bdouble
join:2009-10-28
Brooklyn, NY
| Cross-post: TWC Disabling WiFi Routers in NYC/Brooklyn!!!
Hi - someone on the Time Warner Cable forum suggested I cross-post this here.
Basically, my linksys/dd-wrt router is not serviced by DHCP from TWC/Road Runner's modem/network when I do not have MAC address spoofing turned on. If I leave the router giving out its native MAC, it never gets an address and I can't set up static routes either. If I set the router up to spoof the MAC, it works fine. I've powercycled the modem etc. and this behavior is reliable and easily reproducible.
More details here:
»[TWC] TWC Disabling WiFi Routers in NYC/Brooklyn!!!
The support techs deny that this is possible and generally try to get me off the phone with "we don't support 3rd party routers, sorry - it works without the router in between, bye!"
Any one else experience something similar? |
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Racerbob
join:2001-06-24
Webster, NY | Do you have access to another router that you can try in place of the one that you normally use ? That would be a good test, wouldn't it ? |
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bdouble
join:2009-10-28
Brooklyn, NY
| I have an unmodified linksys voip router that doesn't have wifi. This also works, I'm posting this using it now.
I suppose it's an overreaction to say that they're blocking wifi routers in general. What they are doing is blocking the MAC of one of my routers.
Here's an example of Comcast (maybe inadvertently) doing something very similar, also re: running DD-WRT. I found my issue, apparently.
»www.automaticable.com/2008-03-30···-dd-wrt/ |
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Steve Mehs
Go Sabres
join:2005-07-16 | Did you try reloading the OEM Linksys firmware to see if that works on your WRT54G?
This is one of the risks you assume by using third party firmware. |
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bdouble
join:2009-10-28
Brooklyn, NY
| I could load the OEM firmware, but no need - DD-WRT can happily spoof the MAC address and it all works fine when I do. It has many other advantages over the stock firmware, so I'd rather keep it running!
This situation has taught me a bit about the company I'm paying for Internet service. TWC/RR are definitely intentionally disabling their network with certain devices they don't like. See this thread, where they're blocking ooma VOIP routers. They want you to buy VOIP from them and them only:
»www.ooma.com/forums/viewtopic.ph···&start=0
I find this to be poor customer service. Sure, it's their network, they can block all the devices they want - but, they will not admit what they're doing and certainly don't tell potential customers about it upfront. This policy sucks, and they lost a customer over it. While I have a workaround in place in spite of their rules, I'm going to find another Internet provider who is more open. |
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Steve Mehs
Go Sabres
join:2005-07-16 | Do you realize if this were true there'd be posts all over sites like this? This is nothing more then a conspiracy theory. |
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RR User
@rr.com
| reply to bdouble
said by bdouble  :TWC/RR are definitely intentionally disabling their network with certain devices they don't like. Definitely????
intentionally???
disabling their network???
devices they don't like???
You're assuming ALOT that isn't proven.
There are dozens of reasons why this problem could happen, none of them intentional, many of them not caused by TWC. |
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Beachie
Stranded in paradise
join:2001-07-12
St. Pete, FL | reply to bdouble
Absolute rubbish. You've said it works without your router and if you clone the MAC address in your router. Do you see the common denominator? |
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bdouble
join:2009-10-28
Brooklyn, NY
| I'm surprised at the hostility here.
I took the router to a friend's house with TWC/RR (also in Brooklyn, about a mile from me), and another who has Optimum Online out on Long Island. Default Linksys/DD-WRT configuration with un-spoofed MAC address worked fine on Optimum, but not on TWC/RR. Turn on the MAC spoofing and left everything else the same - router magically works on TWC/RR after a modem powercycle to clear out the MAC address cache the modem keeps. MAC spoofing also works on Optimum, of course. On bringing it back home, behavior didn't change - I have to set it to spoof the MAC to pick up DHCP on TWC/RR.
It's clear enough to me that it's not me, nor the gear. Also, I didn't have to do this for 2+ years with the same router, config, and cable connection - it suddenly just stopped working one day. After testing the router on three different networks, the behavior is readily and reliably repeatable.
I probably jump the gun in assuming it's intentional and/or with specific purpose. Call me crazy for questioning globo-corp motives. However, TWC/RR is, for whatever reason, blocking DHCP service to the native MAC address range that DD-WRT firmware uses - period, end of story. If you feel otherwise please go ahead and explain the behavior I am observing. Or just bash me as some sort of idiot, whatever makes you happy.
Would be very interested in others running DD-WRT on TWC/RR, do you have the same experience? Maybe it's a regional thing? |
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bdouble
join:2009-10-28
Brooklyn, NY | Also - just flashed my other linksys with DD-WRT. Same behavior. |
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WSHARK
@rr.com | reply to bdouble
I have DD-WRT in Columbus, Ohio and there is no problems. You need to leave the modem unplugged for about 10 minutes or so. Then plug the modem in, once it is online, then plug in the router. |
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DrDrew
join:2009-01-28
Apple Valley, CA
| reply to bdouble
Are you getting a NACK from the DHCP server when using the Linksys MAC addresses? What response is the Linksys router getting from the DHCP server when using the Linksys MAC address?
If you connect the modem direct to the NIC (assuming it's not a Linksys NIC) and spoof the NIC MAC with a Linksys MAC address does that work? |
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DrDrew
join:2009-01-28
Apple Valley, CA
| reply to bdouble
BTW, the OEM firmware allows MAC cloning, so there is no need for DD-WRT to be installed:
»linksys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/lin···qid=3686 |
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Rombus
Premium
join:2007-04-11
Columbus, OH
| reply to bdouble
said by bdouble :I probably jump the gun in assuming it's intentional and/or with specific purpose. Call me crazy for questioning globo-corp motives. However, TWC/RR is, for whatever reason, blocking DHCP service to the native MAC address range that DD-WRT firmware uses - period, end of story. If you feel otherwise please go ahead and explain the behavior I am observing. Or just bash me as some sort of idiot, whatever makes you happy. Would be very interested in others running DD-WRT on TWC/RR, do you have the same experience? Maybe it's a regional thing? I don't understand what you mean when you say "native MAC address MAC address range that dd-wrt uses" it should be using the native MAC of the router, It should not be changing the MAC unless your spoofing. Heck, maybe someone decided to spoof your MAC and thats why it does not work on TWC.
In any case, i use DD-WRT un spoofed on a TWC connection in TWC Mid Ohio and it works fine. |
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sivran
Long Live The Suite
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
clubs:
 ·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | reply to bdouble
Uh, what?
Is this not... normal, when the lease time has not expired or the IP released beforehand?
I think you might be misunderstanding normal behavior here.
My WRT54G spoofs the MAC of my old BEFSR41, I can cripple my own router in the same way by disabling spoofing. Or I can slap the BEFSR41 on without any spoofing at all.
When the DHCP server receives a request for an IP, it compares the MAC address of the host and requested IP* against its client list. (Router says, "Hi, I just came back online, I had abcd IP before, can I still have it?") If the MAC does not match up, the request is denied. (DHCP server finds that abcd was last issued to a different host and the lease time has not yet expired, and thus replies "Nope, can't have it.")
If however the IP address is released before switching devices (or changing the spoofing setting) then the DHCP server should happily hand out an IP address to the new device (or new address on the same device, but the server doesn't know that).
From reading what you've written here, this is the impression I get. If you've left out some crucial details for some strange reason, then I may be way off base, but then so are you for leaving out said details. 
In short, spoof it and forget it. It doesn't matter anyway.
* - note it might also be comparing both modem and router MACs against a list, but since normal behavior is for a host to request its previous IP address back regardless of what its MAC address is, it'd be mighty simple to base decisions on that.
--
In dadkins' memory, Think outside the Fox... |
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bdouble
join:2009-10-28
Brooklyn, NY
| You can use different devices (with different DHCP addresses) on the same connection, you just have to power cycle the modem. It has a MAC cache and won't serve a MAC address that is different than the one it has stored - which is easily fixed by the power cycle.
DrDrew, I am not sure how to inspect the DHCP session to see if I'm getting a NACK. I don't have a tap around or anything like that...
The linksys with DD-WRT reports an IP address of 0.0.0.0 and an inactive connection after a few seconds of its being connected, without the spoofing. And yea, you can spoof with the stock firmware but DD-WRT has a lot of other great features that make it well worth the upgrade... |
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fivealive
join:2009-11-30
Brooklyn, NY
| reply to bdouble
BDouble is absolutely correct, and this problem is widespread in the NYC area. The DHCP behavior he describes is repeatable. Their tech support will not reactivate DHCP until they sense that an appropriate NIC is attached, which is why they ask you to unplug all routers and plug your PC in directly.
I know this is a fact because I know a customer representative who told me that this is done. TWC has a master MAC lookup table which references any MAC to a NIC model number. They will selectively filter out unapproved wireless devices and black them out. He said that MAC spoofing gets around this measure everytime. |
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TWCdude
join:2006-04-28
San Antonio, TX
| reply to bdouble
This is news to me. I work tier 3 in the Texas region and I have never heard of being forced to use a registered mac address. It would be too much trouble to keep a list of macs. I do know the modems will keep a memory of the mac of the first device hooked up to it and wont allow anything else to connect to it, but a simple modem reboot will flush the memory and your good to put a new device to the modem. It has been this way for years. As for the reps asking to remove the router its standard practice to do that for one its much easier to troubleshoot the issue with our tools with a pc behind the modem. I can tell in 30 seconds if a problem is the network or the pc. I personally use a linksys wrt54g v2 router with dd-wrt and I have had zero problems with it. |
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sivran
Long Live The Suite
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Interesting. I never noticed that all I had to do was power cycle the modem to swap routers. Oh well, they both report the same MAC address now anyway, but I'll have to remember that next time I have to reset the cloned one.
Though, as a former tech support rep -- your tools suck. The only time I removed a router from a caller's setup was when I suspected it of misbehaving.
--
In dadkins' memory, Think outside the Fox... |
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