Topic 'firearms' in forum 'General Questions'

Topic 'firearms' in forum 'General Questions' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/firearms-23273371 en Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:56:55 EDT Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:56:55 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23295639
Edit: Well, looking into it further, it seems that American Tactical Imports signed a settlement with H&K, ending the production and importation of the GSG-5's "forever". »www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?···count=16

That sucks!

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Don't worry, scrote. There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick-ass lives.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23295639 Thu, 05 Nov 2009 10:42:59 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23295571 --
Don't worry, scrote. There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick-ass lives.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23295571 Thu, 05 Nov 2009 10:33:12 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23295523 said by Axekick:

Sounds like you have made a thoughtful and wise decision that I hope works out well for you and your family.

A decent alarm would not simply emit an audible alarm but should automatically summons the police to your residence. (The proper breed of dog would notify you of an intruder prior to their attempting to enter your home.)

I always believed burglars primarily returned to a home if they were scared off and had not finished searching for valuables. In your scenario, I doubt they would return but really do not know enough of the details to give an opinion, nor am I an expert.

Guns are very dangerous and I cringe anytime someone talks about getting one for self defense unless they have had extensive experience with them already. But peace of mind and a sense of security is necessary for a happy environment so I do hope that everything works out well for you and your family.

Good luck.
The ones that are most outspoken in their go see a professional and do not ask here seem to me to be the most dangerous. They buy the biggest or prettiest firearms. Only the best to protect themselves. They make their self defense how great firearms are be known to all. Don't listen hear soon you will be one of us and enjoy your new precious.
I know personally two people sitting in jail for self defense with the same attitude.
They collected and used only the best and highest most stopping power weapons. How great guns are. One macho guy feeling threatened by someone smaller felt threatened by the unarmed guy as he was backing off from the drawn weapon. He still shot him in the face. I protected myself I was self defense. Not good enough the unarmed guy was backing off. The gun had done its protecting duty. Now he had to use his pride and joy. He was king of the world. Finally a chance to shoot it for real. Another a sort of fight. Drew weapon on the other unarmed person and multiple rounds into everyone nearby. The more people post pictures of their precious toys and saying I am going hunting with this new fully auto rifle the more scared I get.
The ones that actually use them for self defense you never hear them talk unless you ask. Then it is not about their precious toys. Just what works.
Some seem to not be able to wait for the first time they get to really use their toy. Unlike a true hunting rifle you can use in hunting season a precious toy just sits and waits. I bet some just can not wait to use their precious toys.
Normal people have one for each to carry and maybe one for the home. You never hear them talk about how great their gun is. They practice and are safe. Thing is you would never suspect they have one. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23295523 Thu, 05 Nov 2009 10:26:12 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23294778
A decent alarm would not simply emit an audible alarm but should automatically summons the police to your residence. (The proper breed of dog would notify you of an intruder prior to their attempting to enter your home.)

I always believed burglars primarily returned to a home if they were scared off and had not finished searching for valuables. In your scenario, I doubt they would return but really do not know enough of the details to give an opinion, nor am I an expert.

Guns are very dangerous and I cringe anytime someone talks about getting one for self defense unless they have had extensive experience with them already. But peace of mind and a sense of security is necessary for a happy environment so I do hope that everything works out well for you and your family.

Good luck.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23294778 Thu, 05 Nov 2009 06:27:49 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23293023
For the money, I'd rather have an AR in 22
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tight lines and screaming reels]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23293023 Wed, 04 Nov 2009 20:12:36 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23292801 said by IT Guy:

Sure it's just .22, but I love target shooting with .22
I had one of these silenced, pneumatic pre-charged air guns for awhile. It's pressurized using a scuba tank.

It was a lot of fun. I made a little trap out of 1/4" steel and could sit in the backyard target practicing. The silencer made it very quite. It was fun to fine-tune my marksmanship (self-control) without making a trip to the range, and using something more realistic than a BB gun.

Not sure what the laws are in different areas. I didn't read the actual law here, but heard that it's legal to fire an air-gun in the backyard here as long as you don't fire over the fence, and don't shoot birds.

