pizzaeater
join:2009-11-03 | reply to mromero
Re: Canon EOS 1D Mark IV released....
I wish that they come out with a full frame DSLR:
- that's got no bells and whistles
- no live view
- no movie mode
- no fancy stuff at all
- cost around $1000 |
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JRSlater
What's that smell?
Premium
join:2008-01-11
Martinsburg, WV | Well, you can always shoot film. 
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»www.jrslaterphotography.com/
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hse
High Speed Edition
Premium
join:2003-10-25
ON, Canada
| reply to pizzaeater
said by pizzaeater  :I wish that they come out with a full frame DSLR: - that's got no bells and whistles - no live view - no movie mode - no fancy stuff at all - cost around $1000 Used 5D? |
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Gemologist
Premium
join:2001-11-15
USA
clubs: 
| reply to mromero
Gonna be hard to find a FF dSLR for $1000.
A used 5D as HSE stated, a Film camera as Jeff mentions or for a good price you could even get as MF(medium format) film camera and a good slide scanner and have a far greater setup, or a Sigma SD14. The Sigma SD14 is a crop sensor camera but has output in resolution equal to the Canon 5D, but the benefit you get over a 5D is much greater Dynamic Range, truer/more accurate color reproduction, thanks and greater sharpness to the FoveonX3 sensor technology.
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pizzaeater
join:2009-11-03
| said by Gemologist :Gonna be hard to find a FF dSLR for $1000. That's why I said "I wish that they come out with...". It's time camera manufacturers focus on affordable FFs. A lot of people like me who are stuck with APS-C are going to upgrade to it. |
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Gemologist
Premium
join:2001-11-15
USA
clubs:
1 edit | The question is though, exactly why do you need a FF?
Also, the Sigma is quite affordable and offers the same rez output as a Canon 5D. |
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Exit
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-04-10
Canada
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
| said by Gemologist :The question is though, exactly why do you need a FF? Also, the Sigma is quite affordable and offers the same rez output as a Canon 5D. Why wouldn't someone want a larger sensor? Larger photosites, pixel pitch, ISO performance, lenses working at their designed focal lengths, larger/brighter viewfinder.....shall we keep going?  |
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Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
 ·T-Mobile US
| said by Exit :shall we keep going? Shallower DOF.
Wayne
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If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you're not a technician. |
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Gemologist
Premium
join:2001-11-15
USA
clubs:
| reply to Exit
said by Exit :Why wouldn't someone want a larger sensor? Larger photosites, pixel pitch, ISO performance, lenses working at their designed focal lengths, larger/brighter viewfinder.....shall we keep going? Not everyone needs nor wants all of that. My VF are fine on my Pentax cameras.  .
As for photosites and such, why? Most all users on the forums will seldom if ever print above an 8x10", lol, and a simple P&S can do this as good now as a dSLR can. .
Some people like more DOF vs. shallower, lol.
As for ISO performance, not so sure there, the crop bodies are pretty darn close anymore and in print are even closer.
The reason I asked is because far too many folks think a FF is the "Magic Bullet" to mastering photography, lol. When in reality it is a tool most do not need to throw the money away on because they will never use a single benefit of a FF sensor camera. Heck, most never use the benefits of the crop dSLR they currently own!
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Exit
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-04-10
Canada
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to mromero
Camera doesn't make the photos and we all know that
A P&S camera does a good job for most people, but it doesn't resolve the same detail as a DSLR. You know that a MF digital back even at 16MP will destroy anything a DSLR can produce these days and that comes down to sensor size (for the most part). Unless some big breakthroughs have been made in the last while that I'm not aware of I think I'm right here
There is not a single person on this planet that would choose a smaller view finder given the choice
Anywho a used 5D can be had for $1000 or less right now and it's still an amazing camera for anyone that doesn't need all the bells and whistles of the new cameras |
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Gemologist
Premium
join:2001-11-15
USA
clubs:
| said by Exit :Camera doesn't make the photos and we all know that You and I and quite a few others may, but general consensus is actually just the opposite.
