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Daarken
Rara Avises
Premium Member
join:2005-01-12
Southwest LA

1 edit

Daarken

Premium Member

Home Security Camera System

As a special systems designer, I from time to time get involved with a clients system when they have a situation and a standard technician is not available.
Today I was called out to a residence which was robbed last night. Fortunately the client had bought a covert camera system, which they had all but forgotten about.
When I arrived this afternoon to the location, I was in for a wild ride. The home is owned by a college student (his father had paid for the system and was out of the country). Well the student has a roommate and they had one of those nightly parties they are known for that had a twist. After the evening had slowed down, they noticed someone outside by one of their cars, when the owner went to the window to get a closer look, the front door burst open and 2 young gangsters/wannabe/crooks walked. One of them was holding a revolver the other a 40 or 45 (it looked like a 1911) and both of them where wearing hoodies.
The 2 thieves then proceeded to pat down everyone and get a little rough. The occupants at the time where 2 guys and a stocky chick. Atleast 2 of them got pistol whipped in the process, and the 2 guys made off with a laptop, xbox360/games and cash. It was sort of surreal watching a full home invasion like this.
Ironically because the students where either stoned/drunk the cops felt they where lying and didn't really do anything. (as indicated by the individuals).
The system was able to record the entire incident and some good images can easily be extracted and used for identifying the perpetrators.
Hopefully justice will be swift.
So far they will have multiple felony charges and hopefully goto jail for a long long time when they are caught.

So the moral of this story is, quality home camera systems are becoming popular and if done properly you wouldn't even know the systems are there, and ironically rather inexpensive.

Also keep your door locked (yes the front door was unlocked).

And yes I do have the video(s) and no I won't post them unless the owner gives me written authorization.

Edited context after additional video review.

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

1 edit

mackey

Premium Member

said by Daarken:

So the moral of this story is, quality home camera systems are becoming popular and if done properly you wouldn't even know the systems are there, and ironically rather inexpensive.
They can also be a liability if you live in a 2-party state! Live in a 2-party state and record something like this and you do not have warning signs clearly posted? Guess who's going to jail? (hint: it's not the buglers) Ex: Maryland may charge ACORN video-makers

/mackey

Msradell
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

Msradell

Premium Member

The 2 party laws do not apply to video Security Systems that are used to protect property as is done in this case. They apply to recordings like those done in the Acorn case, where neither party is committing a crime. Even if the situation in this thread had occurred in a state with a very strict two party law the students would not have been charged in this case.

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru

MVM

said by Msradell:

The 2 party laws do not apply to video Security Systems that are used to protect property as is done in this case. They apply to recordings like those done in the Acorn case, where neither party is committing a crime. Even if the situation in this thread had occurred in a state with a very strict two party law the students would not have been charged in this case.
If the video recordings had audio, they they might be covered under wiretap or eavesdropping statutes. If it was video-only, then in most cases it was legal. The fact that the recordings were inside a private residence and the thieves broke into the home further strengthens the student's case that there was no expectation of privacy and the commissioning of the crime.

As always, check state laws though.

In either case if the student's recordings were or weren't legal, that would not impact the illegal act of the robbers. It may be harder to convict, but it's not a get out jail card free.
gregz1
join:2009-10-01

gregz1 to Daarken

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to Daarken
What will most likely happen, is the perps will walk, and those that you described as drunk/stoned will be charged with under the influence of illicit substance. I am going to throw a long shot out here, but those involved should start looking at the recordings of who was at the party, not when the robbery happened. Your suspects will most likely be seen sans masks at the party.

Msradell
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

1 recommendation

Msradell

Premium Member

said by gregz1:

What will most likely happen, is the perps will walk, and those that you described as drunk/stoned will be charged with under the influence of illicit substance. I am going to throw a long shot out here, but those involved should start looking at the recordings of who was at the party, not when the robbery happened. Your suspects will most likely be seen sans masks at the party.
I'm not sure where you live but the I'm assuming it's in one of the northeastern states because it is the type of attitude they have in many cases, protect the criminals, prosecute the innocent. The basic fact here is that a crime was committed (with deadly weapons) in a private residence. Again since it was a private residence whether the video had audio or not doesn't matter since it was done in a private residence and the people committing the crime did not have permission to be there! As far as the issue of the students being stoned/drunk, they couldn't be prosecuted for that based on the recordings but the recordings could possibly be used to get a search warrant for future prosecution.
dipweed23
join:2009-07-21
Ypsilanti, MI

dipweed23 to Daarken

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to Daarken
Some times the best deterent to the crimes happening in the first place is a highly visible security camera installation. It won't help much if they aren't recording, but I have always recomended using vandal proof high visability cameras.
I live in a very bad area myself, and both neighbors have been broken into. The difference is that I have security cameras, and every one knows it!
MOST fake cameras can be spotted a mile away, so don't rely on those $10 dummy cams for protection. Getting the real thing, hooked to a DVR that is recording all channels 24/7, will auto reboot if power has been lost (and UPS dies) is best. Enough storage for 72 hrs is recomended, but 1 week is better. Having a system you can review footage from remotely is a good idea also. Motion activated recording is good for some areas, especially if it caches the video and can start the capture from 5 seconds prior to being activated.
In my system I have 6 cameras, 4 outside and 1 inside looking at the hallway to the back door, and one inside pointing at the front door. Camera inside recording the front door is also recording audio. My signs state "24 hour audio/video recording on these premisis". Both neighbors did sign a waiver stating they can't sue for me partially recording their property, because my cameras partially cover their lawns. The one that points towards the street is masked to not record the property across the street.
Always check local laws regarding security cameras, especially in residential systems. If you happen to be recording in a neighbor's window or something, you can get in serious crap!

