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hmagoo5
join:2009-10-15
Palm Desert, CA

hmagoo5

Member

e911 - voip.ms - gv

I currently have my setup working using voip.ms for outgoing calls with a spa 2102NA. I have not purchased/used a DID from them as of yet. Incoming calls are forwarded from my google voice DID to (both, just in case) ipkall and gizmo via sip forwarding to [voip.ms username]@[dyndns host] pointing to my spa 2102's external IP.

I have no problem paying $1.50+.99/month for a voip.ms DID in order to have e911 like capability, but my problem is how would I do that and maintain my google voice number caller ID for most calls that I wish to make.

The current way everything is working is really how I would like to proceed. I call someone and they see my google voice number. But, I'm curious if there is any way to purchase a voip.ms DID w/ e911 service and only use that for 911 calls via the dial plan, or some other ideas? I have a cordless phone system which only operates on one line.

Thank you for your comments.
OmagicQ
Posting in a thread near you
join:2003-10-23
Bakersfield, CA

OmagicQ

Member

Some providers will change your outbound caller id to a number you own. Both Callcentric and Future9 changed my cid to my google voice number when I asked. Voip.ms might let you do the same. That said, you should be able to get E911 service without having to get a did.

josephf
join:2009-04-26

josephf to hmagoo5

Member

to hmagoo5
I'm pretty sure the definition of E911 requires that the PSAP receives a phone number they can call you back on.

I don't see how E911 is possible without a DID.
hmagoo5
join:2009-10-15
Palm Desert, CA

2 edits

hmagoo5

Member

I would like to pass the gv number as CID but calling the 911 normally would pass that CID correct? would like a way to call 911 and have it register with the voip.ms did.

or, if I could pass any CID I own when calling 911, which would leave my cell number, and that might pass my address?

josephf
join:2009-04-26

1 edit

josephf

Member

I don't believe the E911 regulations allow a number to be passed to the PSAP other than the actual number from where the 911 call originated.

So a GV or a cellular number couldn't be sent to the PSAP, if the rules are being followed.
PX Eliezer704
Premium Member
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River

1 edit

PX Eliezer704 to josephf

Premium Member

to josephf
1) I don't quite understand the OP's issue, because Voip.MS allows you to set whatever caller ID you want, on their main dashboard (website control panel). Voip.MS also provided these test numbers:

811: e911 Emergency Test
822: Test CallerID

----------------------------------------

2) Regarding the statement "I don't see how E911 is possible without a DID" this is not true.

CallCentric does this all the time. They definitely can and do have e911 service when paid outbound service is established even with no DID. In such cases, a special DID is established that is transmitted to the PSAP, so that the PSAP can call back the customer if needed. I'm sure that various other providers do something like this too.

josephf
join:2009-04-26

josephf

Member

Eliezer,

You are not disagreeing with me. In CallCentric's case they ARE giving you a (unpaid) DID temporarily for the purposes of E911.

I wonder how long CC's temp DID is operable for after the 911 call.
CallC
Premium Member
join:2009-09-21
New York, NY

CallC

Premium Member

said by josephf:

Eliezer,

You are not disagreeing with me. In CallCentric's case they ARE giving you a (unpaid) DID temporarily for the purposes of E911.

I wonder how long CC's temp DID is operable for after the 911 call.
Callcentric assigns to ANY PAID subscriber, who explicitly answered that they will be using the service from within US/Canada, a PERMANENT (not temporary) "hidden" DID which is then used whenever 911 call is made. Yes, this approach involves additional costs on maintaining an extra DID on subscriber's account. But it allows us to fully comply with both FCC and CRTC requirements (we have registered dockets on file with both regulators; we've had multiple discussions with regulators, regarding how the E911 service should be deployed and represented to subscribers) by having an incoming 911 facility without regard of how many DIDs the subscriber may currently have or no DIDs at all (for example - outbound only, pay as you go plan) or even in cases when residential (US/Canadian) subscriber may have no outbound plan or have a DID somewhere in UK or any other foreign DID - all those people are still able to call E911 service, the same as it's allowed from any operational mobile handset, even after the paid service could have been dropped and not paid for - within 20 days we still provide E911 service; of course the phone (UA) must be registered to our servers - otherwise it's technically impossible. The subscriber may have multiple 911 addresses registered at the same time with us - any address can be selected and made active at any time, directly from user's portal. This is what called E911 service for "nomadic" customers by both, FCC and CRTC.

