Tripped Main Breaker in Home Repair & Improvement http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23188158 en Wed, 10 Feb 2010 06:55:21 EDT Wed, 10 Feb 2010 06:55:21 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23768268 nunya :
said by austinmv See Profile :

me = Electrician. seen this scenario time and time again. check your wire size coming into the house, is it aluminum or copper. if you are lucky it will pull 200 amps and all u need to do is install new main breaker *100 smackers or so* worse case, u need a new service entrance cable ect. for 200 amps. your first post is correct, everything just happen to kick on at the same time and 100 amps is not enough. hope this helps. =)
Some bad information there. It's almost *never* as simple as a breaker change.
Fortunately it sounds like the OP had everything taken care of properly. Unfortunately, he got stuck with half the bill.
--
Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America.
Nancy Pelosi - House Minority Leader 2010
Harry Reid - Senate Minority Leader 2010]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23768268 Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:50:26 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23767842 whizkid3 :
said by austinmv See Profile :

everything just happen to kick on at the same time and 100 amps is not enough.
Please go back and review my first post, where I described the following in detail...if its working properly, a thermal-magnetic main circuit breaker (which is what we have here) is not going to trip on the inrush from a frigerator, furnace, etc., motor loads in the average residence. (Or even in a McMansion for that matter.) It would require an inrush of 1000Amps or more for it to trip. That's just the way they work. And if the inrush was in-fact tripping the 100A breaker, it would very easily trip the 200A breaker as well. (Glad to see its resolved, by the way.)

Assuming a very liberal 7x for inrush, lets say that's 100A for two fridges, 200A for two furnace blowers, and 250A for two air-conditioners, all starting at the exact same time, with a base load of 100A - that gives you an instantaneous inrush of about 650 Amps. Still not enough to trip the 100A main breaker on the instantaneous magnetic portion of its trip curve. And that scenario is plainly ridiculous.

It was either a short-circuit (in which case the problem would have still been happening), or much more likely, the breaker was overloaded (perhaps on one leg). Or, like cowboyro says, it could have been a bad main breaker. Given that one furnace with a 60A breaker was likely drawing more than half of the rated capacity of the main breaker, there is no doubt in my mind that the breaker was overloaded at times (along with the service wiring). Get an amprobe and measure it - we'd love to find out.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23767842 Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:55:18 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23766357 austinmv : me = Electrician. seen this scenario time and time again. check your wire size coming into the house, is it aluminum or copper. if you are lucky it will pull 200 amps and all u need to do is install new main breaker *100 smackers or so* worse case, u need a new service entrance cable ect. for 200 amps. your first post is correct, everything just happen to kick on at the same time and 100 amps is not enough. hope this helps. =)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23766357 Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:25:18 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23766189 Msradell :
said by EEL BUZZ :

Depending on the square foot of your dwelling, Distance and amps are a key factor when installing a new service;
Example; A 200 amp service is good up to approximately 2500 - 3000 sq ft home

That depends a lot on your source of heat. If you are using something other than electricity for heat and hot water you can usually go a lot bigger before you have to upgrade over 200 amps. Today's high efficiency air conditioning units have made a big difference.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23766189 Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:40:29 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23766123 anon : Depending on the square foot of your dwelling, Distance and amps are a key factor when installing a new service;
Example; A 200 amp service is good up to approximately 2500 - 3000 sq ft home]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23766123 Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:24:54 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23754037 Bobcat : "Watch out! It's quite possible that some of my best mistakes haven't yet been made." -- Ashleigh Brilliant]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23754037 Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:48:17 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23753920 UHF :
said by scooper See Profile :

said by slcpd6469 See Profile :

I know I made lots of mistakes with this purchase but it was my 1st. I have definitely learned a lot from it.
There isn't ANYONE who was a first time buyer who didn't make some mistakes along the way :D . Live and learn, and don't make the same mistakes next time (you'll probably make another set of mistakes :D ).
I don't think I made any mistakes the first time. The second time is the one that bit me in the ass!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23753920 Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:31:37 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23753420 scooper :
said by slcpd6469 See Profile :

I know I made lots of mistakes with this purchase but it was my 1st. I have definitely learned a lot from it.
There isn't ANYONE who was a first time buyer who didn't make some mistakes along the way :D . Live and learn, and don't make the same mistakes next time (you'll probably make another set of mistakes :D ).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23753420 Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:12:24 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23753335 slcpd6469 : Yes I did show the contract to the judge. The seller was also the selling agent so I guess it was kind of FSBO. I didn't have a lawyer so I just had to pay for court costs which were also included in the judgement. I'll admit I was convinced by some family members and my agent not to get an inspection. I know very bad idea and it wont happen again. We did walk through after the unit was installed and it seemed to work then but I don't remember if heat was tested since it was around 75 that day. I know I made lots of mistakes with this purchase but it was my 1st. I have definitely learned a lot from it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23753335 Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:53:51 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23753258 Vamp9190 :
said by slcpd6469 See Profile :

