 | reply to patcat88
Re: Citizen identification I seriously doubt it. I think I remember reading something somewhere that the address space for IPv6 is so large that it could support some insane number of addresses on a per square foot or square mile... I don't remember off the top of my head exactly what this was -- in the millions?
However, I took the math somebody did on Wikipedia and reposted it here:
"The very large IPv6 address space supports a total of 2128 (about 3.4×1038) addressesor approximately 5×1028 (roughly 295) addresses for each of the roughly 6.5 billion (6.5×109) people alive in 2006.[10] In a different perspective, this is 252 addresses for every observable star in the known universe."
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6 |
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 patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | said by matrix3D:However, I took the math somebody did on Wikipedia and reposted it here: "The very large IPv6 address space supports a total of 2128 (about 3.4×10^38) addressesor approximately 5×10^28 (roughly 295) addresses for each of the roughly 6.5 billion (6.5×109) people alive in 2006.[10] In a different perspective, this is 252 addresses for every observable star in the known universe." » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6 But we already gave half the address space away to MAC addresses. Why don't we give away an address to each possible process on each computer in the world? Why not reserve an address for each possible thread of each possible process of each possible microprocessor for each possible person for each possible location (GPS coords) on earth? why not turn IPv6 addresses into a global cloud computing supercomputer, all RAM bits in the world will be addressable through a unique IP address! |
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 | I'm assuming your post is meant to be sarcastic... but if it's not, why would a process or a thread even NEED an IP address? Only individual nodes or devices need an IP address. |
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 SLDPremium join:2002-04-17 San Francisco, CA | reply to matrix3D Lets hope they can keep up with dense blade server installations  |
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 GNHTesla RecoiledPremium join:1999-12-20 Arlington, TX | reply to matrix3D I remember when someone thought IPv4 would NEVER be exhausted... |
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 GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium join:2001-09-30 Santa Rosa, CA kudos:8 Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
| said by GNH:I remember when someone thought IPv4 would NEVER be exhausted... Do you also remember when 256k of ram would be all you ever need? -- My BLOG! Black Friday Ads |
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 nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium join:2002-10-04 Alexandria, VA | reply to GNH said by GNH:I remember when someone thought IPv4 would NEVER be exhausted... And it wouldn't be, had they been used, properly. I mean, does it make any kind of sense for an enterprise to have any public IPs on non Internet-facing systems? Were NAT more widely used, we'd have a lot less IP consumption going on. Hell: ISPs that really wanted to prevent customers from running servers would put their customers on private address spaces. -- The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell |
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 nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium join:2002-10-04 Alexandria, VA | reply to Gbcue said by Gbcue:said by GNH:I remember when someone thought IPv4 would NEVER be exhausted... Do you also remember when 256k of ram would be all you ever need? You sure that wasn't 640K? -- The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell |
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 elios join:2005-11-15 Springfield, MO | reply to nixen when the first class As were given out there WAS no such thing as NAT.... sooo yea |
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 | reply to nixen I remember when the 1GB HDD came out and no one knew what the heck to do with all that space, lol. |
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 nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium join:2002-10-04 Alexandria, VA | reply to elios said by elios:when the first class As were given out there WAS no such thing as NAT.... sooo yea Yes, I know. Then again, some of the first recipients of those allocations no longer exist, either, or exist in different forms than the original organizations. There's very few companies, then or now, that would need an entire /8 of public IP addresses. For those that do need that many addresses internally, there's an ISC space for them. Would have been a lot better, overall, for the original class A and class B holders to cede them back to ARIN. Given modern network deployments, could have put off the need for IPv6 by another 5-10+ years. -- The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell |
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 nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium join:2002-10-04 Alexandria, VA | reply to PapaMidnight said by PapaMidnight:I remember when the 1GB HDD came out and no one knew what the heck to do with all that space, lol. I remember my dad getting a HUGE 40MB hard drive (it was pretty physically big, too) back in the early 80s. It was mad-expensive, too. -- The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell |
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 koitsuPremium,MVM join:2002-07-16 Mountain View, CA kudos:14 2 edits | reply to nixen said by nixen:There's very few companies, then or now, that would need an entire /8 of public IP addresses. ... I'm in complete agreement. And here's a list of those who IANA and ARIN should put pressure on:
»www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-ad···pace.xml
The US Department of Defence is one of the top offenders.
Be sure to note how many /8 blocks IANA has reserved for their own use as well. I'm not sure if that means they're being held for future delegation or what.
