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FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

Bankruptcy may allow Fairpoint to cut too high wages

Unions are being asked to make concession in recent weeks, despite having predicted problems before the Verizon deal was signed.
One of the reasons Verizon dumped their land lines in these states was because costs exceeded revenues PARTLY due to high union pay scales. When Fairpoint failed to cut these pay rates when they took over in order to please the regulators and close the deal, they made their fatal mistake.

Maybe with the bankruptcy filing they can abrogate the union contracts and pay the union workers what they are worth - about half of what they were getting paid.
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Time Keeper
Premium,VIP,MVM
join:2004-01-07
Little Rock, AR
kudos:3

3 recommendations

Re: Bankruptcy may allow Fairpoint to cut too high wages

said by FFH:

Maybe with the bankruptcy filing they can abrogate the union contracts and pay the union workers what they are worth - about half of what they were getting paid.
You sir, obviously have no idea what they are worth....do you? You're just being an armchair quarterback, with no inkling of what the job entails, or the procedures followed. Have you ever had to climb up a power pole with all the hazards involved, to restore someone's lifeline? Hmmmmm. So you're telling me that their salaries should be cut from base pay around $55-$60K/year (not counting OT), to around $30K/yr? And you still want me to get up at two in the morning, in the middle of a storm, and come fix your phone? Laughable! Luckily, you don't dictate what I can make in a year to feed/take care of my family of 4.

Buttset

join:2001-11-12
Ladson, SC

Re: Bankruptcy may allow Fairpoint to cut too high wages

...Amen.

Don't know what line of work GOLFnSUN is in, but golf and sun probably sums it up!

If he's in some kind of business (other than government) it only takes a little while to realize that by cutting wages & benefits of the people who MAY use or buy his products or services won 't be able to after the cuts. The knife cuts boths ways....
viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25
said by Icon:

said by FFH:

Maybe with the bankruptcy filing they can abrogate the union contracts and pay the union workers what they are worth - about half of what they were getting paid.
You sir, obviously have no idea what they are worth....do you? You're just being an armchair quarterback, with no inkling of what the job entails, or the procedures followed. Have you ever had to climb up a power pole with all the hazards involved, to restore someone's lifeline? Hmmmmm. So you're telling me that their salaries should be cut from base pay around $55-$60K/year (not counting OT), to around $30K/yr? And you still want me to get up at two in the morning, in the middle of a storm, and come fix your phone? Laughable! Luckily, you don't dictate what I can make in a year to feed/take care of my family of 4.
QFT!
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
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That's why they call it overtime.

Also, I'm not quite sure where you get the $55-$60 number. If you're working 40-hour weeks and such that's reasonable, though about 50% higher than what equivalent cable techs get, and A LOT higher than what much of the population gets at this point.

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Time Keeper
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join:2004-01-07
Little Rock, AR
kudos:3

1 recommendation

Re: Bankruptcy may allow Fairpoint to cut too high wages

said by iansltx:

That's why they call it overtime.

Also, I'm not quite sure where you get the $55-$60 number. If you're working 40-hour weeks and such that's reasonable, though about 50% higher than what equivalent cable techs get, and A LOT higher than what much of the population gets at this point.
And your point is?? The base pay numbers I gave are 100% accurate across the industry, for a top craft Install/Repair Technician. That does not include OT, which can raise that number significantly, depending on many factors.

And what does it matter that it's higher pay than CATV? I used to work in CATV myself, and guess what, I made the move to telco many years ago because they pay better. It's not the same work, just like my line of work isn't the same as the Powerco's....and they make even more money than I do on average.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
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Re: Bankruptcy may allow Fairpoint to cut too high wages

Granted. However times are a-changing and I'd think that people would rather accept a pay cut than be unemployed entirely when push comes to shove. That said, I think head execs are paid too much and should be the first to take a cut.,

About the whole union thing, look where the (union-rich) GM is now. On government-financed life suport. No thanks.

Harddrive
Proud American and Infidel since 1968.
Premium
join:2000-09-20
DFW
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Re: Bankruptcy may allow Fairpoint to cut too high wages

you don't blame the Union for upper-management's mis-management.
the union workers were told to keep assembling the cars as long as the cars kept coming down the assembly line, which they did.
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iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: Bankruptcy may allow Fairpoint to cut too high wages

When union semi-skilled labor makes more per hour than your typical college graduate from an engineering program (petroleum engineers excepted, lucky sons of guns) there just might be a problem.