I just had 2 companies do estimates today for a service upgrade. My real estate agent is going to fight it out with the seller because the 2nd furnace was supposed to be installed and working according to my contract. Hopefully I'll have it all done in the next few days.
If this was written into the contract/ sales paperwork....did you show that to the judge? That proof should have been enough for him to rule in your favor. But like you said at least you got 50%. Interesting that your real estate agent could not work it out with the seller (did the seller also have an agent?) and the whole thing had to go to court.....did you have to pay for a lawyer? If so, how much?

Just curious, usually when things like that are written in, the seller does the upgrades/fixes & then you have a final inspection of the house (by a professional, usually a company that the real estate agent as worked with a lot before), so that way you are sure that everything is done BEFORE you sign the final papers & actually 'Buy' the place. Was this a different arrangement?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23753258 Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:40:28 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23753186 UHF : I suppose it could be argued that if the seller had upgraded the service at the time the furnace was installed he would have negotiated a higher selling price for the house to recoup some of the expense. In that case, 50% is probably reasonable, but then when you figure in all the BS and legal expenses you had to go through because he cut corners, it's not as fair. But as you say, it's better than nothing. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23753186 Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:27:46 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23752558 slcpd6469 : Basically I gave my side of the story and showed the judge a letter from my electrician saying that I needed 200amp service. I also told the judge the guy wouldn't return my calls until after I had it fixed. The seller was arguing that the main breaker was bad and I didn't need the upgrade because this device used x amps and this used y amps blah blah. The judge kind of told him that an electric furnace on 100amp service with the rest of the house was pushing it but he didn't feel that the seller should be stuck with the entire cost. I'm not sure why he thought that way other than we both had conflicting stories about who called who and when (no documentation). I'm just happy I got something out of him. The best part was when the judge made his decision the seller made a loud sigh and shuck his head so I knew he was pissed.

On another note the downstairs furnace crapped out about 2 weeks ago. So needless to say it took a lot not to explode on him.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23752558 Thu, 04 Feb 2010 08:55:00 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23752302 nunya : Can you fill us in on what went down?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23752302 Thu, 04 Feb 2010 08:03:21 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23752297 slcpd6469 : So I finally had my day in court yesterday. The judge only gave me half but its better then nothing. Big lesson learned is document everything even if it seems little.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23752297 Thu, 04 Feb 2010 08:01:00 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23382517 Killa200 : Got any pictures of the new work? Always love to see new work that has been done in regards to electric service.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23382517 Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:00:02 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23382147 slcpd6469 : The upgrade was completed Friday and all is well. I ran the 2nd furnace all weekend without any problems. Thanks for everyone's input.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23382147 Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:06:25 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23320480 nunya : Go with the company that wants to do it right. Both of those prices are really good for this area. Make sure they get a permit. Otherwise, you aren't really getting a service upgrade (Ameren HAS to be involved, and won't do anything without permit).

There's a lot of "meter poppers" operating in the St. Louis area. They give a low bid and slap in a new 200A panel while not actually upgrading the service. What little work they do is usually shoddy. Instead of getting a permit and calling Ameren, they pop the meter and connect it up with jumper wires before control at Ameren dispatches on the outage. Ameren can "see" when the smart meters go offline and treat it as an outage.
--
Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America.
Nancy Pelosi - House Minority Leader 2010
Harry Reid - Senate Minority Leader 2010]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23320480 Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:22:44 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23318871 slcpd6469 : One company wants $1250 for just the box and the other wants $1300 to replace the box and relocate the meter. The service line is too close to the house and needs to be moved.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23318871 Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:37:35 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23317289 nunya : How much?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23317289 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:04:43 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23317207 slcpd6469 : I just had 2 companies do estimates today for a service upgrade. My real estate agent is going to fight it out with the seller because the 2nd furnace was supposed to be installed and working according to my contract. Hopefully I'll have it all done in the next few days.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23317207 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:50:57 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23316493 scooper : And the verdict is ?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23316493 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:39:22 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304648 KrK :
said by slcpd6469 See Profile :