There's also multicast, which takes up such an absurd amount of space that it should really be cut in half (at bare minimum). -- Making life hard for others since 1977. I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer. |
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 patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | reply to matrix3D said by matrix3D:I'm assuming your post is meant to be sarcastic... but if it's not, why would a process or a thread even NEED an IP address? Only individual nodes or devices need an IP address. We can eliminate port numbers by giving each process an IP address. With the future (jk) cloud computing/internet appliance/X Windows style dumb terminals, all programs will be RPC enabled, and have unique IPs. Handles and objects transparently work over the internet. GUIDs are history, we have IP ranges instead of GUIDs. |
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 koitsuPremium,MVM join:2002-07-16 Mountain View, CA kudos:14 | said by patcat88:said by matrix3D:I'm assuming your post is meant to be sarcastic... but if it's not, why would a process or a thread even NEED an IP address? Only individual nodes or devices need an IP address. We can eliminate port numbers by giving each process an IP address. With the future (jk) cloud computing/internet appliance/X Windows style dumb terminals, all programs will be RPC enabled, and have unique IPs. Handles and objects transparently work over the internet. GUIDs are history, we have IP ranges instead of GUIDs. Please explain your logic here on a technical level, and verbosely at that. I'll save my flames for *after* you're given the chance to explain how this would work on a technical level. -- Making life hard for others since 1977. I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer. |
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 patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 2 edits | said by koitsu:Please explain your logic here on a technical level, and verbosely at that. I'll save my flames for *after* you're given the chance to explain how this would work on a technical level. We replace TCP and UDP and use a protocol without port numbers. Lets allocate 32 bits of the 128bit IP for all possible RPC/IPC objects an application might use (4 billion). Then we allocate 24 bits of the 128 bit IP address to label each protocol/application, 65000 (16 bits) wasn't enough with IPv4. The 32 RPC/IPC object bits and the 24 application bits combined remove the need for a loopback range. Let allocate 16 bits of the IP address for all the devices one person might own (65000). Now we are down to 56 bits left. In the next couple decades we are going to have atleast 40 billion people on earth since population growths exponentially. Lets allocate 44 bits of our remaining 56 to individual humans (a device might wind up with multiple IPs, one for each of its owners), that gives us the ability to give an IP range/address to 17592 billion humans, we might go intergalactic and spread all over the universe, IPv6 needs to follow us. The remaining 12 bits we give away to actual ISPs, thats gives us 4096 ISPs in the world. We just exhausted the IPv6 address space, time to hastily upgrade to IPv7.
Also there must be some external mechanism to replace broadcast addresses and multicast. Maybe we can allocate one of the 4096 ISPs to be a multicast range. |
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 koitsuPremium,MVM join:2002-07-16 Mountain View, CA kudos:14 | said by patcat88:said by koitsu:Please explain your logic here on a technical level, and verbosely at that. I'll save my flames for *after* you're given the chance to explain how this would work on a technical level. We replace TCP and UDP and use a protocol without port numbers. Lets allocate 32 bits of the 128bit IP for all possible RPC/IPC objects an application might use (4 billion). Then we allocate 24 bits of the 128 bit IP address to label each protocol/application, 65000 (16 bits) wasn't enough with IPv4. The 32 RPC/IPC object bits and the 24 application bits combined remove the need for a loopback range. Let allocate 16 bits of the IP address for all the devices one person might own (65000). Now we are down to 56 bits left. In the next couple decades we are going to have atleast 40 billion people on earth since population growths exponentially. Lets allocate 44 bits of our remaining 56 to individual humans (a device might wind up with multiple IPs, one for each of its owners), that gives us the ability to give an IP range/address to 17592 billion humans, we might go intergalactic and spread all over the universe, IPv6 needs to follow us. The remaining 12 bits we give away to actual ISPs, thats gives us 4096 ISPs in the world. We just exhausted the IPv6 address space, time to hastily upgrade to IPv7. Also there must be some external mechanism to replace broadcast addresses and multicast. Maybe we can allocate one of the 4096 ISPs to be a multicast range. I'm sold! Where do I send my investment money?  -- Making life hard for others since 1977. I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer. |
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 brad join:2007-09-06 Etobicoke, ON | reply to nixen said by nixen:said by GNH:I remember when someone thought IPv4 would NEVER be exhausted... And it wouldn't be, had they been used, properly. I mean, does it make any kind of sense for an enterprise to have any public IPs on non Internet-facing systems? Were NAT more widely used, we'd have a lot less IP consumption going on. Hell: ISPs that really wanted to prevent customers from running servers would put their customers on private address spaces. Try working in the real world and you'll find NAT is not really solving anything. Its just a problem waiting for more problems. If we had more NAT more shit would be broken. yay. that's what I want.. NOT. |
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 TomS_Git-r-donePremium,MVM join:2002-07-19 Ireland kudos:1 | reply to patcat88 said by patcat88:But we already gave half the address space away to MAC addresses. No we didnt. 64 bits is not half of the IPv6 address space. It may be half of the number of bits, but with each bit you add you have to double the amount of combinations. To give away half of the address space you need to work on a 127 bit boundary.
i.e. 127 bits with the 128th (left hand most bit) being 0, and 127 bits with the 128th bit being 1. Those are the two halves of the address apce. 
64 bits gives you 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 (18 billion billion) possible combinations.
128 bits gives you 340,282,366,920,938,463,463,374,607,431,768,211,456 (340 billion billion billion billion) possible combinations.
The number of times that the former goes into the latter is 18,446,744,073,709,551,616.
So we have given away 1/18,446,744,073,709,551,616 of all possible IPv6 address space.
But it is not to "MAC addresses" as such... |
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 nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium join:2002-10-04 Alexandria, VA | reply to brad said by brad:Try working in the real world and you'll find NAT is not really solving anything. Its just a problem waiting for more problems. If we had more NAT more shit would be broken. yay. that's what I want.. NOT. Doing seven years at global web-hosting providers' operations departments was as close as I came to "real world". Notice I said "non Internet-facing". The biggest problems tended to be when people try to make NATed systems reachable by outside (e.g., customers' administrators and developers didn't want to use a bastion-host to access their second and third-tier systems). NAT wasn't exactly designed for that.
Was also painful with some replication solutions/configurations (when customers replicated non Internet-facing tiers over the Internet rather than dedicated, backend connections).
For desktop systems and for infrastructure that only ever talks on the internal networks, typically doesn't require the use of public address space. -- The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell |
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