Mark]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23292801 Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:38:32 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23292269 said by DarkSithPro:

said by Lazlow:

amigo_boy

I think you are forgetting about 10mm and short & wimpy(S&W40). 10mm's shoot .40 just fine. The same goes for a ton of the other cartridges for automatics(not just revolvers). The same goes for stopping power. Very few people who understand firearms would consider 10mm or 45 auto to be lower power ammo (both are available in low and high capacity form factors). Glock makes 10mm and 45s too.

The FBI dropped that round "10mm" because it didn't meet the requirements of the FBI. The round had too much kick, and the frame was too large to be practical replacement for the 9mm. This was due to the FBI shootout where the .38 did not perform. Look at most LEO agencies in the U.S. Most of them carry .40 caliber now. The North Hollywood shootout was pretty much the start of when a lot of local agencies started switching to larger calibers.
I love my Sig Arms P229 .40 S&W, accurate, powerful and fun to shoot although it is pretty heavy. I know it is popular with Federal law enforcement, I see a lot of Border Patrol agents carrying them.

I think this is going to be my next purchase: »demigodllc.com/articles/gsg-5-mp···-lr/?p=5

Sure it's just .22, but I love target shooting with .22
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Don't worry, scrote. There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick-ass lives.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23292269 Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:14 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23283498 said by lagged:

I trust my life to my 1911 every day. Nothing wrong with it at all.

"Of course the 1911 is an outdated design. It came from an era when weapons were designed to win fights, not to avoid product liability lawsuits. It came from an era where it was the norm to learn how your weapon operated and to practice that operation until it became second nature, not to design the piece to the lowest common denominator. It came from an era in which our country tried to supply its fighting men with the best tools possible, unlike today, when our fighting men and women are issued hardware that was adopted because of international deal-making or the fact that the factory is in some well-connected congressman's district. Yes, beyond any shadow of a doubt, the 1911 IS an outdated design....and that's exactly what I love about it."
Rosco S. Benson
I used to hate the 1911. Outdated, quirky, problematic...you name it. Until I bought one and found out how wrong I was.

My 1911 has one glaring problem. It's appetite.
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Go fishing in southwest Florida.
»www.viciousstrikes.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23283498 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:48:42 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23283463 said by amigo_boy:

said by lagged:

I trust my life to my 1911 every day. Nothing wrong with it at all.

I like the .45 round. It's low enough velocity to be a good home-defense round. (A couple sheets of drywall will slow it down.). Good knockdown power. But, I was never very good with it unless I practiced 1-2 times a month.

I carried "Officer's Model" (compact version of the 1911) for 2-3 years in the '90s. When I actively practiced I was really good with it. But, when I lost interest, I was no good. It had too much recoil for me to just pick it up and use it. For occasional use I did better with a .38 revolver or .40 Glock.

.380's a strange round. Being smaller you'd think it would be easier to shoot. But, every .380 gun I've fired (Makarov, CZ, AMT) it stings the palm of my hand like hitting a baseball bat against a metal post. Some .380 guns are good for concealability, but not fun to shoot.

Mark
Try the Bersa .380. I bought one for the wife to shoot and I love to shoot that thing. Shoot it all day...
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Go fishing in southwest Florida.
»www.viciousstrikes.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23283463 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:41:22 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23283111 said by JukeBoxHero:

Get one of these. [att=1]

Or get one of these.[att=2]

Either one will scare away the bad guys.
the signs just tell the thief what tools he'll need to disable a particular alarm!
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23283111 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 07:48:16 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282473 said by ixNay:

Sig Sauer P229 for ex. (shoots a .40 and .357) while using the same magz.
Just to clarify for the OP, that's a special (relatively new) .357 cartridge designed for semi-autos. Not the traditional revolver .357.

And, the warning about mixing calibers is for semi-autos. It's perfectly safe to shoot .38 in a .357 revolver (but not vice versa).

Mark]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282473 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:17:26 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282455 said by lagged:

YOU CANNOT SHOOT .40 IN A 10 MM OR 380 IN A 9MM IN A SEMI AUTO. IF YOU DO YOU ARE IN SERIOUS DANGER!

Almost every semi auto headspaces off of the case mouth. Shoot a shorter round in these and KABOOM. Revolver's are different and most can shoot shorter rounds in the same caliber.

This is exactly why this forum is almost the worst one to come to for gun advice.
Lagged is absolutely correct! Although the 2 rounds share size in diameter the length and loads are different. If you want to shoot different calibers with the same handgun, then get a gun that allows you to swap out barrels from one caliber to another. Sig Sauer P229 for ex. (shoots a .40 and .357) while using the same magz.

