Verizon Continues Layoffs > Unions

Unions

Mass is anything but fully wired.

I think the economy is going down the tubes for more reasons then just the unions. I was laid off recently as well , and union was not the reason.

I think what we are due to see happen is a drastic cut in the labor force so people can still be "highly paid" and then when it grows again people will be paid much less. Another meltdown will happen and the high paid will be cut in favor of the lower paid.

This cycle will keep happening until we get over our greed marker , which I doubt will happen any time soon. The major issue here is greed not just the unions , and this country just wants to keep bailing out companies , instead of letting them fail and making other countries investments fail.

Countries like china can feel free to call in on it's debt , we will pay it and every other country can as well. our dollar won't be worth jack and it might actually bring humility back to the us.

We have 99 bad problems and the union is not 1.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

Tell that to the IBEW worker who busted his ass and still got laid off so that some lazy sh!thead who had been there a little longer could keep his job.

Greed or not, if people are hired and fired it should be based solely on their need and job performance, not how long they floated around the union toilet bowl.

reply to BosstonesOwn
Then explain to me for example the difference from Toyota workers vs the GM workers. And how How does the GM worker's differ from the Ford Workers too? Mind you Ford didn't take a dime from Obama.

Tell you one thing those union dues went for what?? When I got laid off in the instance I mentioned the union said awww we cant help you sorry, be on your way.

reply to Z80
That is just it man , it's all about who you "blow" not what ya do. Ever notice how people who "got in" to the union via a "friend" never seem to get let go of until the end if they are even let go ?

And they have been there 2 years while they guys that have been there 6 years are gone first ?

I have family in a lot of the local unions and even the auto unions in the midwest.

The unions right now are not the issue. Greed in general is.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

reply to neftv
The difference between Toyota and GM isn't the current workers, it's past workers who draw payments (pension and heathcare) while contributing zero to current production. GM has massive domestic LEGACY costs, they are paying for past workers whereas Toyota is a relatively new US factory presence in the scheme of things. In another 30 years, Toyota will be similarly hammered by US legacy costs just as they are getting hit with legacy costs in Japan.

reply to neftv
They can't help you because you weren't a friend of the local runner.

Don't feel to bad it happens to many , in a perfect world we are graded on job performance , in this world we are graded on how others feel about us and not always job performance.

Maybe you didn't kiss enough ass , I honestly don't know.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

reply to BosstonesOwn
Your examples show the unions are a huge part of the problem particularly in standing in the way of productivity.

reply to neftv

reply to Z80
But there are 99 problems ahead of it , you gotta take the heavy issues on right now , not take a weak issue like unions on.

If you take on the harder issues right now , it may eliminate the weaker issues. Once the bigger issues are dealt with you move to the smaller issues.

Right now productivity is not a concern , keeping these companies afloat seems to be the major one. Which to me is minor.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

And it would be easier to keep them "afloat" if they were permitted to keep the best workers and lose the worst.

reply to Z80

»www.businessweek.com/magazine/co···ed_ssi_5

Detroit has or is currently gutting it's compensation system while Toyota's gets worse (financially speaking). Again, I'm not speaking of the past, I'm speaking of the future where there is going to be parity in labor costs between US automakers and foreign automakers assembling cars in the US and it has always been legacy costs, not hourly wages that hurt the big 3.

The days of a $1.5K difference in labor costs per car are numbered. Toyota can try and cut costs, but they are already pretty lean.

reply to Z80
I totally agree , but I believe in responsibility , if they dump good workers , then the manages should be held accountable for what happens.

Which is not what is happening in america today.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

The problem is the union prevents them from choosing between good and bad workers even if Verizon management had enough brain cells to determine which were good or bad or even cared in the first place.

reply to clock
You can pretty much bet there will be no further FIOS roll outs in Massachusetts. If you don't have it now in your city/town, you won't be getting it. It's quite clear that Verizon is about to cut and run from their non FIOS areas of Massachusetts. I would bet on a sale within the next 12 to 24 months.

reply to neftv
"Unions are ruining the country." Oh boy.

I'll guess I'll have to partly agree with you, but for a different reason. Unions are helping ruin the country--- not because of what they do, but because they aren't strong ENOUGH to protect the workers anymore. What's left of Union labor is divided and run over at will by corporations and the right ideology, so, yes, Unions are adding to the problems in the USA by not being strong or powerful enough to stop the decline.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

reply to Z80

Quality be damned; the union motto. Last hired first fired regardless of job performance is a great way to protect the lazy and incompetent while ignoring any new hire who is motivated and busts ass.

Labor is subject to market forces as well and a worker is only worth what it costs to replace them, nothing more. The union should do their part to insure that their membership is worth a bundle by insisting on excellent job performance. If the union was synonymous with top quality motivated employees instead of lazy shovel leaners, they could get their membership more $$$ and they would have earned every penny.

As it stands now, hard work counts for nothing so why do it?

You're not getting it. You can be fired for performance irregardless of seniority, but they will have to at least prove it, can't just say "you're fired because I say so."

If you don't work hard here you will have a rough time as your slacking falls on other people to pickup and they WILL call you out for it and then undermine you.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini