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Another new build..need help »
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Somnambul33t
L33t.
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Mullica Hill, NJ
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reply to rfhar
Re: I5 Vs I7 for new computer.

the premium for the i5 over core 2 quad is negligible. also, the i7 and i5 are different sockets and will not fit in the same motherboards. the i7 uses x58 chipset while i5 uses P55. x58 is much more expensive due to some additional hardware and licensing.

i think it was anandtech that did a nice benchmark of i7-920 vs i7-870 vs i5-750. also theres another recent article directly comparing the benefit of hyperthreading. their conclusion was HT added 10-12% speed on average over intensive applications like gaming and media production.

the i5 does not have HT, HOWEVER, it does have turbo. Turbo is a new Core i feature that turns off unused CPU cores and overclocks the taxed ones to increase performance on minimallythreaded apps. the i5 is very close to the speed of the i7-860, both of which are often faster than the 920.

i think it really comes down to how serious, and how much money youre willing to spend, you are about Folding. you could add a newer graphics card to your current system and out-Fold a new i7 system without gfx card, but it wouldnt be very practical or give you the best overall computer experience.
--
Somnambulator - t3h 5133pw41k3r


The Stolen Eye TF2 Server
~Choosy moms choose Jif~


pnjunction
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3 edits
reply to rfhar
That's about $1200 worth of parts according to Newegg prices, I guess $1742 isn't that bad to have it all assembled with 1 yr part and labour warranty (it's alot to those of us that would happily go elbow-deep into the parts and put them together! :P ).

I'm with the asdfdfdfdfdf on the 9800GT, more processor cores for just about the same money will get more folding done if that is important to you. You might even consider a GTS 250, for a bit more money you get even more power with about the same power consumption as the 9800gt in a next-gen card.

I don't think the budget is that excessive, your needs are modest but you say you only buy every 5-6 years so you don't want to go cheap and have it struggling in 3-4 years.

That said I think you could consider an i5 750 and 4 gigs of RAM instead of 8 that would shave about $250 off of that price. I doubt that setup would slow down for basic for at least 4 years, and you could always take that $250 and upgrade it to 8 gigs and probably a better processor than the current i7 in a couple of years.

Edit: I agree with Somnambul33t, it really depends how serious you are about folding. If not too serious, get i5 750 and 9800gt. If willing to spend the extra $150, get i7 860 and GTS 250. You don't need this power for anything else really.


Somnambul33t
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i agree with the above as well but i need to call out nvidia on one thing mentioned...the GTS250 is not a newer card than the 9800GT. it is a little faster, but not by too much. GTS250 is a renamed 9800GTX+. nvidia's gone through a few naming schemas in the last few years and it only confuses people thinking they might be getting significantly faster cards


pnjunction
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said by Somnambul33t See Profile :

i agree with the above as well but i need to call out nvidia on one thing mentioned...the GTS250 is not a newer card than the 9800GT. it is a little faster, but not by too much. GTS250 is a renamed 9800GTX+. nvidia's gone through a few naming schemas in the last few years and it only confuses people thinking they might be getting significantly faster cards
Interesting, you're right it is G92-based. Still power consumption is reduced compared to the 9800gtx by 35W Link, apparently because of improvements in the board design(?). For the money I would say to make the jump to a GTX 260 but his vendor doesn't have it.


Somnambul33t
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said by pnjunction See Profile :

said by Somnambul33t See Profile :

i agree with the above as well but i need to call out nvidia on one thing mentioned...the GTS250 is not a newer card than the 9800GT. it is a little faster, but not by too much. GTS250 is a renamed 9800GTX+. nvidia's gone through a few naming schemas in the last few years and it only confuses people thinking they might be getting significantly faster cards
Interesting, you're right it is G92-based. Still power consumption is reduced compared to the 9800gtx by 35W Link, apparently because of improvements in the board design(?). For the money I would say to make the jump to a GTX 260 but his vendor doesn't have it.
the 9800GTX+ had a die shrink which allowed for lower power consumption and high clock speeds. thats why you see the discrepancy, you werent looking at the revised 9800gtx
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Somnambulator - t3h 5133pw41k3r


The Stolen Eye TF2 Server
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pnjunction
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said by Somnambul33t See Profile :

said by pnjunction See Profile :

Interesting, you're right it is G92-based. Still power consumption is reduced compared to the 9800gtx by 35W Link, apparently because of improvements in the board design(?). For the money I would say to make the jump to a GTX 260 but his vendor doesn't have it.
the 9800GTX+ had a die shrink which allowed for lower power consumption and high clock speeds. thats why you see the discrepancy, you werent looking at the revised 9800gtx
They're looking at the revised GTX+ in the article I linked. In that and another article I saw they chalk it up to improvements in the board design. I'd be interested to know the specific reason, my best guess is the signal traces for the memory are shorter requiring less power to drive.


