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| reply to Simba7
Re: So... said by Simba7:All Telephone Companies are owned by the U.S. Government? That kinda explains alot. They're so regulated, it seems like a matter of semantics to say they're not "owned."
Consider banks. You can't open one without the blessing of the Treasury Dept. You can't open one without paying fees for FDIC deposit insurance.
At some point, it seems like a minor formality that the bank (or telco) president is paid through private channels (boards of directors, compensation committees) instead of directly from the government.
Mark |
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| said by amigo_boy:They're so regulated, it seems like a matter of semantics to say they're not "owned." Consider banks. You can't open one without the blessing of the Treasury Dept. You can't open one without paying fees for FDIC deposit insurance. At some point, it seems like a minor formality that the bank (or telco) president is paid through private channels (boards of directors, compensation committees) instead of directly from the government. Mark Progressing down the road to a Soviet Russia or a North Korea isn't the same as having arrived there.
It's true, this type of regulation is an essential step toward faceless bureaucrats, one day deciding each meaningful detail of your life.
However it isn't a foregone conclusion that Americans will eventually pawn the remainder of their liberty for what they believed was security; yet.
NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. |
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| said by Noah Vail:Progressing down the road to a Soviet Russia or a North Korea isn't the same as having arrived there. At what point would you say banks and telcos aren't owned?
I think it's wrong to say they own themselves. They're heavily dependent upon Public Law for their existence. To some extent that makes them owned by the public.
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| said by amigo_boy:At what point would you say banks and telcos aren't owned? Mark At the point where restriction hasn't yet become dictation.
NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. |
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1 edit | said by Noah Vail:said by amigo_boy:At what point would you say banks and telcos aren't owned? Mark At the point where restriction hasn't yet become dictation. That's nebulous enough. At what point would that be?
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1 edit | said by amigo_boy:That's nebulous enough. At what point would that be?Mark You really can't pull the larger meaning from that statement?
It's a core principle. It involves being able to define things like strength and weakness. As long as you're intuitive enough to define your principles and
you're courageous enough
to stand
by
them
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. |
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| said by Noah Vail:said by amigo_boy:That's nebulous enough. At what point would that be?Mark It involves being able to define things like strength and weakness. Everyone defines those things a little differently. That's why we have the FCC to regulate telcos, and the FDIC regulating banks (instead of going back to the "good old days" when banks issued their own currencies, with no guarantee that any bank, even the issuer, would recognize it.).
Back to the original question: at what level of regulation would a telco (or bank) not be owned? The "good old days?"
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| said by amigo_boy:Back to the original question: at what level of regulation would a telco (or bank) not be owned? The "good old days?"Mark Regulation is the restriction of a full ability. Restricting a person leaves their core being intact; to a point. Most folks have a breaking point where the crushing weight of onerous restrictions would disfigure their character. But even at that, it is still their character.
With Dictation, I refer to the molding and defining of a person from their first moment of existence, to meet the needs of government. In this case the individual's core being never develops into the individual.
That's a plus for The State as it steadily eliminates the negative impact that individuals have upon It's Purposes.
It's so much better to build to suit.
Whether it's one individual or a collection (like a business); I believe this principle applies the same.
NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. |
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| said by Noah Vail:Whether it's one individual or a collection (like a business); I believe this principle applies the same. Trying to help you get to the rubber-meets-the-road part. At what point of regulation (or, leaving their "core intact") would a telco (or bank) not be owned?
For example, if a bank or telco can't even come into existence without the blessing of regulatory agencies, is its "core intact?"
Mark |
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| Hahaha. NV is so blinded by his ideology he can`t even begin to look at reality. It`s funny at first... but then when you realize how deluded he is it`s kind of sad.
NV, do you have any specifics, or will you just spout emotional rhetoric based on nothing but stupid beliefs on how things used to be all grand and golden in the past? |
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| reply to amigo_boy
Re: So... said by amigo_boy:For example, if a bank or telco can't even come into existence without the blessing of regulatory agencies, is its "core intact?"Mark If the regulatory agencies design what the bank will be from the ground up, it's their bank - an extension of themselves. It never had a chance to be it's own entity and will always be beholden to it's masters.
NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. |
|
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| said by Noah Vail:If the regulatory agencies design what the bank will be from the ground up, it's their bank - an extension of themselves. It never had a chance to be it's own entity and will always be beholden to it's masters. Do you believe that's what's happening now when (for this example) banks can't come into existence without the blessing of the agency, are required to maintain certain amounts of capital reserves, pay fees to the government to insure deposits, and prohibited from issuing their own currencies (after the debacles of the 1800s)?
How many of these things cause a bank to "never have a chance to be its own entity?" All of them? One of them? None?
That was my only point about how I wouldn't get worked up about the government saying they own the telcos. It's my position they own telcos (and banks) to some degree. So, I can understand the rationale that an extraordinary relationship exists.
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| said by amigo_boy:Do you believe that's what's happening now when (for this example) banks can't come into existence without the blessing of the agency, are required to maintain certain amounts of capital reserves, pay fees to the government to insure deposits, and prohibited from issuing their own currencies (after the debacles of the 1800s)? How many of these things cause a bank to "never have a chance to be its own entity?" All of them? One of them? None? Mark None of those things is a government agency designing and constructing a bank to to serve it.
NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. |
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| said by Noah Vail:said by amigo_boy:Do you believe that's what's happening now when (for this example) banks can't come into existence without the blessing of the agency, are required to maintain certain amounts of capital reserves, pay fees to the government to insure deposits, and prohibited from issuing their own currencies (after the debacles of the 1800s)? How many of these things cause a bank to "never have a chance to be its own entity?" All of them? One of them? None? Mark None of those things is a government agency designing and constructing a bank to to serve it. When a bank meets Treasury requirements before coming into existence, or pays fees to the government to exclusively insure deposits, or agrees not to issue its own currency.... who is it serving?
Mark |
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| said by amigo_boy:When a bank meets Treasury requirements before coming into existence, or pays fees to the government to exclusively insure deposits, or agrees not to issue its own currency.... who is it serving? Mark Most likely is that it is serving no one.
NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. |
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2 edits | said by Noah Vail:said by amigo_boy:said by Noah Vail:None of those things is a government agency designing and constructing a bank to to serve it. When a bank meets Treasury requirements before coming into existence, or pays fees to the government to exclusively insure deposits, or agrees not to issue its own currency.... who is it serving? Most likely is that it is serving no one. The government can only be said to "own" the enterprise if the government regulates it to serve the government? But, if the regulation which limits the enterprise doesn't serve the government, then the enterprise isn't owned -- even though it's conducting itself in a way that it wouldn't if left to its own, uncoerced choices?
That seems like a convenient way to avoid the problem with your position (that some level of regulation would make them "owned," but unable to articulate what that level would be).
Mark |
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