It is a electroic thermostat. Its set to let the temp get down to 67 overnight then warm up to 72 starting at 5:15. The multistage element makes sense since it only trips in the morning. I dont know if this is the case as the unit was installed before I moved in. I will have to find a model number and research it. I am keeping the unit off until a professional can look at it.
Bingo. Cause/symptoms have been nailed.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304648 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:43:27 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304645 KrK : Post deleted as was rendered moot. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304645 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:42:20 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23301940 cowboyro : It can be as simple as a bad breaker that trips below the rated ampacity. If the electrician tries to sell you a service upgrade ask him to first replace the breaker and measure the current that the house actually draws with full load for furnace.
If you have a heat pump make sure you wait few minutes from the last start, most systems have a built-in protection to not allow the compressor to start again sooner than N minutes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23301940 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 12:54:21 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23300211 nunya : I'll bet you anything they try to disconnect a coil bank and run.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23300211 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 05:56:51 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23299169 jack b : Leave it at one temperature and don't use a night set-back until it gets checked out. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23299169 Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:56:51 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23299146 slcpd6469 : No updates yet. I have an electrician coming this Monday. I've been able to do with out the unit for awhile but a sudden drop in temps in making me wish I hadn't waited.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23299146 Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:52:57 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23293147 scooper : Any news ?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23293147 Wed, 04 Nov 2009 20:32:13 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23216872 slcpd6469 : I dont know for sure if it has another breaker. The only reason I say it has a 60 amp is that on the unit itself there is a 60 amp breaker and then in the breaker box is a new 60 amp breaker. I talked with the seller of the house and he is going to send the installer over in the next few days to see whats going on.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23216872 Wed, 21 Oct 2009 08:10:23 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23215507 nunya : Are you sure the furnace doesn't also have another 30 amp or 60 amp breaker? Most of the electric furnaces I've met around here are 90 amp or 120 amp.
Also, some people have a much larger "idle" load than they realize. I've found most residential homes in the 1000-2000 sf range have an idle load between 20 and 40 amps. This is with no A/C, range, heat, dryer, or other heavy loads on line.
--
Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23215507 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:51:56 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23214567 scooper :
said by mattmag See Profile :

said by scooper See Profile :

I'm saying we don't know what is in his circuit breaker panel.
There is either something else on that the OP is missing, or as a more significant issue, the furnace is in fact exceeding the rating of the 60 amp breaker which would indicate it is faulty, or even not connected at all, which is why an electrician needs to find out what the actual problem is.
On that I completely agree.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23214567 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:45:09 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23214484 mattmag :
said by scooper See Profile :

I'm saying we don't know what is in his circuit breaker panel.
Again, it makes no difference. We know there is a 100 amp main, and a 60 amp on the furnace. That means if the furnace is to be blamed for the main tripping, then the load of the furnace has to be below the trip rating of the 60 amp breaker, and its load is additive to the remaining load in the house which is causing the trip rating of the 100 amp main to be exceeded.

However, he provided the other items that are drawing current at the time the trip occurred, and they are not enough to provide the additional current load over the furnace load to make the main trip.

There is either something else on that the OP is missing, or as a more significant issue, the furnace is in fact exceeding the rating of the 60 amp breaker which would indicate it is faulty, or even not connected at all, which is why an electrician needs to find out what the actual problem is.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23214484 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:25:13 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23214445 scooper : I'm saying we don't know what is in his circuit breaker panel.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23214445 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:15:54 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23214437 mattmag :
said by scooper See Profile :

I think they said the furnace had it's own 60 AMP breaker. The OP never said what size breaker the furnace is being fed from.
If the furnace has a 60 amp breaker, then that is the current-limiting device for the furnace, unless for some odd reason it is fed by a *smaller* rated breaker which would make his scenario even MORE unlikely. I don't understand your point I guess?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23214437 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:14:38 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23214401 scooper : I think they said the furnace had it's own 60 AMP breaker. The OP never said what size breaker the furnace is being fed from.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23214401 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:07:38 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23214369 mattmag :
There is still something amiss, since you noted the furnace is supplied via a 60-Amp breaker. If the furnace is indeed the problem, you should be seeing a trip at that point, not the main, if what you have noted to be the associated load at that time of the day is correct.

The furnace load has to be under the trip-point of the 60-Amp breaker, (unless it is faulty) and I seriously doubt you have another 40-50 amps of draw from a fridge and the few other things that were on. Not even close...

Get an electrician in there and find out for sure, because I still don't see why you are tripping a 100 amp main in this scenario.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23214369 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:00:46 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23212269 scooper :
said by slcpd6469 See Profile :

It is a electroic thermostat. Its set to let the temp get down to 67 overnight then warm up to 72 starting at 5:15. The multistage element makes sense since it only trips in the morning. I dont know if this is the case as the unit was installed before I moved in. I will have to find a model number and research it. I am keeping the unit off until a professional can look at it.
Bingo - our smoking gun !

