Verizon Continues Layoffs > Hmmm

Hmmm

right on! What he said.

reply to Z80
I agree with you

reply to Z80
Hard work gets you no where any where.

You always have favoritism and ass kissers who even if you work hard will find a way to get you canned when it comes down to it. Because they won't work hard your a threat to them and they will get you fired or laid off so they look good still in others eyes.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

reply to Z80
Hard work doesn't count for anything in the union. You could work 3x harder than the person next to you, then be laid off while they keep their job.
Union/management relationships are often poor, typically giving poor working conditions (i.e. bad hours, shortened work weeks) as a trade off for pay or benefits.

I worked on both union and management for multiple companies.

1. Union gives a false security of 'seniority'. There is 'some', but don't count on it, unless you work for govt, which won't shutdown/outsource.

2. Seniority vs. performance is a poor model.
3. Union or not, if the company can find a cheaper way to do business, your number may be up. Whether its overseas, cost cutting, new technology (replacing/eliminating position for cheaper process) or automation.

reply to BosstonesOwn
I seen that happen time and time again first hand.

I've been a victim of it 3 times now and , I really don't get offended over it , people can be nasty beasts.

"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place... and I don´t care how tough you are, it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently, if you let it.You, me or nobody, is gonna hit as hard as life. But ain't about how hard you hit... It's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward... how much you can take, and keep moving forward. That´s how winning is done!"

Forget the movie but it's the truth.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

reply to Z80
Not saying it's not a union problem, mind you, but everywhere I've ever worked, layoffs and promotions were always done on the basis of seniority, and not at all based on whether they were doing a good job or even whether they deserved it. And none of those places were unionised.

I lost out on a promotion at an old job three times. In all cases I was told that I was incredibly well qualified for the job - they just didn't give it to me because somebody with more seniority, who wasn't as well regarded, was given it instead. Seniority obsession is a major problem, and it's not solely restricted to places where unions rule.

There's a lot of issues with a lot of unions out there, but the answer is a lot more complicated than just "let's kill all the unions".
--
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world.

Save American Soccer - Stop the MLS!

reply to BosstonesOwn

reply to BosstonesOwn

reply to Z80
So let me see. Everyone who got laid off, (Union) wasn't anything to do with them or their performance, they were awesome, but were unfairly cheated by seniority, while meanwhile, everyone who gets to keep their jobs are lazy buttkissers who stay because of seniority, is that about it?

Sounds like a lot of sour grapes and self-interest in that type of attitude.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

reply to BosstonesOwn

reply to KrK
Obviously not "everyone" but by the admission of the union spokesman, seniority was the driving force behind who was picked to receive the axe.

I know you love unions and defend them at every opportunity, but picking people based on time of employment instead of job performance is indefensible.

Unions are there to negotiate fair wages and benefits great, but they should not stand in the way of increasing productivity. In the end, more people get laid off as a result because so much dead weight is kept.

I just don't buy the argument that seniority always protects lazy employees while better performing employees get laid off.

Performance and experience are always important. Everybody who has a job knows people who work hard and put in their time. They deserve their seniority, every bit of it. Likewise, we all know people who get by doing the bare minimum and are lazy. They also can get protected somewhat by seniority... but performance is ALWAYS important.

I'm POSITIVE their are cases out there where harder working, better employees did get laid off while a lazier, more senior employee was kept on--- but I'm of the opinion this is the exception, not the rule.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

It did in this case, again, according to the union spokesperson.

I think the 'union rule' is what happened here: last hired, first fired. And it isn't just union shops that do this. No matter where it happens, IMO, it's wrong.

Everyone, union member or not, should be judged individually on their job performance and their value to the company. The suits may not be able to pull their heads out of their asses long enough to recognize this doesn't mean the union leadership shouldn't. The better the membership is, the better off the union as a collective is.

So, IMHO, if they were still working, then their performance must be acceptable, or else it's management that's not doing their job.

Why assume the people who had jobs didn't deserve them?
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Because they laid off based on seniority. The union spokesman said those people had work but not seniority.

Seniority should not be a criterion, ever. If you think the length of time someone floats around the union bowl should matter, more power to ya. I don't.

reply to nixen
Ive been through 4 fortune 500's where I lasted 3 levels of cuts at each. Except one I lasted till they decided to outsource to a company and then EDS offered me a slot , which I declined because it was a 25% pay cut.

Once your past the second riff its all down hill.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

reply to Z80