webformix
join:2009-01-25
Bend, OR
| [Equipment] Tranzeo Class Action Lawsuit or Boycott
So, I'm thinking about suing Tranzeo, and wanted to see if anyone else wanted to go class-action on them.
I've been battling a nagging issue with CPQ radios in NAT/router/QoS mode. Basically, if you're pushing more then 1-2mbps of bandwidth through them and creating multiple TCP/IP connections, the radio will run out of memory and it will stop passing traffic between the LAN and WAN ports. I've been bugging Tranzeo about this issue for a long time now and they've always given me the run around saying it was because I was using Mikrotik AP's, or that my network was congested.
Just recently I proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's a bug in their firmware OR a hardware limitation AND I finally got a tech to admit that this has been a long standing issue with their radios since they started selling them, and that the only way to get around this issue is to set them up in bridge mode. He said that engineers know about it, but that he had no idea when a fix would be available.
We typically only see it on power user clients, or people with multiple computers behind a CPQ. So far we've just been swapping them out clients that complain for a WiMAX or a Ubiquiti PS2 radio.
Anyone else seeing this issue? Anyone else wanna sue Tranzeo for misleading statements, and selling products with known issues and limitations and keeping them a secret?
We will never buy Tranzeo again. |
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Semaphore
Premium
join:2003-11-18
Arnprior On.
| Tranzeo would most definitely not be the only company "guilty" of this.
I worked the other side of the fence in a few places for 10 years and most, if not all, vendors know about limitations that they don't tell the customer, even though the customer may be experiencing the very same issue. Some are more complicit than others when it comes to the degree of denial... |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| reply to webformix
While I know you are frustrated, I highly doubt a class action lawsuit is the correct method of getting a bug fixed!. I have been messing with radios since 2000. Almost every radio out there has a quirk here and there that will drive you nuts, no matter how well it works.
The best way to let them know how you feel is with your wallet!. Start buying DLB units and tell us all about it. S@#*&$#!@ges used to be good at trying to push their issues onto other things, claiming all of the issues you would have were due to a fault you created. That got old really fast.
Rip them all out and dump them on ebay!. 
--
»www.wavecrazy.net
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webformix
join:2009-01-25
Bend, OR
| Bugs I can deal with as long as the manufacturer is transparent about them and actually listens (think UBNT). Tranzeo has a very long track record with WISP's in regards to keeping secrets about performance issues and bugs. I have a list a mile long of sh*t they have pulled on us.
Given how many YEARS this bug has been in place, and the inability for Tranzeo to resolve it, I believe what they have done constitutes fraud and false advertising. They should no longer be selling the CPQ, or they should develop a product that works as advertised. |
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gunther_01
Premium
join:2004-03-29
Saybrook, IL
| reply to webformix
A quick glance over their literature show no remarks about throughput. So how do you figure "false advertising"??
Mislead via a tech, forum, or other avenue probably. But not in the advertising that is listed on their website.
You are asking a lot of the processor to do NAT and QOS on a cheapish CPE. Of course it will move more traffic without conntrack and other things turned on. 1-2 meg does suck, but it is what it is, and if it's hardware I'd also go with the Ebay route. And just not purchase any more of them. |
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shorthairedp
join:2005-11-21
united state
| reply to webformix
My speedometer goes to 110 in my pontiac sunfire, If I were to go out and drive it for 100 miles at 110mph and blew my engine should I be able to sue pontiac since my cheap 10k car didnt perform like a corvette? I mean its got to be false advertising since the speedometer says 110, right? |
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kewlkeed
Grouch
Premium
join:2005-02-05
Knowlton, QC
| reply to webformix
LOL I was thinking KMH and not MPH there for a sec...
I'm like "Well a sunfire is a shitbox, but even THAT can do 110 no prob"... Need my coffee this morning
Joke asides, this is one reason why we dumped Tranzeo ages ago and never looked back. In fact this morning we're ripping down one of the last Tranzeo links we had straggling in our legacy network that we've basically ignored far too long. Up go the BulletMs. *Shakes fist at Mike* Oooooh these better work!