Apparently, it's fine as long as you aren't asking for full power (the minor through the day stuff) - it's that "5 degree warmup at 0515" that pulls enough power that it trips the main breaker.

Safest thing to do is indeed not use the electric furnace until the electrician has fixed the issue. If you aren't asking for full power (i.e. set it and leave it - don't use the setback / warmup feature of the thermostat) - you can "probably" get by for awhile (until it gets colder and the furnaces are being used more). But this really needs to be looked at and corrected ASAP.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23212269 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:48:10 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23211406 slcpd6469 : I don't have anything set to turn on besides the furnace in question.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23211406 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:00:13 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23211393 slcpd6469 : It is a electroic thermostat. Its set to let the temp get down to 67 overnight then warm up to 72 starting at 5:15. The multistage element makes sense since it only trips in the morning. I dont know if this is the case as the unit was installed before I moved in. I will have to find a model number and research it. I am keeping the unit off until a professional can look at it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23211393 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 08:58:41 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23209119 JimmySask : If it is an electronic thermostat, is it set to keep the house at a cooler temperature overnight? If so, what time is it set to begin warming the house again?
--
I do whatever my Rice Krispies tell me too....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23209119 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:05:20 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23209048 scooper :
said by jack b See Profile :

Do you have a setback thermostat for this electric furnace?
Ill bet it could be the furnace has a multi-stage heater element and comes on at full power if the temperature is more than a few degrees lower than the set-point, then it continues to run on a reduced input power once the room temperature is closer to the set-point and while maintaining a fixed temperature.
Still needs a qualified electrician have a look. The OP should not be popping the main breaker on a regular basis.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23209048 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 18:51:51 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23208906 jack b : Do you have a setback thermostat for this electric furnace?
Ill bet it could be the furnace has a multi-stage heater element and comes on at full power if the temperature is more than a few degrees lower than the set-point, then it continues to run on a reduced input power once the room temperature is closer to the set-point and while maintaining a fixed temperature.
--
~Help Find a Cure for Cancer~
~Proud Member of Team Discovery ~]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23208906 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 18:18:32 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23208533 scooper : Is it possible someone is firing up a coffee maker at 0515 AM ? Or other "small electric appliances" (toaster, microwave, oven / stove) ?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23208533 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:07:41 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23208294 scooper : You still need to have an electrician look at this anyway. Main Breakers tripping off at a set time is not good either. Like I said - I'd power off the electric furnace until you get a clean bill of health after an electrician inspects.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23208294 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 16:23:57 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23206597 slcpd6469 : I forgot to add this, the elec furnace runs all day and night just fine. The only time it will trip is at 5:15am when overall usage should be lower. I have not had it trip say mid day when multiple tvs are on along with lights, washing machine and every other everyday item.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23206597 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:30:13 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23206524 cowspotter : Didn't you say that the downstairs (that was off last night) was gas and the upstairs is electric? If so, then you leaving the gas furnace off didn't really do much to change your electricity demand. The electric heat was still on.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23206524 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:17:17 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23206516 scooper : Yep - sounds like you unwittingly did another test, and proved again that you need a service upgrade.

BTW - until said service upgrade is complete - I'd secure the electric hog and only run the downstairs furnace.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23206516 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:16:20 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23206447 slcpd6469 : I know I need a service upgrade but this morning I unknowingly performed a test. Last night I had turned the downstairs furnace off and forgot to turn it back on. This morning at 5:15 when the upstairs unit kicked on the main tripped. The only items on at the time were 1 fridge, 1 lcd tv, 1 pc, 1 cfl bulb and 2 dtv stbs. With this test does it still sound like too much draw or that something is wrong with the upstairs furnace? The only times it has tripped are at 5:15 in the morning when the upstairs unit starts. BTW the electrician should be calling today as I realize this is not a diy job.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23206447 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:04:06 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23196658 jack b : As already identified, the electric service entrance is likely inadequate at this stage of the game. An ammeter will help to tell you if it's an overload or faulty main causing the trip.

