switchman
join:1999-11-06
Grand Prairie, TX
 ·RoadRunner Cable
2 edits |  A few question about the X550N Series Routers
Ok, it is time to upgrade my router with a new model. I am partial to Zyxel line. I currently run on a Zywall 2. I was thinking of getting one of the X550N series routers versus a Zywall 2+. The X550N appears to have more horsepower than a Zywall while the Zywall is more feature rich. The wireless is a nice to have, but my philosophy is to run a separate AP to avoid bogging the router down.
The only must have feature is VPN. I currently have a VPN link to my parent’s house; they have a Zywall 2 also. I am the remote tech support. I have looked at the documentation and read the reviews here on DSLReports, but have a couple of questions for anyone who has experience with the model.
1. Is the unit truly stable now with the latest firmware?
2. I occasionally work from my house and have to VPN into work. Is the X550N transparent to client VPN traffic, i.e. does it support IPSec NAT Traversal? I could not find this in the documentation at all. My Zywall 2 does it and my old P314 did it, but you know what happens when you assume anything. This is a must have.
3. Does the IPSEC VPN actually work on the X550N, and does it work with older VPN implementation as implemented by Zyxel. I currently have a tunnel up between my parents and my house. Did they get
4. Will it maintain a VPN tunnel, it is an endpoint, to another location, i.e. parent’s house, while supporting IPSec NAT Traversal, i.e. my laptop running VPN software and connected to work network. My Zywall 2 does this just fine.
5. The Zywall 2 allows you to generate and use self signed certificates as a part of the IPSEC VPN software, the X550N does not appear to have this option, only PSK. I prefer certificates. I do understand that this is intended to be a low cost consumer router and not a business router so can understand why they may not have capabilities normally associated with a business router.
6. Is Zyxel still developing for the unit or are they ready to cap it and come out with a new “Consumer” model. It seems they have been a little slow with fixes/updates for these units.
7. From all post, it seems the X550 and 460N are the exact same hardware and the 460N firmware can be loaded on the X550N. I understand the marketing reason the released it as the X550N, but want to make sure no software check is in place to stop the loading of the firmware. I can see a point where they may stop supporting one of the models due to sales volumes.
8. Is the compatibility with Intel wireless units truly resolved?
9. Is the antenna that comes with the NH version worth the price premium? Do you also get the individual antennas in addition to the external antenna with the NH version?
10. While I don’t use SNMP, nor is it mentioned in the documentation, can SNMP be enabled on X550N perhaps via command line?
11. Any rumors that maybe the Zywall 2+ is due for hardware update anytime soon?
Update:
Looks like I will get a chance to answer some of my on questions on the X550N. Happened to go onto Amazon and look at the X550N router and $25 rebate just popped up, $30 for the X550NH model. So for $83-$25 + Free Shipping = $58, I will give it a try even though I hate rebates. My first guess based on the rebate being for about every supplier, is that they are trying to clear inventory due to:
1 - new model being released and the X-550 series being killed, perhaps the NBG-460 is its replacement in US. This fixes some marketing/support issues. You would only need one firmware/documentation release for the hardware. They would not have to localize the X-550N version.
2 - New model that may have a minor hardware tweak to fix Intel wireless compatability.
3 - May be trying to flush the supply chain in order to refresh supply chain in order to generate sales. If this is their 4Q, then this may true, but doutfull.
I am leaning toward a version of guess #1. If you are going to push out a new consumer product, now is the time to do it with the holidays comming up.
Valid merchants listed on rebate form
Amazon.com,
ANTonline.com,
Buy.com, CDW,
DataVision, Dell,
eCost.com, Insight, J&R,
Micro Works Computer
Center, PC Connecton,
PC Mall,
Provantage.com,
SHI.com,
Superwarehouse.com,
and Zones |
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Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
| No the X-550N is relatively new in the scheme of things. It is also runs on zyxel firmware (as opposed to the x-550 which was an oem firmware product) and thus I would guestimate that VPN passthrough should be doable or at least configurable as well as snmp and other like questions/items. It has built in VPN but I would bet it does not have the latest AES encryption. On the other hand your needs are not great in that regard. What I would not hazard to guess is whether it would permit pass through from a vpn client on a laptop AND ipsec router to router at the same time. FOr that suggest you call tech support (800) 255-4101 ext 5. Teamviewer and logmein are also viable alternate ways to do what you require wrt remote maintenance.
The x-550N = 460N the latter being 'europe' or global nomenclature. The NH does add the funky antenna!! The deal you stated is very very good!
