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| Hey Karl France has a 20% VAT. The French people live in a high density country. The average French workers income was $ 24,770 in 2003. Almost half of the population lives in Paris, Lyon, Marseille/ Aix-en-Provence, and Lille. 76% of the people live in urban areas. Per - »www.economywatch.com/world_economy/france/
France would be one or two states if it were part of the U.S. It has a smaller GDP than California.
France has suffered very high unemployment forever. They are unable to make many of their people productive. - »www.tradingeconomics.com/Economi···mbol=FRF
As you wish France upon us, please consider are we ready to force march Americans out of rural and suburban areas? Are we really ready to have a constant 7.5-10% unemployment rate? Are we ready for our youth (under 30) to have a 40-50% unemployment rate?
As you love Europe and France, think about some of the negatives these people live with.
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." |
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| I've been to France pretty recently. It and Germany reminded me of the Midwest as far a population density and land.
I think we're in high unemployment forever here too. Oh and the average American worker's income is dropping here as well.
I think we'll be really like France soon enough... |
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pandoraPremium
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| said by jjeffeory:I've been to France pretty recently. It and Germany reminded me of the Midwest as far a population density and land. I think we're in high unemployment forever here too. Oh and the average American worker's income is dropping here as well. I think we'll be really like France soon enough... So you think half our population will be in 5 cities? I checked the unemployment rate at the link back to 1980, it varies in France from 7.5 to 10%. We are currently experiencing a recession, in France this is normal. Are you really in favor of a 20% VAT?
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." |
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| said by pandora:said by jjeffeory:I've been to France pretty recently. It and Germany reminded me of the Midwest as far a population density and land. I think we're in high unemployment forever here too. Oh and the average American worker's income is dropping here as well. I think we'll be really like France soon enough... So you think half our population will be in 5 cities? I checked the unemployment rate at the link back to 1980, it varies in France from 7.5 to 10%. We are currently experiencing a recession, in France this is normal. Are you really in favor of a 20% VAT? Ha, if we keep letting mexicans cross, obtain benefits and work here dumbing down our wages just so they can send the money back to mexico where its worth several times more in value, then yes, we will be a limp dog country.. We can't all be CEO's of companies hiring these people on a regular basis... And tax benefits to companies to send jobs across seas? Hell no!
We had a bill pass during the shrub administration that allows illegals to tap into our social security fund after being here just three years! Three years as compared to a lifetime for most amerians! SHAME!! SHAME!!!! United we FAIL! |
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1 edit | reply to jjeffeory
said by jjeffeory:I've been to France pretty recently. It and Germany reminded me of the Midwest as far a population density and land. I think we're in high unemployment forever here too. Oh and the average American worker's income is dropping here as well. I think we'll be really like France soon enough... Oh YEAH! Paris has the population density of the midwest? What crack have YOU been smoking? |
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4 edits | reply to pandora
No. I never said that half of our population is in 5 cities... We have more than 5 large cities in our country and France has more than 5 large cities as well. »www.citymayors.com/gratis/french_cities.html
France is a little smaller than Texas. To address your first comment, yea, France would be a BIG state for sure. It would be better to compare it to a US region that is more like it such as the U.S. Midwest States minus the Western "Plain States" so that we can keep the size a little closer to France.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwestern···d_States - »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Plains
I'd wager that our population are in "cities" just like France. We have 14 "large" cities over 250k in the Midwest: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mi···_by_size.
The population trends are similar to what I saw in France with its 7 large cities over 250k.... ( »www.citymayors.com/gratis/french_cities.html)
Most of the population in both places ( France, Midwest U.S) are in cities... I know, because I've been to both places. I've been to all of these cities... They're really pretty similar.
What you see there and what you see in the Midwest are some large cities and a bunch of countryside. It looks pretty similar to me. If anything, we have more big cities in about the same area... So we should have better broadband penetration!
We are currently experiencing a recession where the un-official numbers are around 20% while the gov't is reporting around 10%. We'd need to know what both the official U.S. unemployment numbers are reporting versus the French unemployment numbers are reporting. For instance, when do the French stop counting people as being unemployed versus when does our gov't stop counting people as unemployed. You may be surprised to know that they may differ. You can not compare apples to oranges. Also, here's an article from MSN wondering if new high unemployment numbers in the US will be the norm: »www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33384835/ns···_economy
Something to think about on that front...