Some companies (by taking an advantage of "uneven" playing field) are falsely advertising (either mentioned here or on some other VOIP "comparison" sites) that they are E911 compliant... no, they're not - it's only a statistical matter of time until [tragedy happened and] they get caught and questioned. This had already happened to Vonage in past - the whole E911 "roll-out" story had begun then.
nitzan
Premium Member
join:2008-02-27

nitzan to josephf

Premium Member

to josephf
said by josephf:

I'm pretty sure the definition of E911 requires that the PSAP receives a phone number they can call you back on.

I don't see how E911 is possible without a DID.
Technically speaking, there is nothing preventing you from setting the CID to a real phone number (that is served by another carrier - like GV), and trasmitting that when you call E911.

This would most likely not be FCC-compliant E911 though. But then again- if you don't have an incoming DID with the provider then E911 is not required to begin with hence the regulations don't actually apply.

Having said that- some carriers will "lock" their phone numbers so other carriers cannot use them for 911. For this reason (and other) if you're going to do something like this make sure to TEST it before assuming it works.

Can you do this with Future Nine? technically, yes- you can. Keep in mind however that going forward we will have a $3/month minimum commit. If all you want is E911 without using anything else- it'll be $3/mo. I do not recommend this, and recommend you actually get a phone number with your E911 - better safe than sorry, and the provider (any provider) could use the extra income. The E911 fee itself goes 100% to paying the cost of providing E911 so no profit there.
nitzan

nitzan to CallC

Premium Member

to CallC
said by CallC:

Callcentric assigns to ANY PAID subscriber, who explicitly answered that they will be using the service from within US/Canada, a PERMANENT (not temporary) "hidden" DID which is then used whenever 911 call is made.
So what's preventing a user from making an E911 "test" call, finding out what their hidden DID is, then use it as an incoming phone number?

I know it's a lot of work for relatively little benefit, but I'm sure you know as well as I do some people will go to great lengths to gain free service.

josephf
join:2009-04-26

1 edit

josephf to CallC

Member

to CallC
said by CallC:

Some companies (by taking an advantage of "uneven" playing field) are falsely advertising (either mentioned here or on some other VOIP "comparison" sites) that they are E911 compliant... no, they're not - it's only a statistical matter of time until [tragedy happened and] they get caught and questioned.
said by nitzan:

But then again- if you don't have an incoming DID with the provider then E911 is not required to begin with hence the regulations don't actually apply.
Is there a disagreement between CallC and nitzan here? IF I am reading it correctly, CallC is maintaining that the FCC E911 regulations are applicable with an outgoing-only customer.
josephf

josephf to nitzan

Member

to nitzan
said by nitzan:

said by CallC:

Callcentric assigns to ANY PAID subscriber, who explicitly answered that they will be using the service from within US/Canada, a PERMANENT (not temporary) "hidden" DID which is then used whenever 911 call is made.
So what's preventing a user from making an E911 "test" call, finding out what their hidden DID is, then use it as an incoming phone number?

I know it's a lot of work for relatively little benefit, but I'm sure you know as well as I do some people will go to great lengths to gain free service.
I suppose that CallC could change the DID to another one at-will at anytime, for any reason, without any notice, making any previous distribution of the "hidden" DID by the customer useless.
nitzan
Premium Member
join:2008-02-27

nitzan to josephf

Premium Member

to josephf
said by josephf:

Is there a disagreement between CallC and nitzan here? IF I am reading it correctly, CallC is maintaining that the FCC E911 regulations are applicable with an outgoing-only customer.
I think this is more of a grey area.

josephf
join:2009-04-26

josephf

Member

Until tragedy strikes?
nitzan
Premium Member
join:2008-02-27

nitzan

Premium Member

said by josephf:

Until tragedy strikes?
Sorry- I don't buy that. If you don't wear a seat belt, and lose a limb in an accident - are you going to blame the car maker or the other driver for your own stupidity? (not wearing a seat belt)

Same thing here- if you setup E911 with a CID not owned by the provider - are you going to blame the provider if that phone number is unreachable when you KNOW they have no control over that phone number to begin with? are you going to blame GV when you KNOW it is a beta service and was never meant to be a phone service? it's your own damn fault for using E911 with a GV phone number - that is just dumb, sorry for being blunt.