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"
LlamaWorks Equipment |
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Bytezboy
join:2001-05-17
New York, NY
2 edits | reply to switchman
What's the difference between the NBG420N and NBG460N? Also, now that the N is official ratified, do you think they'll release an updated router or a new firmware soon? Not sure if I should wait a little longer. |
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csayers
join:2006-08-21
canada
| reply to switchman
1. Mine has been rock solid no drops in 3 weeks. using latest 460N firmware
2. Supports IPSEC Nat traversal
3. My VPN is up along with router 1 VPN to Zywall 35. So far as reliable as my Zywall 2 plus was. ie rock solid.
4. Not sure what you mean.
5. No certificates
6. Don't know
7. 460N works on 550N
8. My Laptop is Intel 4695 works excellent not sure about newer Intel chips
9.Don't Know
10. I don't see any setting for SNMP in GUI
11. Don't know
Anav is correct no AES for VPN just DES 3DES.
Firewall is very limited, VPN is solid, Wireless is solid with different Clients, SIP works, Previously BWM seemed to increase wireless drops and I am not using it, Don't know if it affects stability or not with new Firmware.
Hope that helps |
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switchman
join:1999-11-06
Grand Prairie, TX
1 edit | Thanks. I wonder why they eliminated AES as a an Encryption Algorithm for IPSEC and only allow DES or 3DES which much weaker algorithms. I would guess it is because they are targeting this as a consumer product. |
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Bytezboy
join:2001-05-17
New York, NY | reply to switchman
Is the firewall on the NBG460N better or worse than the X-550? |
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switchman
join:1999-11-06
Grand Prairie, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | reply to Anav
said by Anav  :Teamviewer and logmein are also viable alternate ways to do what you require wrt remote maintenance. I am aware of the software solutions, but it is so much easier to use Remote Desktop and just log into the PC I need to work on. I do not mind paying for a better class of router that has VPN endpoint. I had been seriously considering a Zywall 2+ as my next router. If this router does not work out, I will go back to a Zywall as its replacement. |
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Dandemon
join:2006-04-05
Australia
| reply to switchman
Answering what I'm confident on only:
1. Is the unit truly stable now with the latest firmware?
The latest US firmware is stable on wired clients and unstable on some kinds of wireless clients (Intel especially). We are still waiting for an X550 upgrade to catch up with international firmware for the NBG-460N. I can't see why this has been delayed apart from some additional issues above and beyond the 460's latest firmware (Sep 09).
6. Is Zyxel still developing for the unit or are they ready to cap it and come out with a new “Consumer” model. It seems they have been a little slow with fixes/updates for these units.
I think this will stay current for a while but it depends whether they can upgrade it to true 802.11n now that the standard is finalised. Some other poster mentioned a beta firmware so yes, they're still developing it. They need to, frankly.
7. From all post, it seems the X550 and 460N are the exact same hardware and the 460N firmware can be loaded on the X550N. I understand the marketing reason the released it as the X550N, but want to make sure no software check is in place to stop the loading of the firmware. I can see a point where they may stop supporting one of the models due to sales volumes.
There's no software check that I know of, but I'm not upgrading to the latest NBG-460N firmware on mine. Just in case a better X550N firmware comes out and the 'reflashed' NBG460N firmware refuses to upload it.
8. Is the compatibility with Intel wireless units truly resolved?
On current NBG460N firmware, reportedly yes. On current X550N firmware, no.
9. Is the antenna that comes with the NH version worth the price premium? Do you also get the individual antennas in addition to the external antenna with the NH version?
Yes and yes. That external antenna array is absolutely amazing in my old brick home. I have never ever seen such strong wireless performance. You'd be crazy not to get the NH version IMO. |
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awardblvr
join:2005-09-23
San Leandro, CA
| I'm running X550NH with 360BFD2D0, the latest 460 Firmware.
I am experiencing daily or 2x daily lockups (router stops passing traffic) and I have to power-cycle the thing. This is happening most often with wired clients.
I have NO CLUE what to do, other than replace this brand-new router. My FAMILY will not stand for this much longer and I have a VOIP ATA on the inside of this firewall. So, I need the reliability.
If anyone has any suggestions on stability or other routers with a similarly-impressive feature/performance set, I would welcome it.
please advise
Thanks
-Andrew |
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switchman
join:1999-11-06
Grand Prairie, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
| I am running NBG-460N_3.60(AMX.5)C0 and it works fine. I am not using wireless at all. I have wireless turned off. Did you reset the configuration file. See below for a description on how to do this.
This step is not documented as part of the firmware update, but you should perform it. Old configuration files can cause all kinds of weird problems. My personnel philosophy is to always reset the router back to system defaults after a firmware upgrade/downgrade.