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Time Keeper
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join:2004-01-07
Little Rock, AR
kudos:3

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Re: Bankruptcy may allow Fairpoint to cut too high wages

This is total crap. Who are you to try and dictate what a job title is to pay? And why in the world should a college graduate with whatever kind of degree, and no practical work experience, make more than a seasoned, skilled, top craft technician, who knows all the ins and outs of the daily job? A college graduate has zero real world experience, unless they've participated in a co-op program, in which the pay is sometimes decent, sometimes not. Your comparisons make no sense.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
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Re: Bankruptcy may allow Fairpoint to cut too high wages

Okay, what's the starting pay for a union technician in an auto plant?

As far as making no sense, I'm not taking about an English major here.Any good engineering school gets their studnets out into the field for at least some real-world experience, and models their classes around real-world situations.

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Time Keeper
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join:2004-01-07
Little Rock, AR
kudos:3

Re: Bankruptcy may allow Fairpoint to cut too high wages

Being I'm not an auto worker, I have no idea what the starting pay is. And it doesn't matter either, as to how it compares to an entry-level engineering gig. Guess what, the student/engineer has the freedom to choose what path they want to walk, and that includes the payscales that come with the associated jobs...right?

Your comparison was that a freshly graduated engineering student didn't make as much money as a union employed technician. Who cares? Do you know for certain that it's always that way? Guess what, there are union engineering jobs as well! Quit union bashing already....it's a dead horse. I'm not all pro union, and I'm not all anti-union...there are good and bad. But it's where I am now, so I roll with the punches.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: Bankruptcy may allow Fairpoint to cut too high wages

Fair enough.

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Time Keeper
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Little Rock, AR
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Re: Bankruptcy may allow Fairpoint to cut too high wages

The benefit differences probably aren't much actually. Maybe cheaper insurance premiums, but probably not by much. Maybe more/different days off, stuff like that.

Harddrive
Proud American and Infidel since 1968.
Premium
join:2000-09-20
DFW
kudos:2
i have no idea about starting pay for a UAW. i googled and found out that the average hourly pay for either a Union Auto Worker or a non-Union Auto Worker is around $30.
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iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: Bankruptcy may allow Fairpoint to cut too high wages

Wonder what the benefit differences are between union and non=union.
WhatNow
Premium
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
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Re: Bankruptcy may allow Fairpoint to cut too high wages

When top management screws up they get retention bonuses and the workers at the bottom get laid off. I have worked for Union and non Union companies and guess what they are about the same except I would say the Union workers tend to be smarter. Maybe you get what you pay for.

The reason the American Car companies have problems is they have retirees the foreign company have not been here long enough. I guess when you reach retirement age they should just kill you so you will not be a drain on the economy. It still comes down to management are the ones making the decisions. The reason some people hate Unions because of they think they don't work is because management is not doing their job.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
said by iansltx:

As far as making no sense, I'm not taking about an English major here.Any good engineering school gets their studnets out into the field for at least some real-world experience, and models their classes around real-world situations.
Nope. A professor in engineering I spoke with said something along the lines of, we don't give you hands on experience, we don't teach you any physical tools, or machines, or protocols or standards, those things are transient, theory, formulas and book learning last forever, and your employer will be the one to give you job specific training on their equipment and their way of doing stuff and their rules, not us, we want our graduates to be flexible, not be homeless when the system they learned to work on is retired and obsolete after a few years.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: Bankruptcy may allow Fairpoint to cut too high wages

Which school was that?
qworster

join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA
Reviews:
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2 edits

1 recommendation

I can't BELIEVE how pro-big business, anti worker so many of you are here! What has corporate america given YOU for you to become their shills?

The unions PREDICTED EVERYTHING that happened. They sounded the alarm YEARS AGO! Now, instead of agreeing that history proved them fight, you all are supporting Fairport and blaming THEM?

I'd like to know what you are taking-stupid pills or are you getting stupid injections?

Let me say this again!

BIG BUSINESS IS NOT YOUR FRIEND!!! THEY WILL SCREW YOU OVER FOR A QUARTER!!!!

GOT IT???

Z80
1 point 77
Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika

1 recommendation

Verizon was free to say no to those contracts if they thought they were getting screwed.

The workers are worth was Verizon was willing to pay them, which is their current contract. If they were worth half, Verizon wouldn't have paid a penny more than half.

Harddrive
Proud American and Infidel since 1968.
Premium
join:2000-09-20
DFW
kudos:2
you sir are uneducated on this topic when it comes to labor costs for a telco. let me help you understand it.

the Verizon techs in New England make right around $35 per hour. between that and the costs of 'supporting' these techs with a vehicle, tools, laptop, cell phone, etc... this becomes a rate of about $90 per hour to have a tech 'on the road' for 8 hours per day. that cost is called a 'loaded rate' and it only applies during the 8 working hours. the 'loaded rate' for a tech outside of those hours goes way down because all the support is figured in on an 8 hour day/40 hour week.
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I've come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass and i'm all outta bubblegum.