--
Justin - DSLR resident grouch and Mr Negativity
TSI Fanboy - "Dontchya wish your 'net was hot like mine! Ohhh Dontchya!"
Have a nice day! |
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TomS_
debugger it
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-19
Australia
| reply to webformix
I would be more inclined to vote with my wallet. Class action is probably a bit excessive unless there has been substantial financial and/or other ramifications for yourself and others.
Write a letter, address it to their most senior people, and tell them exactly why you are leaving. Explain the problem, what it does, the trouble it causes, any negative effect it has had on your business (lost customers, lost revenue and how, etc), your attempts to bring attention to the issue (include ticket numbers if possible), your requests for a fix (include ticket numbers if possible), and close by stating that you are unsatisfied with the lack of response or resolution.
I also wouldnt hesitate to mention which other vendor(s) you will be using in the future, and why their equipment is worth the effort to switch (i.e. it doesnt have the same problem, thus is better for your business), nor that you will discourage others from using their equipment either.
The more people that do this, the more likely they are to get something done about it. Account managers might hate to lose a client, or may not even care (maybe you are "too much trouble" for them) - at the end of the day they will probably still get paid, and will simply flog products off to others. But the owners or people responsible for the business may be more inclined to care that there may be further consequences.
Hit them where it hurts. |
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Semaphore
Premium
join:2003-11-18
Arnprior On.
| reply to webformix
We bailed on Tranzeo over 2 years ago (after being with them for almost 3 years) for a number of reasons: The biggest problem from my point of view was the handicapped GUI gave almost no troubleshooting clues and despite a number of requests for some basic tools they didn't listen; so I totalled our Tranzeo sales for the year, then called our Sales Rep and told him "This is what we spent last year. Despite several tickets requesting basic tools there's been no adavnces. The scalability of this product is pathetic. We're going to a more mature/scalable/responsive product. Don't call me anymore"
That Sales number was in the mid 20K range. He whined and promised and whined more but screw 'em they only wanted to listen AFTER I was too PO'd to think about going back.
Now I'm very glad we bailed - I've only got 5 Tranzeo's left in service and I think that they'll be replaced in the next few months.
S |
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penypinch
Premium
join:2007-09-07
Henning, MN
| reply to webformix
We also used Tranzeo and bailed after the 900 radios (first Gen) would not work past about 1.8 miles non line of site.
We fought with Tranzeo for over 9 months and gave them a dead line to meet or we would replace all the equipment. The day after the deadline they called and wanted to send an Engineer to site to test the problems. We told them sorry we have ordered in new equipment and will be sending the Tranzeo Tr-900's back for a full refund. We got all but three radios refunded. The ones that were not were the Beta Tr-902's (three of them).
then after that they posted on the website "No refunds for any reason" that should be a clue as not to buy from them as they won't even refund for factory defects ...... LOL
And as far as writing to the board of directors forget it they do not care either, we went that route. Still have all the documentation as well.
We are now a UBNT company and it works great and we have customers out 8.9 miles non line of site (SR9) from two 152 foot Water Towers.
We also are testing a new Tower in South Dakota (West of Sioux Falls) with the XR9 and finding about a 36 mile link so far on a tower (1050 feet above ground).
And the support we get from UBNT is great we will stick with UBNT
Good luck we lost a lot of revenue and customers due to the Tranzeo SNAFU and UBNT will bring them back
* Thanks Mike and Robert for all the great support and products****
--
Mitch
support@abetterwireless.com |
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webformix
join:2009-01-25
Bend, OR
| reply to shorthairedp
What about if your Sunfire only went 1/4 of the advertised speed before it blew up? Shorthair, your analogy does not come close to matching the issue at hand. If there was a car that performed so poorly, you better believe they'd recall it in a heartbeat!