Use a paper clip to hold the rest button in on the back of the router for 5-10 seconds until the PWR led begins to flash. This will cause the router to reset the system back to all of its defaults. DO NOT USE the web interface reset for this procedure, it does not do a full system reset from what I have read. I do not know if it is true or not, but I like to hard reset.
Log back into the Router, reset your password. The default password is 1234.
On the status screen, the System Name will be NBG460N.
Reconfigure the router with any setting you had before |
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csayers
join:2006-08-21
canada
| reply to awardblvr
In response to above the 360BFD2D0 firmware is not the 460 it is the 550 firmware. google "nbg460n firmware" install it but be aware not to navigate away from upgrade page after initiating upload to the router; it takes a long time before it starts to upload allow at least 5 minutes for upload and reboot. I think this is a mistake a lot of people are making, thinking they have upgraded but it still has the old firmware because they didn't wait long enough.
The 460 firmare will fix the lockups and wireless dropouts, it is a must have for this router to be functional at all.
Hope that helps. |
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switchman
join:1999-11-06
Grand Prairie, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
4 edits | reply to switchman
awardblvr, here is a little procedure for doing a firmware upgrade I put together for someone else, it might help you.
Got to page 289 of the NBG-460N documentation and follow the procedure. But it is basically as follows with my enhancements.
1. Make screen captures of any configuration info in the router, i.e firewall rules, fixed IP etc. As part of this upgrade you are going to completely reset the configuration file in the router.
2. Verify what firmware version you are on now.
3. Download latest NBG-460N documentation, NBG-460N_3.60_Ed3.pdf, from Taiwan site.
4. Download latest NBG-460N firmware, NBG-460N_3.60(AMX.5)C0.zip, from Taiwan site
5. Extract the firmware from zip into is own folder. There will be three files. The file you will upload via the web I/F is 360AMX5C0.bin
6. Log into the router. Go to the Maintenance > Tools > Firmware screen.
7. Browse to the location where you extracted the 360AMX5C0.bin file and select it.
WARNING: Once you start this, do not remove the power from the router or interrupt the upload/reflash. If you do, you could brick your router. It is best to just leave the computer alone while it is uploading.
8. Click the Upload button and let the flash take place. When it is finished, the login screen will appear. It took between 8-10 minutes on mine for this to happen.
9. Log in with you current password to verify it flashed ok. On the status screen, the Firmware version should be V3.60(AMX.5) | 08/14/2009
This step is not documented as part of the firmware update, but you should perform it. Old configuration files can cause all kinds of weird problems. My personnel philosophy is to always reset the router back to system defaults after a firmware upgrade/downgrade.
10. Use a paper clip to hold the rest button in on the back of the router for 5-10 seconds until the PWR led begins to flash. This will cause the router to reset the system back to all of its defaults. DO NOT USE the web interface reset for this procedure, it does not do a full system reset from what I have read. I do not know if this is true or not.
11. Log back into the Router, reset your password. The default password is 1234.
12. On the status screen, the System Name will be NBG460N.
13. Reconfigure the router with any setting you had before. |
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Dandemon
join:2006-04-05
Australia
| Heads up, there's a new NBG-460N firmware out on the Taiwan Zyxel site:
»www.zyxel.com/web/support_downlo···01175917
Not much seems to have changed. Still, this makes 2 released updates for the NBG-460N and nothing for those who have a X550N and don't want to cross the firmware streams. I've sent a terse email to Zyxel support in the US and Taiwan, asking them what the story is.. |
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switchman
join:1999-11-06
Grand Prairie, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
| According to the release note's, they only changed one thing, access to the the WDS feature via the GUI. Does anyone know if it actually works. If it does work, I wonder if you still have access to it via the CLI or if they ripped out the code/turned it off.
Not sure if they changed/fixed other things that are not documented. Seems very strange to push a firmware release to remove this capability.
Release Notes
Modification in 3.60(AMX.6) C0 | 11/11/2009
1. Change 3.60(AMX.6) b1 to 3.60(AMX.6) C0 FCS version.
Modification in 3.60(AMX.6) b1 | 10/26/2009
2. Remove the WDS page in Network->Wireless LAN. |
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forgetmypass
@getinternet.no
| reply to switchman
So, the X550 and NBG-460 are the same devices, according to you, just different SKU's.
Now lets assume that NBG-460 is sold to big customer A, x-550 does not have major customer that buys in volume.
460 customer needs a fw tweak/fix due to whatever reason, ie ZyXEL modifies the FW for the customer that buys in volume.
550 that does not have such pressure from a big volume buyer, well little incentive to support it.
I have no idea, if this is true, but its a guess. |
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