Topic 'Re: I dont get it' in forum '' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23141600 en Sat, 25 May 2013 02:12:53 EDT Sat, 25 May 2013 02:12:53 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23148643 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23148643 Thu, 08 Oct 2009 08:51:17 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23146037 said by shaner:

I guess I'm asking why AT&T can't restrict access to their network by competitive forces? Simple answer: Because they are a dumbpipe and just don't know it yet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23146037 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 13:28:40 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23145576 said by fifty nine:

said by Fox McCloud:

I agree with your point Shaner. That said, I doubt Skype is damage AT&T's network, I just agree that since it is THEIR network, they should be able to make the rules--it's only logical.
So if AT&T wanted to restrict access to websites geared towards African-Americans, Latinos, Gay and Lesbians or women's groups should they be allowed to, because it's their network?Yes, they should be able to do all those things--I might not agree with any of that, but they have the right to do that, since again, it's their property.

The answer is no, because while it is their network they are subject to regulation, since they are using public airwaves and public rights of way.
only within the current paradigm--airwaves are no different than land, and should be treated as such; sadly, Mr. Hoover didn't like this idea, thanks to influence by special interests.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23145576 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:13:34 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23145259 said by shaner:

Yeah, I certainly don't mean to drag up net neutrality arguments.

I was more thinking that allowing Skype onto their network didn't damage their physical network per se, but it does do damage to their financial network.

I guess I'm asking why AT&T can't restrict access to their network by competitive forces?
So, should Comcast & AT&T be able to block access to netflix and youtube for their residential broadband customers, since they provide competing services?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23145259 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:26:35 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23144998 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23144998 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 10:40:35 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23144916
1) You're a telco shill

OR

2) You don't understand that the user has already paid the telco for data service]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23144916 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 10:26:20 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23144369 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23144369 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 08:21:13 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23144362 said by Fox McCloud:

I agree with your point Shaner. That said, I doubt Skype is damage AT&T's network, I just agree that since it is THEIR network, they should be able to make the rules--it's only logical.
So if AT&T wanted to restrict access to websites geared towards African-Americans, Latinos, Gay and Lesbians or women's groups should they be allowed to, because it's their network?

The answer is no, because while it is their network they are subject to regulation, since they are using public airwaves and public rights of way.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23144362 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 08:19:03 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23144253
If they are worried about financial performance, then what you're saying is that AT&T should be able to restrict anything that they can't make additional money in providing the service. That means good-bye to Google Maps, because they have their own service. Good-bye to email, because they too have their own email. Whatever AT&T wants to make money on above and beyond the $30 per month, they should be able to cut off, charge extra for and eliminate any consumer choice.

How 1950's. Here's your email, here's your mapping, and here's your big black bakeline phone that you can only get from the phone company.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23144253 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 07:32:26 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23144004
She paid. You should deliver.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23144004 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 04:04:58 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23144001
1. It's anti-competitive.
2. The customers want it, and pay for it. Therefore they should get it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23144001 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 04:02:42 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23143876
ATT is unfairly and non competitively restricting how and what data i use. Suppose they restricted access to the New York times or data hogging Utube?

I am paying for a service that is misrepresented as being open data access and it is not! ATT has a history of bullying customers, the FCC is supposed to protect us. Remember also ATT uses PUBLIC airways (under license) they do not own these airways.

Does this make any sense?

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23143876 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 02:11:40 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23143579
I was more thinking that allowing Skype onto their network didn't damage their physical network per se, but it does do damage to their financial network.

I guess I'm asking why AT&T can't restrict access to their network by competitive forces?
--
I'm a man, but I can change. If I have to. I guess.

The opinions in this post are wholly my own and in no way reflect the opinions of, or are influenced by, Bell Canada or its affiliate companies.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23143579 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 00:11:14 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23143495 said by shaner:

Why isn't AT&T (or any other carrier) allowed to restrict what applications access their network? I mean sure, be honest about it, but why should they be forced to carry a semi-competitive service which has the possibility to eat into their revenues? Maybe AT&T should bill Skype for the data traffice their "free" service uses.
Sounds like you drunk the same Koolaide that the telco execs did when they were talking, loudly, about Google (et al.) should have to pay them for use of their pipes to deliver content to the telcos' customers.
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23143495 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:45:01 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23143424
As for the AT&T thing, you are paying for 5GB of data per month (since unlimited actually means 5GB with US carriers) to use however. It shouldn't matter how you are using that data, especially since you are paying for a whole lot more than you are getting. Not even considering that I was able to use Skype over 3G with my WinMo phone, just not with my iPhone.

