Verizon Continues Layoffs > Unions

reply to neftv

Re: Unions

Tell that to the IBEW worker who busted his ass and still got laid off so that some lazy sh!thead who had been there a little longer could keep his job.

Greed or not, if people are hired and fired it should be based solely on their need and job performance, not how long they floated around the union toilet bowl.

reply to BosstonesOwn
Then explain to me for example the difference from Toyota workers vs the GM workers. And how How does the GM worker's differ from the Ford Workers too? Mind you Ford didn't take a dime from Obama.

Tell you one thing those union dues went for what?? When I got laid off in the instance I mentioned the union said awww we cant help you sorry, be on your way.

reply to Z80
That is just it man , it's all about who you "blow" not what ya do. Ever notice how people who "got in" to the union via a "friend" never seem to get let go of until the end if they are even let go ?

And they have been there 2 years while they guys that have been there 6 years are gone first ?

I have family in a lot of the local unions and even the auto unions in the midwest.

The unions right now are not the issue. Greed in general is.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

reply to neftv
The difference between Toyota and GM isn't the current workers, it's past workers who draw payments (pension and heathcare) while contributing zero to current production. GM has massive domestic LEGACY costs, they are paying for past workers whereas Toyota is a relatively new US factory presence in the scheme of things. In another 30 years, Toyota will be similarly hammered by US legacy costs just as they are getting hit with legacy costs in Japan.

reply to neftv
They can't help you because you weren't a friend of the local runner.

Don't feel to bad it happens to many , in a perfect world we are graded on job performance , in this world we are graded on how others feel about us and not always job performance.

Maybe you didn't kiss enough ass , I honestly don't know.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

reply to BosstonesOwn
Your examples show the unions are a huge part of the problem particularly in standing in the way of productivity.

But there are 99 problems ahead of it , you gotta take the heavy issues on right now , not take a weak issue like unions on.

If you take on the harder issues right now , it may eliminate the weaker issues. Once the bigger issues are dealt with you move to the smaller issues.

Right now productivity is not a concern , keeping these companies afloat seems to be the major one. Which to me is minor.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

And it would be easier to keep them "afloat" if they were permitted to keep the best workers and lose the worst.

reply to Z80

»www.businessweek.com/magazine/co···ed_ssi_5

Detroit has or is currently gutting it's compensation system while Toyota's gets worse (financially speaking). Again, I'm not speaking of the past, I'm speaking of the future where there is going to be parity in labor costs between US automakers and foreign automakers assembling cars in the US and it has always been legacy costs, not hourly wages that hurt the big 3.

The days of a $1.5K difference in labor costs per car are numbered. Toyota can try and cut costs, but they are already pretty lean.

reply to Z80
I totally agree , but I believe in responsibility , if they dump good workers , then the manages should be held accountable for what happens.

Which is not what is happening in america today.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

The problem is the union prevents them from choosing between good and bad workers even if Verizon management had enough brain cells to determine which were good or bad or even cared in the first place.

reply to Z80

Quality be damned; the union motto. Last hired first fired regardless of job performance is a great way to protect the lazy and incompetent while ignoring any new hire who is motivated and busts ass.

Labor is subject to market forces as well and a worker is only worth what it costs to replace them, nothing more. The union should do their part to insure that their membership is worth a bundle by insisting on excellent job performance. If the union was synonymous with top quality motivated employees instead of lazy shovel leaners, they could get their membership more $$$ and they would have earned every penny.

As it stands now, hard work counts for nothing so why do it?

You're not getting it. You can be fired for performance irregardless of seniority, but they will have to at least prove it, can't just say "you're fired because I say so."

If you don't work hard here you will have a rough time as your slacking falls on other people to pickup and they WILL call you out for it and then undermine you.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

reply to Z80
You can thank congress for trying to push through a 10 billion dollar gift to the UAW in the health care bill. I guess the govt just wants to help with these legacy costs.

reply to KrK
You're not getting it. That isn't what happened here so sayith the union spokesperson.

quote:

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Hetrick said the FIOS technicians had plenty of work to do but were laid off because they had less seniority than other union members.

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If management does their job the the senior employee will not be an idiot. Sure in some cases the better employee loses a job but in a lot of cases it is the management that caused the problem in the first place but they keep their jobs.
I have never thought of the banks and Wall Street as being a bastion of union workers but it was the highest paid managers that brought the economy to its knees. Most of the crowd that made the decisions kept their jobs and got bonuses while the employees that answered the phones and did their jobs were sent packing. People were not kept by their ability but by what department or division they were in.
So your it is the unions fault is just wrong.

Again, we aren't talking about Wall St. We are talking about these particular people who were laid off because they did not have proper seniority and that is what is wrong. No one should be laid off or kept because of seniority, union or non-union.