Verizon Continues Layoffs > Unions

reply to Z80

Re: Unions

Your examples show the unions are a huge part of the problem particularly in standing in the way of productivity.

But there are 99 problems ahead of it , you gotta take the heavy issues on right now , not take a weak issue like unions on.

If you take on the harder issues right now , it may eliminate the weaker issues. Once the bigger issues are dealt with you move to the smaller issues.

Right now productivity is not a concern , keeping these companies afloat seems to be the major one. Which to me is minor.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

And it would be easier to keep them "afloat" if they were permitted to keep the best workers and lose the worst.

I totally agree , but I believe in responsibility , if they dump good workers , then the manages should be held accountable for what happens.

Which is not what is happening in america today.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

The problem is the union prevents them from choosing between good and bad workers even if Verizon management had enough brain cells to determine which were good or bad or even cared in the first place.

reply to Z80

Quality be damned; the union motto. Last hired first fired regardless of job performance is a great way to protect the lazy and incompetent while ignoring any new hire who is motivated and busts ass.

Labor is subject to market forces as well and a worker is only worth what it costs to replace them, nothing more. The union should do their part to insure that their membership is worth a bundle by insisting on excellent job performance. If the union was synonymous with top quality motivated employees instead of lazy shovel leaners, they could get their membership more $$$ and they would have earned every penny.

As it stands now, hard work counts for nothing so why do it?

You're not getting it. You can be fired for performance irregardless of seniority, but they will have to at least prove it, can't just say "you're fired because I say so."

If you don't work hard here you will have a rough time as your slacking falls on other people to pickup and they WILL call you out for it and then undermine you.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

You're not getting it. That isn't what happened here so sayith the union spokesperson.

quote:

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Hetrick said the FIOS technicians had plenty of work to do but were laid off because they had less seniority than other union members.

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If management does their job the the senior employee will not be an idiot. Sure in some cases the better employee loses a job but in a lot of cases it is the management that caused the problem in the first place but they keep their jobs.
I have never thought of the banks and Wall Street as being a bastion of union workers but it was the highest paid managers that brought the economy to its knees. Most of the crowd that made the decisions kept their jobs and got bonuses while the employees that answered the phones and did their jobs were sent packing. People were not kept by their ability but by what department or division they were in.
So your it is the unions fault is just wrong.

Again, we aren't talking about Wall St. We are talking about these particular people who were laid off because they did not have proper seniority and that is what is wrong. No one should be laid off or kept because of seniority, union or non-union.

Except half of your posts in this thread were anti-union rants, completely oblivious to reality or how unions actually work. You make ridiculous assumptions about the function of unions and what caused our economy to fall into a recession in the first place. It`s stupid and to be honest disrespectful, especially considering the reason you`re not working 12 hours a day, 7 days a week is because unions exist.

reply to Z80
What he's really saying is there was plenty of work to do but Verizon decided to lay people off anyway, so the people with the least seniority got the shaft. Not that the people who stayed were lazy suck ups. Basically what he said is the problem was Verizon's decision to lay off people period.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

reply to KrK

I see what you're getting at. Are there ways to game the system? Yeah... but the door swings both ways. I think we all can generally tell the difference between good working conditions and unsafe ones.... and who is a good worker and who isn't. Also don't blame the rank and file (union or not) for the problems management creates--- like who they choose to promote. Sheesh, but that's a whole other topic.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

reply to sonicmerlin
Except you read only what you choose to read. Stop defending the unions no matter what they do and get some objectivity. There is no excuse for using seniority to select which guys and gals get canned.

We all know all too well how unions actually work. Meanwhile you can skip the attempt at derailing the thread into another political pissing contest. We all know your anti-capitialist positions and they are irrelevant to this discussion of seniority playing a role in layoffs.

Enjoy ignore.

reply to Z80
New workers are obligated to work to retain their positions. Don't forget that they are basically in a trial period where they can be dismissed easily for any reason that the employer dreams up. Todays lazy unionized yob was once yesterday new productive worker.

reply to Z80
i wonder how many kiss ass workers would keep their jobs even though they have their nose up their bosses ass while getting preferential work.it has always been my expierence that the guy who works the hardest gets screwed while the guy who looks like he works but instead kisses his bosses ass & gets taken care of is the SUPERSTAR.

reply to Z80
Unions do? Your kidding right?
It's corporate policies made up by the managers, and directors of these that keeps certain unions from being more productive...More because these policies(that have nothing to do with the job at hand) have to be followed or the members will get into trouble...