Think of it more that you are being given a pipe that goes from your home to your dumpster to dispose of whatever you may want to dispose of with. There are no regulations on what can go into said dumpster; however, the company who is giving you the pipe decides to say that you can't put any paper down it. It won't hurt the pipe any more than throwing plastic or metal down it and you are entirely allowed to put anything in the dumpster... But you just can't put paper down it because the pipe company wants to charge you more to use a different pipe for that paper. Nevermind the fact that the company who provides the dumpster actually has a machine capable of separating the paper from the metal and plastic... You just can't use that pipe for paper...

The fact that AT&T or any other company can tell us what we can and can't use our connection for is really ridiculous. It's bad enough they put show low caps on service that costs so much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23143424 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:27:10 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23143411 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23143411 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:24:17 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23143380
Should you pay me now?

There are 2 sides.... :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23143380 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:15:06 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23142851 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23142851 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:27:51 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23142353
*shrug*]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23142353 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:53:11 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23142225
You have gone way over and beyond in your rendition of your analogy of a taxi to broadband. I know Taxi's where I am from limit where you can put your groceries, and certainly not in a seat that can be occupied by another paying customer. When I use my broadband connection, no one else can be riding on my bit stream that I have contracted to pay for up to my limit.

This analogy is poor, very ... very poor.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23142225 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:28:56 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23142097 said by shaner:

Well AT&T sells you access to their network which they paid for. AT&T should be able to reserve the right to restrict anything they might feel impedes the performance of their network. Whether that means impeding the physical or financial performance, that decision should be up to them. Whether you agree with that decision is not the issue here. Just because they sell access does not mean the users have the right to do whatever they want.

I know it's fashionable to bash telcos and large corporations, but there really are 2 sides to every story.
It's not about impeding the performance of their network.

Analogies suck, but since you insist.

It's more like paying for internet from your cable company, then they refuse to let you watch youtube, because it 'provides a competing service, and a company shouldn't be expected to facilitate their competition'.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23142097 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:00:35 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23142014
Secondly, your example is way out of proportion. A more appropriate analogy would be a licensed taxicab (which is regulated by the Government) denying someone a ride to the airport because they can make more profit with someone who just wants a ride a few blocks away.

AT&T's network used public airwaves and they are supposed to serve the public with reasonable service. If they fail to do so they should have their licenses revoked and someone who can serve the public interest replace them. That is the price they should pay for using public airwaves.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23142014 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 18:43:36 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23141814
But it is certain that apps like skype would cannibalize their voice revenues and those revenues are in part necessary to build, expand and/or maintain the network. So if voice revenues drop, data revenues will have to go up. People will pay for all of this one way or another.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23141814 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 18:05:07 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23141805
I know it's fashionable to bash telcos and large corporations, but there really are 2 sides to every story.
--
I'm a man, but I can change. If I have to. I guess.

The opinions in this post are wholly my own and in no way reflect the opinions of, or are influenced by, Bell Canada or its affiliate companies.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23141805 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 18:03:14 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23141710 Creepy imagery though... ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23141710 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:46:24 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23141667
I dunno, it just seems like this:

Imagine your neighbour asks if you can give her a lift to the store. She'll pay you $30 to provide this service. When you pull up, she loads your back seat with a huge slobbering, shedding dog. She also lights up a smoke all the way to the store. Coming back, she loads your trunk full of groceries, and manages to strap some patio furniture to your roof.

It's your car. It's your gas. You laid out all the capital costs. But as long as she pays you that $30, she can do with your investment all she wants.
--
I'm a man, but I can change. If I have to. I guess.

The opinions in this post are wholly my own and in no way reflect the opinions of, or are influenced by, Bell Canada or its affiliate companies.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23141667 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:40:11 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23141630 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23141630 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:33:31 EDT Re: I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23141619 said by shaner:

Maybe AT&T should bill Skype for the data traffice their "free" service uses.
The CUSTOMER pays for the traffic Skype uses when they cut their monthly check to AT&T.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-dont-get-it-23141619 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:30:49 EDT I dont get it http://www.dslreports.com/forum/I-dont-get-it-23141600 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/I-dont-get-it-23141600 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:27:52 EDT