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fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to b10010011

Re: Does anyone use these?

said by b10010011:

Yeah, there are PC tuner cards that can use a cable card and they would allow your PC to receive every channel a set top box does.

Bu they are only single tuner cards, so like in the picture you would need multiple cards to record multiple channels at the same time

So in reality a lifetime subscribed Tivo-HD is a more cost effective solution than a media center PC for a DVR.
That's changing. It used to be that you could only get a Cablecard tuner as part of a whole new PC from HP and others. Now Cablelabs loosened the restrictions so that you can pop a cablecard tuner into any old PC.

b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?

join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
Reviews:
·Comcast Formerl..

1 edit
said by fifty nine:

That's changing. It used to be that you could only get a Cablecard tuner as part of a whole new PC from HP and others. Now Cablelabs loosened the restrictions so that you can pop a cablecard tuner into any old PC.
Sure but do the math.

four-tuner version of the card somewhere between $300 and $600. (so lets say $200-$300 for a two tuner version)

A PC powerful enough to record two HD streams while playing back an HD recording is going to be in the $1000+ range as none of these cards have hardware encoders for HD recording.

A Tivo-HD with lifetime subscription is about $700 and even less if you catch a sale.


PGHammer

join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
said by b10010011:

said by fifty nine:

That's changing. It used to be that you could only get a Cablecard tuner as part of a whole new PC from HP and others. Now Cablelabs loosened the restrictions so that you can pop a cablecard tuner into any old PC.
Sure but do the math.

four-tuner version of the card somewhere between $300 and $600. (so lets say $200-$300 for a two tuner version)

A PC powerful enough to record two HD streams while playing back an HD recording is going to be in the $1000+ range as none of these cards have hardware encoders for HD recording.

A Tivo-HD with lifetime subscription is about $700 and even less if you catch a sale.
A PC powerful enough to support the Ceton requires nothing more than a quad-core from Intel or AMD (and not even a recent one; even a Phenom X4 (first-generation) or Q6600 (no longer manufactured by Intel) will do quite nicely). Or, if you want something from the current generation, Phenom II X4 or i5-750. Such PCs (the current-generation ones) are not even $800.

However, most cable companies (and Comcast in particular) have no interest (and less desire) to deploy as finicky and persnickety a technology as CableCARD; worse, fewer and fewer TVs nowadays support them! (Looking for one in a big-box retailer? You won't find one at Best Buy, or Wal-Mart, either. If you find one, it will likely be not only a closeout but one of those slow-selling-as-molasses-in-Antarctica rear-projection TVs, and at a specialty-retailer or e-tailer like overstock.com or buy,com.)

Head over to AVSForum (»www.avsforum.com) sometime and check out the problems folks are running into to get CableCARD supporting TVs (in fact, any CableCARD-supporting device outside of Tivo). The reality is that Tivo (alone of all the companies in the CEA) went the extra mile to support CableCARD, while the majority of the CEA membership didn't even go the first mile.


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

4 edits
reply to b10010011
said by b10010011:

said by fifty nine:

That's changing. It used to be that you could only get a Cablecard tuner as part of a whole new PC from HP and others. Now Cablelabs loosened the restrictions so that you can pop a cablecard tuner into any old PC.
Sure but do the math.

four-tuner version of the card somewhere between $300 and $600. (so lets say $200-$300 for a two tuner version)

A PC powerful enough to record two HD streams while playing back an HD recording is going to be in the $1000+ range as none of these cards have hardware encoders for HD recording.

A TiVo-HD with lifetime subscription is about $700 and even less if you catch a sale.
No encoding is necessary. the HD stream is just recorded as is. You only need to decode it when watching. A very cheap dual core has no problem recording multiple streams. An HD stream is very slow. at most 19mbs and a USB 5400 rpm drive can do that.

I was recording and watching HD programing in 2001 with a P3 . A few years ago I had a cheap dual core with two USB tuners and a USB storage drive. It had zero problems recording two HD programs, watching a program on that PC and sending two programs to two other PCs on my gigabit network. All concurrently.

And this is with all the content being read and written to/from the same USB drive and this was a few years ago. A current cheap PC should have no problems if my cheap PC from a few years ago could do it.

krichek

join:2004-02-15
Roseville, CA
reply to b10010011
said by b10010011:

said by fifty nine:

That's changing. It used to be that you could only get a Cablecard tuner as part of a whole new PC from HP and others. Now Cablelabs loosened the restrictions so that you can pop a cablecard tuner into any old PC.
Sure but do the math.

four-tuner version of the card somewhere between $300 and $600. (so lets say $200-$300 for a two tuner version)

A PC powerful enough to record two HD streams while playing back an HD recording is going to be in the $1000+ range as none of these cards have hardware encoders for HD recording.