It could be the load is unbalanced? One leg probably has a higher load and operates near the main's limit where it can heat up enough to trip over time. To buy some time, maybe you could swap some circuits around to balance things a little better until you can replace the panel.
--
~Help Find a Cure for Cancer~
~Proud Member of Team Discovery ~]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23196658 Fri, 16 Oct 2009 19:46:53 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23195969 scooper : I suppose there is one way you could put it off - just don't use the electric furnace. But whizkid has given you the best advice so far.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23195969 Fri, 16 Oct 2009 17:13:57 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23195166 slcpd6469 : I looked at the box and its not a Zinsco but I don't remember the name. I have a call into an electrician so hopefully he can point me in the right direction. I knew at some point I was going to need the upgrade but I was hoping to hold off til early next year.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23195166 Fri, 16 Oct 2009 14:58:20 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23192997 whizkid3 : The inrush from any devices in a house is not going to be the cause of a breaker trip. Inrush, which lasts less than one second does not trip thermal-magnetic breakers like the one you have. To boot, aside from the fan motor, your electric furnace shouldn't have any inrush (unless its an arc-furnace - unlikely). Thermal-magnetic breakers trip for two reasons - short circuit or overload.

Many people question whether they need to upgrade their service. My answer always is, has your main breaker been tripping. If not, then typically one doesn't need to upgrade their service. In your case, your main breaker tripped for one reason - overload.

Unless you have very little else in the way of electric appliances in your home, a 100A service is inadequate for the electric furnace. (Check the ratings - 60A is the size of the main breaker, but not the sustained current draw of the furnace.) There is no doubt that you need a service upgrade to handle your electric use with the electric furnace. Whether that upgrade is to a 150A or 200A service can only be determined via proper demand load calculations, which should be done by a qualified electrician or engineer.

My guess is that it was a home improvement contractor or HVAC contractor that installed the furnace. Every residential electrician I know (except the few that post here) would be jumping at the chance to sell you a service upgrade, whether or not you needed it. (And you do need it.)

One thing you should also know, is that the main breaker in your home is only rated for 80% (80A) of continuous load, although it will not trip until 100A of load is exceeded, and then only trip on a 'pro-rated' basis. In other words, it will trip a lot faster at 120A of load, then it will at 100A of load. Get some proper calculations done. Chances are great you need to spend a 'few' bucks for the service upgrade.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23192997 Fri, 16 Oct 2009 08:47:07 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23190535 scooper : You need to do the service upgrade to 200 AMPs NOW if you plan on using that furnace. And even then - plan on thermostat on 60 and/or large electric bill. Said service upgrade is NOT a DIY job unless you are a qualified pro.

It would have been better to upgrade the gas furnace to handle everything, but that's in the past now. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23190535 Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:11:31 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23188588 nunya : Electric furnace + 100 Amp service usually = Bad.
Most likely the service is overloaded and the breaker is just doing it's job.
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Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23188588 Thu, 15 Oct 2009 13:06:52 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23188473 mattmag :

Please post pictures if possible of the breaker panel. I suspect it may be brand or model that has been known to have issues, and the pros here can look and see if it is. Zinsco is one notoriously bad panel, and the one I used to have would trip the main due to excessive resistance and heat build-up where the main attaches to the panel.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23188473 Thu, 15 Oct 2009 12:51:26 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23188441 slcpd6469 : The breaker is in a locked basement. The new furnace has a 60 amp breaker built into itself. None of the breakers in the box are labeled so I didn't know what size it is in there. I'll have to see if there are any stickers on the unit for power requirements. I'll also try and recreate it tonight. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23188441 Thu, 15 Oct 2009 12:46:40 EDT Re: Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23188211 dark_star : Is the breaker box inside or outside? If it is outside and unlocked, perhaps it was turned off by a prankster.

How many amps does the new electric furnace draw?

You could also try recreating the circumstances that may have resulted in the breakers tripping. Let the house get cool. Then turn on every small item that was on at the time it tripped plus a few more. Then turn the thermostats up on both furnaces simultaneously.

The results should rule out or confirm the possibility that your 100 amp service is not adequate to start both furnaces at the same time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23188211 Thu, 15 Oct 2009 12:08:35 EDT Tripped Main Breaker http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23188158 slcpd6469 : I woke up this morning to my UPSs screaming that the power was out. I looked at my neighbors, they all had power. I checked the breaker box and the only breaker that was tripped was the 100 amp main. Before I reset it I checked for water around the box(off and on rain for 3 days or so) and also checked the meter and drop. I didn't see anything unusual so I turned it on and everything seems fine. The only thing I can think of is both furnaces and fridge kicked on at the same time. Other than that I'm stumped. Anyone have any other ideas as to what happened.

Background:
I just purchased this house 2 weeks ago and have had no electric issues until now. This is a 105 yr old house but all wiring,breaker box and meter have been upgraded. I have 1 elec furnace(2 weeks old) for upstairs and gas(unknown age) for downstairs. The only other items on were a fridge, small lcd tv, computer and a few other small devices. I'm thinking before summer comes I'll have to upgrade to 200amp service so I can run 2 ac units, fridge and everthing else.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23188158 Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:57:54 EDT