Daarken
Rara Avises
Premium Member
join:2005-01-12
Southwest LA

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Daarken

Premium Member

No audio was recorded.
The system was installed and used as per local/state code.
Regardless of the state of intoxication the students where in, the criminals commited multiple crimes.
This are the charges that usually fall under Home Invasion.
1. Assault with a Deadly Weapon
2. Armed Robbery
3. Theft of over $1000
4. Kidnapping
5. Conspiracy
6. Forced entry
etc. etc.

To answer Gregz reply.
Sorry down here, they won't walk, I doubt they would walk in Louisville.
The individuals where all of legal age, so being drunk and then getting robbed is irrelevant to what occured.
The party was only 5 people, and no the perps where not there.

Correction in reply.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

KrK to Daarken

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to Daarken
What I'd like to have is some clearly visible cameras (for the deterrent effect) combined with covert hidden cameras (in case someone tries something stupid anyway). Ideally the "Easy" cameras could also be hooked to an "obvious" recorder so that the ever so smart thieves would think they took the evidence (took the tape etc) and that way NOT go looking for the real recorder concealed somewhere else....
KrK

KrK to Msradell

Premium Member

to Msradell
said by Msradell:

I'm not sure where you live but the I'm assuming it's in one of the northeastern states because it is the type of attitude they have in many cases, protect the criminals, prosecute the innocent.
Nah. He probably lives in the Southern states or some other area---- where because these people were partying they are "guilty" and "got what they deserved."
gregz1
join:2009-10-01

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You need to quit watching so much crime drama. The charges you assume the perps would get, would be pretty much dismissed by the judge. Numbers 1 is possible, but not likable, 2 yes if the persons getting robbed can prove, but doubtful, since they where intoxicated. Number 3 is unlikable, 4, no way, because you have to prove it. 5, Possible with the ones in the house, but not even conceivable at all. As for 6, If the door was opened by someone inside, there was no forced entry.

Again, quit watching Crime dramas, and let the real detectives & Attorneys handle it if it did really happen.

bent
and Inga
Premium Member
join:2004-10-04
Loveland, CO

bent

Premium Member

said by gregz1:

You need to quit watching so much crime drama. The charges you assume the perps would get, would be pretty much dismissed by the judge. Numbers 1 is possible, but not likable, 2 yes if the persons getting robbed can prove, but doubtful, since they where intoxicated. Number 3 is unlikable, 4, no way, because you have to prove it. 5, Possible with the ones in the house, but not even conceivable at all. As for 6, If the door was opened by someone inside, there was no forced entry.

Again, quit watching Crime dramas, and let the real detectives & Attorneys handle it if it did really happen.
You made me LOL.

wilbilt
Pronto Resurrected
Premium Member
join:2004-01-11
Oroville, CA

wilbilt to Daarken

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to Daarken
Make sure the system is good quality.

We bought a couple of those 16-camera DVR systems from Costco about a year ago. They were just under $1,000 each.

So far, 1 DVR was junk out of the box and we are down 6 cameras and counting...

Daarken
Rara Avises
Premium Member
join:2005-01-12
Southwest LA

Daarken

Premium Member

If your buying a system from us, we warranty our work and stand behind the hardware. The company I work for is privately owned, and the "bottom line" is not always as important as the customer is.
We do not sell systems you purchase from costco/sams/box stores, our systems are dealer only, and you have to certified and licensed by the state.
Gregz you made me LOL.
I have been in this line of work for over 15 years and I have seen what footage like this can do in a trial.
Also, the charges listed are usually THE STANDARD CHARGES under a home invasion case.
And to clear up a little confusion on your part.
I don't watch crime dramas, in my line of work we call that the CSI factor.
gregz1
join:2009-10-01

gregz1

Member

Regardless what you think or believe, I would not be running to the Internets telling the whole world what happened. I love the Human Species. They have shorter memories then an Elephant, and love to run their mouths.

Daarken
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join:2005-01-12
Southwest LA

Daarken

Premium Member

Regardless of what you think, I am only conveying this in reference to the usefullness of the equipment and a story that came out of said use.

fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
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join:2001-05-25
Limbo

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to Daarken
Some time ago, I began adding network cameras to my house. Initially two in the main open area where someone intent on breaking in would be stealing things. They're not completely hidden, but they're not obvious either.