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY

reply to rfhar
I don’t wan to complicate the decision making process but I would like to make one small point.

Given the recent findings of extreme overclocking on the LGA1156 platform found here:

P55 Extreme Overclockers: Check your sockets!

and other places,…

One might assume that this is a problem only for those with the intention of run their hardware out of spec. That’s very well might be the case and typically may be of no real concern for the average user. However, I cant help but wonder what will happen to Foxconn LGA1156 sockets over time even if they are not stressed with an OC.

If there are some issues of tolerance with Foxconn LGA1156 sockets with respect to LOTES / Tyco AMP LGA1156 sockets I’d be more concerned with simple things like a processor upgrade or remounting the CPU on a Foxconn LGA1156 socket. Poor contact with the pads on the CPU isn’t a small thing.

So I guess what I am saying is that if I were going with an LGA1156 motherboard today I would proactively find a motherboard with LOTES / Tyco AMP LGA1156 socket and avoid motherboards with Foxconn LGA1156. I would do this even if I had no intention of the slightest OC.

I’m not trying to be an alarmist here I’m just saying that LOTES / Tyco AMP LGA1156 seems to be a superior quality part.

Bandito

join:2003-01-23
·Shaw

reply to Somnambul33t
said by Somnambul33t See Profile :

the premium for the i5 over core 2 quad is negligible. also, the i7 and i5 are different sockets and will not fit in the same motherboards. the i7 uses x58 chipset while i5 uses P55. x58 is much more expensive due to some additional hardware and licensing.

i think it was anandtech that did a nice benchmark of i7-920 vs i7-870 vs i5-750. also theres another recent article directly comparing the benefit of hyperthreading. their conclusion was HT added 10-12% speed on average over intensive applications like gaming and media production.

the i5 does not have HT, HOWEVER, it does have turbo. Turbo is a new Core i feature that turns off unused CPU cores and overclocks the taxed ones to increase performance on minimallythreaded apps. the i5 is very close to the speed of the i7-860, both of which are often faster than the 920.

i think it really comes down to how serious, and how much money youre willing to spend, you are about Folding. you could add a newer graphics card to your current system and out-Fold a new i7 system without gfx card, but it wouldnt be very practical or give you the best overall computer experience.
In my neck of the woods, the i7 860 itself is a bit more expensive than the i5 750 and i7 920; however, the savings seem to be with the mobo combo with an i7 860 configuration. This is why I am heavily leaning toward the i7 860 and because windows 7 is optimized for hyperthreading. All our apps are running on Windows 7 so to me it would make sense to go with a cpu that has HT.


pnjunction
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join:2008-01-24
Toronto, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..

Another thing to consider between the 1156 i7 860 and 1366 i7 920 is the power consumption.

Even if the initial cost is about the same, the extra 30-50 watts that the 920 system uses up will add up over time. I think there's less difference if you overclock because then you throw the 95W TDP of the 1156 chips (vs 130W for 1366) out the window, apparently they can get up to 150-160 W when OC'd (and there is the potential for burnt pins/sockets as somebody else mentioned!).

A side note: As an overclocker, this whole socket problem has me glad that I usually wait 3-4 months into any product cycle for any glitches to be exposed and fixed. You can avoid so many problems this way, the firmware bug with the 7200.11 Seagate drives comes to mind. In the end those are good drives and these are good chips, just have to iron the bugs out.


rfhar
The World Sport, Played In Every Country
Premium
join:2001-03-26
Buicktown,Mi
clubs:
reply to rfhar
I want to thank everyone for your input. It has been a long time since have bought a computer and I have learned a lot from you.


asdfdfdfdfdf

@Level3.net
Let us know how it turns out, what you decided, and whether you are satisfied with the results.


rfhar
The World Sport, Played In Every Country
Premium
join:2001-03-26
Buicktown,Mi
clubs:
reply to rfhar
Will do, but it will be a couple weeks.

Kiwi
Premium
join:2003-05-26
USA
Will be interesting.


rfhar
The World Sport, Played In Every Country
Premium
join:2001-03-26
Buicktown,Mi
clubs:
·Power-Net Internet..

reply to asdfdfdfdfdf
I have the new computer home and have been working with it a week now. It is as above. Although I did look at everyone's ideas I stayed with what they have in stock. I have two 500 gig HHD's in raid one. I love the case. I have never had a case that good before. And I love Windows 7 better everyday.