There are two items that clearly highlight my claims that they're misrepresenting their product. The QoS claims to support up to 4mbps, but it doesn't... as I mentioned, it only works for 1-2mbps under load, and second, the DHCP pool claims to support up to 8 clients, which while it does, not at the 4mbps QoS level, not even close.
My point is that they've been selling a product that has serious issues and they've been keeping it a secret from the public; and despite customer outrage they continue to sell a faulty product. This seems like a clear cut case of false advertising, and misrepresenting a product. |
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delmarvawifi
join:2008-07-15 | reply to webformix
You get what you pay for... |
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gunther_01
Premium
join:2004-03-29
Saybrook, IL | reply to webformix
There we go with the Canopy reference  We know, we know LOL |
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delmarvawifi
join:2008-07-15 | reply to webformix
Ubiquiti may well make me eat those words |
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kewlkeed
Grouch
Premium
join:2005-02-05
Knowlton, QC | reply to webformix
Hehehe I wasn't gonna say it... |
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petecarlson
join:2004-11-06
Baltimore, MD | reply to delmarvawifi
We have a rocket dish to dish PTP link that's been rockin for days. 130/130 @20 MHZ and it can move a steady 50mb. I almost wish I hadn't already bought the licensed link for the shot. |
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tranzeo
join:2009-10-26
| reply to webformix
The problem you have is not bandwidth, it is connections.
The CPQ is a basic NAT Router or bridge, designed to support light users. The use case you gave us opens up more connections than the device will support, and as a result the browsing is slower as there are not enough connections.
If you close the bittorrrent, and then go to dslreports.com and do a speedtest, you will get whatever speeds your connection is limited to.
Your options are if you have a power user that needs to open a lot of connections, use the power user product, the TR6000 series product. That product is the cross to the PS/2, and priced about the same too. Or, put the device into bridge mode and use an external router.
The points about troubleshooting Semaphore_ made were valid. The latest versions of the firmware have a lot more tools than it used to. And we have a lot more AP options that we used to for power users as well.
Love it or hate it, be sure to send your comments to feedback@tranzeo.com. Without people's feedback, we can't improve. |
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nevtxjustin
join:2006-04-18
Dallas, TX
| said by tranzeo  :...if you have a power user that needs to open a lot of connections, use the power user product, the TR6000 series product...Or, put the device into bridge mode and use an external router. I'm curious about that. Any more information or explanations? |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| said by nevtxjustin :said by tranzeo :...if you have a power user that needs to open a lot of connections, use the power user product, the TR6000 series product...Or, put the device into bridge mode and use an external router. I'm curious about that. Any more information or explanations? Ya??, me too?. I have used other CO's radios that cost the same or less and never had a unit die on me for connections or problems with the router portion of the radio?. I have Deliberant and Highgain radios in place right now in business environments with over 25 PC's behind them without issues?. While they are not running Bittorrent, they are generating quite a bit of traffic without an issue?.
I am very happy with my Tranzeo products, but they are all doing back haul functions in bridge mode (TR5A products) and I have never used them in PTMP, so I can't add my .02 cents on that side of the story. 
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»www.wavecrazy.net
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SuperWISP
join:2007-04-17
Laramie, WY
3 edits | reply to webformix
I don't think that a class action or boycott is appropriate, but Tranzeo does frustrate many WISPs and hopefully can be encouraged to do something about it.
For example, the inability to reset the radios without asking, "Mother, may I?" has probably lost the company more customers than any other single quirk.
Then, there's the fact that two radios with the same model number on the outside can be entirely different on the inside. For example, a "5a" radio made prior to July 2007 will cover different frequency bands in different ways than one made after. But Tranzeo didn't change the model number so that it would be easy to recognize this vast difference.
And because every Tranzeo product has at least one or two undocumented quirks, you really have to KNOW these radios to use them well.
I could go on... but I'm sure you get the point. I like the company a lot and use a fair amount of Tranzeo gear. I think that far fewer WISPs would switch away from Tranzeo if the company could deal with some of its WISP-friendliness issues. They just need to be a little closer to, and more open with, their resellers/dealers. |
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