I wasn't really addressing the 20% VAT, but since you just did right now maybe you'll notice that we're steadily working our way towards that. Chicago's sales tax, for instance, is at 10.25% and rising... Many cities have high hotel taxes. I believe D.C. charges a 14% tax on hotel rooms. Salt Lake City has a 16.350% tax on rental cars. Don't worry, we'll get there eventually... Frankly, I'd be happier with a sales/use tax hike if it would get rid of income taxes. I'm not crazy about the VAT, but France isn't the worse place to be in the world. We all need to get over ourselves and realize that America is no longer the center of the world, and the way we do things isn't the "only" right way to do things. Obviously, France has done a better job in deploying next generation broadband than we have so far.... |
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3 edits | reply to qworster
Look at what I typed. I said France and Germany reminded me of the Midwest. The rolling hills, weather, population density, etc....
Maybe I should spell this out for you so that you can understand better...
Paris and Chicago are similar in size. Drive outside of Paris and it looks like the Midwest. Drive around the Midwest and it looks like France. I know, because I've done it. It's not EXACTLY the same, but it's close.
What crack have YOU been smoking, because you obviously don't understand written English! Really, look at what I typed and how YOU responded. It doesn't match. Obviously you weren't paying attention or something...
I never wrote, "PARIS" has a similar population density to the Midwest. I wrote France and Germany. Geesh, get out of LA and maybe go to Paris, not Perris, for a while, man.
There's more to France and Germany than Paris! |
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pandoraPremium
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| reply to jjeffeory
READ THE LINK AND QUOTE FROM THE LINK IN MY FIRST POST.
HALF OF THE POPULATION OF FRANCE IS IN 5 CITIES
This makes getting broadband to half of France very easy. If you read on, you'll note that over 75% of the French population is in cities. Again this eases deployment and lowers costs.
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1 edit | My main point is France isn't that different than, say, the Midwestern United States of American. Yes, there are some higher taxes, currently, but we're catching up. The unemployment numbers are incomparable because we do not know how they measure that. I just don't think we should be knocking places without having been there. That's a big problem that we, as Americans, have and it shows to the rest of the world. France isn't that bad...
Why is it that there is better deployment in France than the Midwest? |
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pandoraPremium
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| said by jjeffeory:Why is it that there is better deployment in France than the Midwest? France is very different from the midwest. As has been repeatedly pointed out to you half the population of France lives in 5 cities, over 3/4's lives in cities. The population density of western Europe the last time I looked was about 4 times that of the U.S. The population density of Europe vs the midwest is probably 10x higher or greater.
Europe pays a 20% VAT, plus other taxes. We do not. My point is loving Europe is not the same as loving the U.S. we are very different. If you want to compare France to urban America, or to the 5 largest cities in the U.S. that may be fair.
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| That's wouldn't be fair. I picked an area of the US that is similar to France for a reason... It's more of an apples to apples comparison that France to the whole US. I'm only trying to point out the validity of numbers. Data looks different when you look at it in different ways. There are people whose whole lives involve comparing things more accurately than what we get in the news and what is issued on reports. |
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pandoraPremium
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| The midwest is not similar to France IMO. When I look here - »wiki.answers.com/Q/France_population_density I read the population density of France is 108 / mile. When I look here I read the population density of the Midwest (was in 2000) »factfinder.census.gov/servlet/GC···_lang=en 87 per square mile.
France has a much greater population density than the midwest.
Alaska and Texas are each considerably larger than France per - »www.wisegeek.com/how-big-are-the···rica.htm
France is 211,207 square miles per the above link, the Midwest is 821,732 square miles per the census link (above). This makes the midwest about 4 times the size of France, and it enjoys a population density of nearly 80% that of France.
Please, try comparing apples to apples. It is harder to wire Texas, and almost as hard to wire California as all of France (for each state).
In the U.S. our population dense centers tend to be on the coasts.
More than half the population of France is in 5 cities. This makes it much easier to provide internet service to the French.
Over here it looks like France is aspiring to have greater than 512kb coverage for 35 euros per month by 2010 - »www.eurisy.org/doceurisy/2009100···ioni.pdf
Wow 512kb for $50-$60 a month, what a deal, huh?
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