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Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
·T-Mobile US
1 edit | reply to Gemologist
said by Gemologist :Some people like more DOF vs. shallower, lol. And that is easily done with a larger sensor by using the aperture of the lens, however the reverse is not always possible as the aperture of any given lens will only open so far hence the desire by many for the larger sensor.
As for photosites and such, why? Most all users on the forums will seldom if ever print above an 8x10", lol, and a simple P&S can do this as good now as a dSLR can. . You might be surprised to learn many of us print images way larger than an 8” by 10”, I just did some work for a local cargo carrier (airline) that was printed out and installed as a wall sized image 8’ high by 12’ wide for their HQ.
Wayne
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If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you're not a technician. |
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hse
High Speed Edition
Premium
join:2003-10-25
ON, Canada
| Well technically the larger sensor doesn't inherently have less DOF, it's when you move closer or use a longer focal length to achieve similar framing as the cropped sensor that gives shallower DOF.
If you use the same focal length on both a cropped and FF camera from the same point, DOF will be identical, just that the cropped body will show less of the frame. |
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Exit
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-04-10
Canada
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to Splitpair
said by Splitpair :As for photosites and such, why? Most all users on the forums will seldom if ever print above an 8x10", lol, and a simple P&S can do this as good now as a dSLR can. . You might be surprised to learn many of us print images way larger than an 8” by 10”, I just did some work for a local cargo carrier (airline) that was printed out and installed as a wall sized image 8’ high by 12’ wide for their HQ. Wayne Exactly. I shot some stuff for a produce company that they put on the side of their trucks. They were printed almost 53' long |
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Gemologist
Premium
join:2001-11-15
USA
clubs:
| reply to mromero
Some of us print larger files, but the majority do NOT. Not everyone is doing it commercially. Most shoot and post internet pictures and/or print 4x6", 5x7", and an 8x10" now and then with a rare once in a while 11x14" or larger. And in most cases the subject they are printing will not benefit from a FF to begin with.
Again, not everyone needs nor wants a FF sensor. Quite frankly I have no desire for one really except the occasional usage. I much more prefer my crop sensors. If I want FF I will shoot film as it still kicks digitals butt anyways IMHO.
As for a wall sized image, lol, one can print billboard with an old 300D or 10D and it works just fine. 8'x12' could easily be done with a crop sensor 5MP dSLR and be of fine quality at the viewing distance it would be viewed at. The methods printers can use to uprez images for this purpose works great. FF is not needed for that purpose in the reality of it. Not to mention, we are again, talking about commercial purposes, and most do not shoot commercially.
As I mentioned before, the Sigma is not FF yet it has the same rez output as a FF, truer and more accurate colors, better DR, and greater pixel sharpness then a FF sensor. .
A FF is a specific tool for specific purposes. As is MF, LF, etc. There comes a time when it is pure overkill.
As for DOF, again, not everyone needs nor wants more then a crop body can offer. In fact, I often use a P&S for work simply for the greater DOF and control over DOF, even over a crop body dSLR. There is a reason many many macro shooters choose P&S cameras over dSLRs to do their work with.
Not to mention I don't recall asking anyone but Pizzaeater as to why they want, or think they need, a FF camera!? Considering their requirements of it being $1000 or less, they are obviously not doing commercial work or that requirement wouldn't be there nor matter, so that right off the top really makes strikes against needing FF without even knowing anything else. .
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | People too often confuse needs with wants. 99% of us don't even need cameras, let alone "need" FF or this lens or that lighting equipment. |
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JRSlater
What's that smell?
Premium
join:2008-01-11
Martinsburg, WV
| It is true that I do not need a FF camera. It is true that I do not need any gear photographically or other type of gear. I sure am glad I have what I have though.
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»www.jrslaterphotography.com/
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