A Tivo-HD with lifetime subscription is about $700 and even less if you catch a sale.
The specs listed on the Ceton website are well below a PC in the $1000+ range and frankly I think they are just being cautious. The system doesn't need to be powerful at all and the cards don't need hardware encoders either. Why?

Because the card is simply recording the stream presented by your cable provider. Your hard drive choice is arguably more important then how powerful a CPU you have, provided said CPU was made sometime with in the past 2 years or so.


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

1 edit
said by krichek:

said by b10010011:

said by fifty nine:

That's changing. It used to be that you could only get a Cablecard tuner as part of a whole new PC from HP and others. Now Cablelabs loosened the restrictions so that you can pop a cablecard tuner into any old PC.
Sure but do the math.

four-tuner version of the card somewhere between $300 and $600. (so lets say $200-$300 for a two tuner version)

A PC powerful enough to record two HD streams while playing back an HD recording is going to be in the $1000+ range as none of these cards have hardware encoders for HD recording.

A Tivo-HD with lifetime subscription is about $700 and even less if you catch a sale.
The specs listed on the Ceton website are well below a PC in the $1000+ range and frankly I think they are just being cautious. The system doesn't need to be powerful at all and the cards don't need hardware encoders either. Why?

Because the card is simply recording the stream presented by your cable provider. Your hard drive choice is arguably more important then how powerful a CPU you have, provided said CPU was made sometime with in the past 2 years or so.
Even one made several years ago would not have a problem. The HD streams are very slow. 19mbs at most. even an old 5400 rpm drive can handle multiple HD streams being read and written concurrently without any hiccups.

krichek

join:2004-02-15
Roseville, CA

1 edit
said by aaronwt:

Even one made several years ago would not have a problem. The HD streams are very slow. 19mbs at most. even an old 5400 rpm drive can handle multiple HD streams being read and written concurrently without any hiccups.
I chose "within the last 2 years or so" simply because the card will require a PCI-e slot when it first arrives. They have stated a USB version may appear but for now, a board with a PCI-e slot is going to give you a CPU made within the past 2-3 years.

I know the actual requirements are much less. Heck, I remember recording OTA HD on a 700MHz Duron processor, (It did have a HW decoding card tho)


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to PGHammer
said by PGHammer:

However, most cable companies (and Comcast in particular) have no interest (and less desire) to deploy as finicky and persnickety a technology as CableCARD; worse, fewer and fewer TVs nowadays support them! (Looking for one in a big-box retailer? You won't find one at Best Buy, or Wal-Mart, either. If you find one, it will likely be not only a closeout but one of those slow-selling-as-molasses-in-Antarctica rear-projection TVs, and at a specialty-retailer or e-tailer like overstock.com or buy,com.)

Head over to AVSForum (»www.avsforum.com) sometime and check out the problems folks are running into to get CableCARD supporting TVs (in fact, any CableCARD-supporting device outside of Tivo). The reality is that Tivo (alone of all the companies in the CEA) went the extra mile to support CableCARD, while the majority of the CEA membership didn't even go the first mile.
The reality is that problems notwithstanding, CableCARD is all we have right now to escape from cable box hell.

After using a S3 TiVo I will never go back to a cable box, ever. In fact being able to use a TiVo is the only reason I tolerate cable in the first place. I would be using satellite which has more HD channels in better quality if it weren't for CableCARD.

So I view CableCARD as a necessary evil, and I am glad that the FCC is requiring it. Until some better solution comes along, that is.

krichek

join:2004-02-15
Roseville, CA
reply to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

said by b10010011:

Yeah, there are PC tuner cards that can use a cable card and they would allow your PC to receive every channel a set top box does.

Bu they are only single tuner cards, so like in the picture you would need multiple cards to record multiple channels at the same time

So in reality a lifetime subscribed Tivo-HD is a more cost effective solution than a media center PC for a DVR.
That's changing. It used to be that you could only get a Cablecard tuner as part of a whole new PC from HP and others. Now Cablelabs loosened the restrictions so that you can pop a cablecard tuner into any old PC.
Provided it's running Windows 7.


60529262

join:2007-01-11
Chicago, IL
reply to PGHammer
Spoken like a cable company PR hack.

If you kill the demand by not making them widely available of course the manufacturers are not going to support it. You NCTA people are so fscking transparent.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to krichek
said by krichek:

said by fifty nine:

said by b10010011:

Yeah, there are PC tuner cards that can use a cable card and they would allow your PC to receive every channel a set top box does.