*NOTE*
Agreed with removed and lagged. Do not come here asking for advice on firearms. This is not the place! Find a professional who specializes in firearms and get some advice and more importantly hands on training. Good Luck!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282455 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:13:26 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282338 said by lagged:

YOU CANNOT SHOOT .40 IN A 10 MM OR 380 IN A 9MM IN A SEMI AUTO. IF YOU DO YOU ARE IN SERIOUS DANGER!
...
This is exactly why this forum is almost the worst one to come to for gun advice.
It seems like there's been a lot of good advice until "Lazlow's" comment that semi-autos will shoot multiple calibers.

Mark]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282338 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:44:08 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282320
Almost every semi auto headspaces off of the case mouth. Shoot a shorter round in these and KABOOM. Revolver's are different and most can shoot shorter rounds in the same caliber.

This is exactly why this forum is almost the worst one to come to for gun advice.
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tight lines and screaming reels]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282320 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:40:05 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282263 said by DarkSithPro:

To opine on this, from firing .38 snub nose "which I'm sure he would get" it's a very uncomfortable gun to fire, Not as uncomfortable as .380s I've shot (which is more comparable to a snub nose revolver). In both cases it's due to the mass of the gun.

And, comfort is more a consideration for someone who will regularly shoot as a hobby, not for home defense.

said by DarkSithPro:

not to mention is poor accuracy, and gunk that you can taste after you fire. Now take a Glock 17 with it's 5 inch barrel. A much more accurate weapon, with much better ergonomics.

If I were going to compare a revolver to a full-size Glock 17, I'd compare a 6" barrel (not a 2" snub-nose). The comfort and accuracy are roughly equivalent. And, it's more reliable for the inactive (single-purpose) shooter.

Less capacity. But, safer due to the double action (instead of Glock's unusual action with a "safety" built into the trigger). And, potentially more accurate when the shooter cocks the hammer to fire in single action mode (although, less safe at that point).

Every individual's requirements, preferences, capabilities are different. Revolvers and semis have their own positives and negatives.

Mark]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282263 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:28:15 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282234 said by Lazlow:

amigo_boy

I think you are forgetting about 10mm and short & wimpy(S&W40). 10mm's shoot .40 just fine. The same goes for a ton of the other cartridges for automatics(not just revolvers). The same goes for stopping power. Very few people who understand firearms would consider 10mm or 45 auto to be lower power ammo (both are available in low and high capacity form factors). Glock makes 10mm and 45s too.
The FBI dropped that round "10mm" because it didn't meet the requirements of the FBI. The round had too much kick, and the frame was too large to be practical replacement for the 9mm. This was due to the FBI shootout where the .38 did not perform. Look at most LEO agencies in the U.S. Most of them carry .40 caliber now. The North Hollywood shootout was pretty much the start of when a lot of local agencies started switching to larger calibers. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282234 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:20:23 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282231 said by Lazlow:

I think you are forgetting about 10mm and short & wimpy(S&W40). 10mm's shoot .40 just fine. The same goes for a ton of the other cartridges for automatics(not just revolvers). Thanks. I wasn't aware that you could shoot .40 cal in a 10mm semi-auto. Isn't there a problem with the .40 ammo being loose (front to back) in the magazine? (Like, trying to shoot .380 in a 9mm?).

What are the ton of other semi-auto calibers you can do that with? I've never heard of this.

said by Lazlow:

The same goes for stopping power. Very few people who understand firearms would consider 10mm or 45 auto to be lower power ammo (both are available in low and high capacity form factors). Glock makes 10mm and 45s too.

It seems like you're mixing 3 different thoughts in that sentence. Stopping power, power, and capacity.

I agree that a .45 has great stopping power. I like the round. I'm just not good with it unless I practice regularly. But, it's not a high-powered round. It's low velocity.

I agree that you can get high-capacity .45 semi-autos. Bulkier than smaller calibers. Less capacity compared to smaller calibers. But, in some cases, for some individuals, it may be a good choice.

Mark]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282231 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:19:35 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282208 said by amigo_boy:

said by DarkSithPro:

In all honestly a decent Semi-Automatic handgun which is properly maintained ...

