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quetwo
That VoIP Guy
Premium
join:2004-09-04
East Lansing, MI

New AT&T / Cingular Tower

Click for full size
Picture of the AT&T Doghouse (aka the Cow)
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The 100ft tower. 12 antennas in 6 features off 3 posts. 3 GSM and 3 3G
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temporary cement work to keep the tower up
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CO grade batteries
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DC rect and GSM antenna cabinet
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UTMS antenna systems
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T1 terminating equipment (Acatel/Lucent)
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antenna connecting equipment for GSM
AT&T is in the process of setting up a DAS system on our campus (Distributed Antenna System), but since the paperwork was taking a long time, they decided to deploy a temporary 100ft tower on our campus to get through this semester.

When they are finished, they will have 24 micro-cells on our campus (3 miles wide, 9 miles deep, but only 3x3 are going to be covered).

The attached are of the temporary tower and doghouse that they are deploying right outside my window. They have a temporary 100pair cable running from our basement going to the doghouse, holding about 50 T1's. This tower will service GSM and UMTS service, and should give moderate penetration on our campus.

They just started digging the foundation of their real doghoue that will feed the DAS antennas. Our campus is providing the fiber to interconnect the antennas, but they are installing in locations both of us agreed to. Like the other 6 vendors on our campus, you won't be able to see them from the ground, or really know where they are unless you work for my department. All the vendors install antennas on our roofs to painted to match, and often are confused for ventlation.


drslash
Goya Asma
Premium
join:2002-02-18
Marion, IA

Michigan State University?



Cjaiceman
Premium,MVM
join:2004-10-12
Parker, CO
kudos:2
reply to quetwo

I hope they put that 3G (UMTS) on the 850MHz band...



quetwo
That VoIP Guy
Premium
join:2004-09-04
East Lansing, MI
reply to drslash

Yup.


cooldude9919

join:2000-05-29
kudos:5

So is that how they do 3g in some towers where they cant get anything more than t1's? They just do ~50xt1?


Hahausuck
Premium
join:2003-12-14
kudos:2
reply to quetwo

So nice to see a cable lace job instead of zip ties.



quetwo
That VoIP Guy
Premium
join:2004-09-04
East Lansing, MI
reply to cooldude9919

Most locations are not enabled for DS3 or higher. They just run lots and lots of T1's to a MUX to get the bandwidth there.

Each site is different as to how much bandwidth they need.



kewlkeed
Grouch
Premium
join:2005-02-05
Knowlton, QC
kudos:1
reply to quetwo

Hehehe I was gonna comment on some messyness but it's a temp install... In that case anything goes


zencyl

join:2009-07-24
Huntsville, TX
reply to quetwo

ok im a complete newb. When you said "When they are finished, they will have 24 micro-cells on our campus (3 miles wide, 9 miles deep, but only 3x3 are going to be covered)." does that mean they are going to bury some type of loop antenna 9 miles deep or am i totally missing what was being said? Thanks.



kewlkeed
Grouch
Premium
join:2005-02-05
Knowlton, QC
kudos:1
reply to quetwo

No he means the campus is 3 miles by 9 miles... But they are only gonna cover a 3x3 mile square area of it.

(With 24 micro-cells, that seems to me to be a MASSIVE overkill I would think though? Someone correct me on this please. Unless you're counting every antenna as a "cell" but most of the time here it's the tower itself that basically is referred to as a "cell"... Yes perhaps bad terminology but it's what the techs here say. I would assume you don't have 24 tower/base sites such as this one above on a single campus.)
--
Justin - DSLR resident grouch and Mr Negativity
TSI Fanboy - "Dontchya wish your 'net was hot like mine! Ohhh Dontchya!"
Have a nice day!



quetwo
That VoIP Guy
Premium
join:2004-09-04
East Lansing, MI

No, we will have 24 micro-cells. These are essentially "towers" that are affixed directly to the building roof, or having 1ft antenna masts. These "towers" will have 2 antenna elements (one for UMTS and one for GSM). The large tower that was built (and photoed) is a temporary install only, and does not represent the rest of the install.