Hence why I said I don't recommend it, and hence why I said if you do choose to do it - ***TEST IT FIRST***. Don't just assume it works.

Riding a motorcycle is dangerous. From a logical point of view it's a really really dumb thing to do. It's not a matter of IF you get in an accident - it's a matter of WHEN. People do however take that chance all the time, and the law allows them to because it's a personal choice whether to sacrifice your safety for the joy of riding a motorcycle. Same here- it's your OWN CHOICE to setup E911 with a number not provided by the provider.

Having said that- having E911 without an incoming number or E911 with an incoming number operated by another provider (GV included) is better than not having E911 at all. Which is safer? having outgoing-only E911 - or none at all?

Trev
AcroVoice & DryVoIP Official Rep
Premium Member
join:2009-06-29
Victoria, BC

Trev to hmagoo5

Premium Member

to hmagoo5
$25 USD per year to have completely stand alone E911 service for Americans, $28 CAD per year to have VoIP 9-1-1 for Canadians.

I've been doing this for a few years now for Canadian subscribers who couldn't otherwise get 9-1-1 service. It works with your existing service and is easy to implement with your Sipura/Linksys ATA or your home asterisk server.

My site allows online ordering for Canadians, but American subscribers will have to contact me as the US service is just coming online now with my new partner.
PX Eliezer704
Premium Member
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River

PX Eliezer704

Premium Member

So this stand-alone 911 service would go along with with providers such as CallWithUs, Link2Voip, and any others that do not offer their own 911 service?

Will it work for GoogleVoice folks?

Trev
AcroVoice & DryVoIP Official Rep
Premium Member
join:2009-06-29
Victoria, BC

Trev

Premium Member

That is correct. As long as you have a DID that is yours and can get a return phone call, I can set you up with proper 911 support.

You'll tweak your dial plan to connect 911 calls to my server instead of your current ITSP. If the PSAP needs to call you back, they'll do it through whatever Canada/US/toll free number you have with your primary provider.

I may also have a solution where multiple addresses can be registered for installations that have phones are more than one location while single phone number, but I am still working out the feasibility of such.
hmagoo5
join:2009-10-15
Palm Desert, CA

hmagoo5

Member

thank you for all the comments. What I was looking to do was not entirely clear and straight forward so I'm not surprised there is a wide array of subject matter in the thread.

I will look into all the options so far, lots of info!

and I will say that I didn't start this thread to find a way to save money, but to find a way to use one line on an ATA device, have e911, and have my gv number be the outgoing caller ID when making calls. I was thinking there might be a simple solution, like a dial plan, that I was missing.

thanks.
PX Eliezer704
Premium Member
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River

PX Eliezer704 to Trev

Premium Member

to Trev
said by Trev:

$25 USD per year to have completely stand alone E911 service for Americans, $28 CAD per year to have VoIP 9-1-1 for Canadians.

I've been doing this for a few years now for Canadian subscribers who couldn't otherwise get 9-1-1 service. It works with your existing service and is easy to implement with your Sipura/Linksys ATA or your home asterisk server.

My site allows online ordering for Canadians, but American subscribers will have to contact me as the US service is just coming online now with my new partner.
How does one find out more and/or sign up for the service?
soitgoes2
Premium Member
join:2005-01-14

soitgoes2

Premium Member

The link is in trev's signature.
hmagoo5
join:2009-10-15
Palm Desert, CA

hmagoo5

Member

trev from »www.digitalcon.ca/ has a product that looks like it might work well. I think that will be the first option I try. Perhaps in the near future google voice might become undesirable and dialing out with an outgoing provider's DID number would not be an inconvenience for me. Currently, however, I am looking to use e911 service, and by default call out using GV number caller ID.
stufried
Premium Member
join:2003-10-13

stufried to hmagoo5

Premium Member

to hmagoo5
Call my silly, but I really think you should be able to opt out E911.

I have multiple inbound DIDs and outbound DIDs at multiple locations. I can rig my Asterisks box so that any phone on my system is connected to the correct 911 PSAP center.

Two of my outbound connections are solely for international. If someone managed to call inbound on one of those numbers, I doubt they'd get my IVR let alone know where to call.