Now I've got 5 set up in various areas and if they detect motion, they take a sequence of snapshots and store them on a hidden NAS device. I can also pull them up from anywhere in the world to see what's going on (they're behind multiple levels of protection so I have no concerns about privacy).

Have one facing the front door that also emails me if it picks up motion during business hours (while I'm out of the house). Works great for knowing when the UPS guy delivered a package.

I pulled one up while I was in Boston earlier this year and caught a snapshot of my cat lying on the kitchen counter top. He knows he's not supposed to be up there but knew we were gone for an extended period and most certainly thought he wouldn't be caught.

CJ30
join:2000-07-18
USA

CJ30

Member

I hope you beat the hell out of that damn cat....

j/k PETA

I have been contemplating a camera set up at the house myself, but I don't know where you get saying they are inexpensive. The wireless cameras I have been looking at are pretty damn expensive. The ones I looked at were AXIS.

Are there cheaper ones available that will work just as well?

fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium Member
join:2001-05-25
Limbo

fireflier

Premium Member

Axis is supposed to be good. Mine are Panasonic. I think you'll find the BL-C131A and BL-C111a may be more affordable and I've found the video quality to be good. It's not going to be Hi-def, but it's good.

The "integration" software I use for my video, security, etc. is called ECS. »www.omnipotencesoftware.com.

And, no, I didn't beat the cat. We laugh about it. It won't do any good to punish a pet 4 days after their offense. You can't show them the picture and then spank them and expect them to make the connection.

steve1515
Premium Member
join:2000-08-07
Peabody, MA

steve1515

Premium Member

How does the BL-C131A perform at night?

Anonymous_
Anonymous
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join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1

3 edits

Anonymous_ to Daarken

Premium Member

to Daarken
said by Daarken:

And yes I do have the video(s) and no I won't post them unless the owner gives me written authorization.

Edited context after additional video review.
post video on youtube
someone might recognize them well get it all ready
Expand your moderator at work
Bobcat79
Premium Member
join:2001-02-04

2 edits

Bobcat79 to Daarken

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to Daarken

Re: Home Security Camera System

There was a pseudo-reality show where they would break into peoples' houses and steal their stuff to show them how bad their security was. They would return the stuff and upgrade the houses' security.

In one episode, there was a guy with a big house (he called it "Club Marko") on a lake. He had an alarm system and a CCTV system. Well, the alarm panel was in an unalarmed crawlspace, so it was disconnected easily. The thieves stole the DVR for the cameras. They then cleaned the place out, including stealing his safe and his $130,000 Mercedes. Total time: 13 minutes.
Expand your moderator at work

Dennis
Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL

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Re: Home Security Camera System

Costco sells a lot of video camera setups (with DVR's and some even with IP support for remote viewing via browser) for some decent prices. I picked up a 4 camera DVR night vision system for like 300 a while back.
Bobcat79
Premium Member
join:2001-02-04

Bobcat79

Premium Member

said by Dennis:

Costco sells a lot of video camera setups (with DVR's and some even with IP support for remote viewing via browser) for some decent prices. I picked up a 4 camera DVR night vision system for like 300 a while back.
said by wilbilt:

Make sure the system is good quality.

We bought a couple of those 16-camera DVR systems from Costco about a year ago. They were just under $1,000 each.

So far, 1 DVR was junk out of the box and we are down 6 cameras and counting...

Daarken
Rara Avises
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join:2005-01-12
Southwest LA

Daarken

Premium Member

The Axis brand is a popular brand of quality Cameras and can be recommened, however your paying more for the name then the camera.
Multiple camera brands are made by the same people, just relabeled.
Cameras with over 500 TV lines tend to have the best picture quality, that is untill you move into mega-pixel cameras.
I was even on newegg today showing a friend some of the cheap DVRs they sell, and They have some without hard drives etc so you can build your own storage solution. Most DVRs use a linux or embedded OS that is stored on the motherboard. Almost all DVRs now support an internet connection, however we found that we had issues with residential DSL blocking the required ports for the DVR to be accessed remotely.
Also Night Vision Cameras quality differs greatly between brands, (they really only have a range of 15 to 20 ft, so an IR Illuminator might be needed if you want to cover a broad area.
Today I had to pull a video for a client who captured a daylight breakin on the home next door to thier buisness. However the video quality was very poor because the owner wanted the longest record time in lieu of quality. After the video was stored, I changed it to the highest quality and showed them what they could have seen. They immediately requested a larger HD. The unit only came with one 250GB drive.

fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
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join:2001-05-25
Limbo

fireflier to steve1515

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It doesn't have it's own IrLED illumination, but it does have a "night" mode that allows B/W imaging in low-light settings.

It won't see in total darkness, but it can see in low light.

For my front door, it's not an issue because I have low-voltage lighting with one on the front door so the camera has no issues.

If you're wanting something that can look into total darkness, you'll either want a different camera, or will want to experiment with IrLED illumination with the BL series cameras. While not documented, many cameras will pick up objects illuminated by Ir. Since I've never tested the Panasonic with it, I can't really say how it works but there's always a chance it will, depending on the wavelength of the IrLEDs you use.