando, FL
* BTA408A - Sarasota-Bradenton, FL
* BTA440A - Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL
* MTA026B - Louisville, KY-IL-IN
I left out some minor or duplicate areas. This list was hand made, errors exist I'm sure.
sources:
»www.howardforums.com/archive/top···8-1.html
»www.roamingzone.com/prl/prl_51248.shtml
But in general, Verizon almost NEVER in-market roams onto Sprint unless Verizon is a PCS/1900 only in that area (Florida was the most famous VZ-PCS only example (East Florida both 800s belong to AT&T, West Florida, one 800 belongs to Alltel (now VZW), the other belongs to AT&T).
Not to mention, to "roam" off your carrier, means having "no service" with your carrier. So if Verizon has 0 (with service) or 1 bar, the Verizon phone will not switch to Sprint or US Cellular even if Sprint or US Cellular has 5 bars at that location. Have fun with your phone never ringing or no sound when you answer it, then a drop a few seconds later.
I'm less experienced with GSM, but GSM roaming is by tower by tower (no concept of cellular area codes (AMPS/TDMA/CDMA SID/NID system)), the roam carrier's tower asks the home carrier if its OK to permit your GSM phone on such and such located roam carrier tower, home carrier can say no roam, and then your phone says no service, or returns to the home carrier tower. AT&T rarely if ever roams onto Tmobile, Tmobile roams onto AT&T only in very rural areas, forcing roaming doesn't ever work, the roam tower will reject your phone based on instructions from your home carrier when your phone attempts to log on. | |
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | reply to dennismurphy
said by dennismurphy:Anyone who's been around the wireless world for a long time will remember the most infamous one of all.... SUSSEX CELLULAR. Sussex Cellular, the cellphone provider run by a guy with his pickup 
All profit, if any, goes towards beer. No capital investment since 1986. | |
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