Thanks again for your input. It was an educational experience and a very helpful one.


usa2k
Please PRAY for Rebekah
Premium,MVM
join:2003-01-26
Canton, MI
clubs:
Was it an I7 or I5?


rfhar
The World Sport, Played In Every Country
Premium
join:2001-03-26
Buicktown,Mi
clubs:
i7


signmeuptoo
Folding and Crunching Not just Breakfast
Premium
join:2001-11-22
LOSTinSpace
clubs:
·Future Nine Corpor..
·AT&T Southeast

reply to srr2
said by srr2 See Profile :

If you don't mind a contrarian opinion -- IMO, you're excessively concerned with this distributed computing business. You're proposing to spend an extra $50 to $100 on a video card you don't need, and possibly even more on processor capacity similarly in excess. Then there's the matter of the electricity that you're going to burn by loading up something like a quad processor during periods where it would be otherwise in a greatly-reduced power state. That electricity is not inconsequential and not free. Taking my Q9550 system as an example, the difference between idle and all cores at 100% is nearly 60W. Do you have any idea what 60W is going to cost you? Let's see....

60W @ 24/7 for a year = 526KWH in a year. I don't know what electric rates are in MI, but let's assume about $0.13/KWH, so that electricity is costing you slightly more than $68/year.

You're looking at spending maybe $100 or more non-recurring and nearly $70/year recurring expense. You would be doing them a much greater favor sending them a check! They could use the money directly to buy some supercomputer time that's 1000X more cost-effective (flops/$ I mean) than wasting resources on these so-called "free" small-computer clock cycles.

Distributed computing might have made some sense during the early days of the P4, but with the developments in power-reducing technology, it no longer does. Those "free" clock cycles now have real consequences, real costs, and real WASTE associated with them, regardless of the social nobility of the project. Send the organization a check. Really. They'll get FAR more from the money directly. Make your life easier by buying a nice ready-to-go Dell system that will sit there quietly, consuming only 30-40W while you're not using it.

On edit: Come to think of it, when you're not using it, put it on standby and send them a check for $120/year.
I disagree on the distributed computing.

For one, super computers and frame computers lend themselves to different tasks, and time on such systems isn't always easy to come by. I am not at liberty to discuss that issue very much except to say that unless the department gets permission to install heavy computer equipment, and unless they have the room and personnel to operate it, it is far better to do many of the tasks using distributed computing.

While I have met some Stanford people I did not like (at work), those running things and researching things at Standford, one of the world's leading science education facilities, well, the people there are very smart, smarter than many people here (especially me, heh) and they still promote the distributed computer and have gone so far as to work with video card manufacturers AND game console makers so that an increase in data is achieved.

srr2: Perhaps it isn't as important to you on a practical level, but to people like me, who have family with cancer (my little 2 year old nephew has a somewhat rare form of brain cancer and he is in a battle for his life) anything we can do we want to do. And for that matter, 70 bucks isn't much when it comes to the peace of mind we get from belonging and making a difference.

Labs just don't go out and buy super computers like candy, they need the space, hardware, woman/man-power, the electrical runs and more.

I am a little troubled that you would try and discourage us from doing what we believe in.

There are things I'd love to add, but I cannot. Places I've worked at in the past might have benefited from distributed computing, perhaps.

Please allow me to add: We are always welcoming new members to the cause in both Teams Discovery and Helix. It is usually very easy to set up and runs in the background. Help fight disease and cancer!
--
Happy Halloween/All Souls Day. Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Put that fancy computer to good use helping to find a cure, your mom will love you for it. »Team Helix »Team Discovery

Kiwi
Premium
join:2003-05-26
USA
·Comcast
·Aristotle Internet

reply to rfhar
said by rfhar See Profile :

i7
Hey, stop cheating

What exactly did you get?


rfhar
The World Sport, Played In Every Country
Premium
join:2001-03-26
Buicktown,Mi
clubs:
·Power-Net Internet..


1 edit
said by Kiwi See Profile :

said by rfhar See Profile :

i7
Hey, stop cheating

What exactly did you get?
The list above with two 500gigs HD's in raid 1.
--

edit•MB Intel DP55WG LG1156
•CPU Intel core i7 860
•4 ...DIMM DDR3 2GB 1600Mhz
•DVD 24X SATA DVDW
•VGA GeForce 9600GT 1024MB
•Win7 Home Prem 64 bit
•Pwr Antec 850W TP Quattro PS
•HD 2...500GB Seagate SATA
•Case Antec 900 N/Pwr
•Keyboard
•Mouse
•speaker Altex BXR1221
•1yr warranty parts & Labor
•$1742


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY

Nice!!!

Similar to what I recently built not too long ago:

Intel Core i7 860
ASUS P7P55D Pro P55
eVGA 8800GT 512MB
1 TB WD Black Caviar
4GB DDR3 RAM
Sony DRU-530A
CaseTek Server Case
Corsair 750TX 750W PSU
Windows 7 Ultimate RTM 64bit

The video card was on the shelf unused for a while but I'll will upgrade it later to an HD 5870 or GT300. I ordered 1GB DDR3 with the CPU / motherboard and removed 3GB from my Core i7 920 system which had 9GB but now has 6GB. The DVD+/-R/RW drive was on the shelf but I may upgrade or add a BD-ROM drive (~$59.99). I think I want to move the system to an Antec 300 which is much smaller and lighter. Space is getting to be a bit of an issue.
-
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