On our campus, we need a higher density than a typical area. On any given day, we have a population of about 80,000 people on our campus, and on football / basketball game days we host > 120,000 people. While most of these people won't have an AT&T phone, we are still planning for saturation numbers.



Cjaiceman
Premium,MVM
join:2004-10-12
Parker, CO
kudos:2

Considering how popular the iphone is, and how many college students have one, this is a good plan. I know when I go to a baseball game or football game here in Denver, the 3G is useless, I can't make or receive any calls, and the data is so unstable the IM clients won't even stay connected, not to mention that mms won't work either. I just switch my TyTN II back to edge and everything works, so I could easily see how a lot of phones could eat up a couple towers.
--
Duct tape is like The Force – it has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together



kewlkeed
Grouch
Premium
join:2005-02-05
Knowlton, QC
kudos:1
reply to quetwo

Holy christ... Yeah that's a load for sure. Wow.



joshb
Don't sweat the small stuff.
Premium
join:2006-03-04
Calgary, AB
reply to quetwo

said by quetwo:

No, we will have 24 micro-cells. These are essentially "towers" that are affixed directly to the building roof, or having 1ft antenna masts. These "towers" will have 2 antenna elements (one for UMTS and one for GSM). The large tower that was built (and photoed) is a temporary install only, and does not represent the rest of the install.

On our campus, we need a higher density than a typical area. On any given day, we have a population of about 80,000 people on our campus, and on football / basketball game days we host > 120,000 people. While most of these people won't have an AT&T phone, we are still planning for saturation numbers.
You have me curious, How many phones can a single cell site handle?
--
R.I.P Mom We miss you.

Hahausuck
Premium
join:2003-12-14
kudos:2

I believe that is dependent on the number of T-1's per site, if you will.

A T-1 can handle 24 calls, provided the rest of the channels are not being used for other purposes like data. Then it is a matter of oversubscription. Traffic engineering is used to determine actual loads and predicted loads, so that the carrier can plan sufficiently for upgrades.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but that is my understanding of it.
--
"No job is so important, and no service is so urgent that we cannot take the time to perform our work safely."
-- AT&T, Your World, Destroyed.
--Safety One Tower Rescue Certified
--LLigetfa:"Wimax is like teenage sex. Everyone talks about doing it."



joshb
Don't sweat the small stuff.
Premium
join:2006-03-04
Calgary, AB

Hi AMD Phreak,

I was aware of the T-1 bandwidth issues... The part I am more curious about is the antenna side of things. How many phones can 1 Antenna deal with.

Regards

Joshb
--
R.I.P Mom We miss you.



Killa200
Premium
join:2005-12-02
Southeast TN

Depends on the assigned channel space for the site and the tech they are using


Hahausuck
Premium
join:2003-12-14
kudos:2
reply to quetwo

The antenna is just an antenna, it just radiates the RF energy produced by the Base Station.

The number of calls is defined by the stuff in the shelter.



Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
kudos:3
reply to Hahausuck

said by Hahausuck:

I believe that is dependent on the number of T-1's per site, if you will.

A T-1 can handle 24 calls, provided the rest of the channels are not being used for other purposes like data. Then it is a matter of oversubscription. Traffic engineering is used to determine actual loads and predicted loads, so that the carrier can plan sufficiently for upgrades.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but that is my understanding of it.
Consider yourself corrected.

A T1 actually a DS1 (once it is handed off to the customer) if channelized out at 64K will only transport 24 calls and if it is a primary rate ISDN that number drops to 23 calls as the D channel requires a single 64K channel to handle call setup and teardown.

However in the non-analog PCS and cellular world the DS1’s can carry considerably more calls than a channelized DS1 due to the encoding of the analog voice at the handset before hitting the RF and in turn the subsequent decoding at the MTSO.

This is one of the reasons calls over wireless many times have the quality of two cans connected by a string.

Wayne
--
If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you're not a technician.

Hahausuck
Premium
join:2003-12-14
kudos:2
reply to quetwo

Thanks Wayne. I figured they used some kind of extra compression and what not to pack more than the standard 24 (or 23 if PRI is transport). The horrible audio quality makes sense too.

Of course there is no excuse for the such horrible performance of the ATT wireless network, with the dropped calls and all, especially embaressing...