Bu they are only single tuner cards, so like in the picture you would need multiple cards to record multiple channels at the same time

So in reality a lifetime subscribed Tivo-HD is a more cost effective solution than a media center PC for a DVR.
That's changing. It used to be that you could only get a Cablecard tuner as part of a whole new PC from HP and others. Now Cablelabs loosened the restrictions so that you can pop a cablecard tuner into any old PC.
Provided it's running Windows 7.
That's correct.

But it's a HUGE leap from when you had to have a PC from HP or another OEM with a signed BIOS before you would even be allowed to connect the tuner to your PC.

I'm a TiVo fan and I'm seriously considering a media center PC due to the fact that I can do 4 tuners instead of just two and not pay a sub fee to tivo. TiVo was great in the early days but lately has been quite disappointing.

b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?

join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
Reviews:
·Comcast Formerl..
reply to aaronwt
said by aaronwt:

I was recording and watching HD programing in 2001 with a P3 . A few years ago I had a cheap dual core with two USB tuners and a USB storage drive. It had zero problems recording two HD programs, watching a program on that PC and sending two programs to two other PCs on my gigabit network. All concurrently.

And this is with all the content being read and written to/from the same USB drive and this was a few years ago. A current cheap PC should have no problems if my cheap PC from a few years ago could do it.
I would like to see that. I have a Hauppauge PCIe HD tuner card and my dual core AMD 4800+ has trouble even displaying an HD channel without frequent pauses. Recording even one HD channels is impossible and I have a fast SATA drive.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
You have a problem with your computer/software then. I have no problem recording two simultaneous 1080i streams from OTA with my 1.6GHz G4 PowerBook. I definitely can't watch them on the machine, but I have no problem recording. As aaronwt See Profile stated, there's no encoding and your tuner card and computer should just drop the MPEG2 files to your hard drive.


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to b10010011
said by b10010011:

said by aaronwt:

I was recording and watching HD programing in 2001 with a P3 . A few years ago I had a cheap dual core with two USB tuners and a USB storage drive. It had zero problems recording two HD programs, watching a program on that PC and sending two programs to two other PCs on my gigabit network. All concurrently.

And this is with all the content being read and written to/from the same USB drive and this was a few years ago. A current cheap PC should have no problems if my cheap PC from a few years ago could do it.
I would like to see that. I have a Hauppauge PCIe HD tuner card and my dual core AMD 4800+ has trouble even displaying an HD channel without frequent pauses. Recording even one HD channels is impossible and I have a fast SATA drive.
Something must be wrong with your system. The hard drive will not be the bottle neck since a 5400 rpm drive is more than fast enough. And I was running two HD tuners off USB with no hiccups.
I've run my tuners on other systems I own with no problems either. All on systems I had built a few years ago. I haven't used my Cat's Eye tuners in while now since I have a bunch of TiVos to use instead.


PGHammer

join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
reply to 60529262
said by 60529262:

Spoken like a cable company PR hack.

If you kill the demand by not making them widely available of course the manufacturers are not going to support it. You NCTA people are so fscking transparent.
Wrong, as usual.

I spoke as the owner (and purchaser) of a TV that I bought specifically BECAUSE it supported CableCARD; for me, CableCARD was a requirement strictly BECAUSE I wanted no part of a set-top box. The TV works fine (it's still on my bedroom wall, and still running today); however, I also followed the horror (and lots of pain) that was posted by fellow purchasers of TVs that supported CableCARD (head over to »www.avsforum.com and read for yourself).

My purchase of a TV that supported CableCARD was decidedly atypical because most folks that bought HDTVs then (as now) bought based on price (not features), and CableCARD support was an option in 2005 (when I bought my plasma TV) and a very expensive one, even for a plasma HDTV. (In fact, Philips sold quite a few of the 42PF5XXX models in 2005, despite the sub-par plasma panel and lack of CableCARD support in the 7xxx and top-end 9xxx. The model that Philips replaced my 7320A/37A with lacked CableCARD, but used the same panel (and, oddly enough, the SRP actually went up). My Mom wanted to purchase a sub-40" TV with CableCARD in 2008 and she can't buy such a HDTV new today. We've been looking at 55" HDTVs (preferably OLED, but straight LCD and plasmas remain in the running); however, CableCARD isn't available there, either.)

In other words, I'm speaking as a TV purchaser; the only tie I have to cable is that I'm a Comcast customer, and that meant exactly diddly to the point I made.