It's the "properly maintained" part that leaves a little to be desired. For someone who won't be such an enthusiast as to clean their gun often, or go to the range to fire it, a revolver is 100% reliable.

Semi-autos suffer from picking up gunk which can impede their mechanical operation. And, magazine springs can fade over time. Rounds in the magazine can pick up gunk and not feed properly. You never know if your choice of ammo will feed without taking the time to fire a few at the range.

Semi-autos are great for enthusiasts willing to put the time into cleaning and practicing with their weapon. I used to use semi-autos exclusively.

But, for someone trying to keep their job by putting in extra hours, or working a second job to keep their house, the last thing they need is the drama that comes with semi-autos. A revolver gets the job done, even after letting it sit 10 years. No doubts about whether it will work. No pressure to clean it, or go to the range and make sure it still fires (that the mag spring hasn't faded).

Every type of firearm (and caliber) has its positives and negatives. The worst advice is to imply that one person's choice is the best one. It's only best for that person (or anyone else with exactly that person's circumstances).

Mark
To opine on this, from firing .38 snub nose "which I'm sure he would get" it's a very uncomfortable gun to fire, not to mention is poor accuracy, and gunk that you can taste after you fire. Now take a Glock 17 with it's 5 inch barrel. A much more accurate weapon, with much better ergonomics. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282208 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:14:25 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282204
I think you are forgetting about 10mm and short & wimpy(S&W40). 10mm's shoot .40 just fine. The same goes for a ton of the other cartridges for automatics(not just revolvers). The same goes for stopping power. Very few people who understand firearms would consider 10mm or 45 auto to be lower power ammo (both are available in low and high capacity form factors). Glock makes 10mm and 45s too. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282204 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:13:31 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282167 said by DarkSithPro:

In all honestly a decent Semi-Automatic handgun which is properly maintained ...
It's the "properly maintained" part that leaves a little to be desired. For someone who won't be such an enthusiast as to clean their gun often, or go to the range to fire it, a revolver is 100% reliable.

Semi-autos suffer from picking up gunk which can impede their mechanical operation. And, magazine springs can fade over time. Rounds in the magazine can pick up gunk and not feed properly. You never know if your choice of ammo will feed without taking the time to fire a few at the range.

Semi-autos are great for enthusiasts willing to put the time into cleaning and practicing with their weapon. I used to use semi-autos exclusively.

But, for someone trying to keep their job by putting in extra hours, or working a second job to keep their house, the last thing they need is the drama that comes with semi-autos. A revolver gets the job done, even after letting it sit 10 years. No doubts about whether it will work. No pressure to clean it, or go to the range and make sure it still fires (that the mag spring hasn't faded).

Every type of firearm (and caliber) has its positives and negatives. The worst advice is to imply that one person's choice is the best one. It's only best for that person (or anyone else with exactly that person's circumstances).

Mark]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282167 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:06:56 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282131 said by amigo_boy:

said by DarkSithPro:

If you get a Firearm then don't listen to all the peeps who say 357 magnum. That's way too much overkill for a defensive Firearm. I would suggest a 9mm, or a .40 caliber handgun,

If he's considering the reliability of a revolver, then a .38 would be the equivalent to the semi-auto calibers you mentioned.

The nice thing about a .357 revolver is that you can shoot .38 ammo too. Best of both worlds. Semi-autos don't have that flexibility.

A .357 might be a good choice for someone with skill. It's all about tradeoffs. Revolvers are more reliable, but don't have the capacity of a semi-auto. Example: I like to carry concealed a .357. More stopping power per round which is important considering I don't have 10-12 rounds of lower-power ammo to empty into a bad guy (like you do with your Glock). For me, each shot has to count.

Inside the house, where concerns about missed shots going into other rooms (or neighboring houses with a .357), a .38 might be the better tradeoff. Or, .357 using frangible ammo (Glasser or Magtech.).

I don't think there are any right or wrong answers. There are a lot of factors that are different for every individual. (Even the choice to use frangible ammo is complicated by climate. I'd use it in a warm climate like Phoenix. But, not Michigan, where there's greater chance of an intruder wearing a heavy jacket, which can reduce the performance of frangible ammo.)

Mark
In all honestly a decent Semi-Automatic handgun which is properly maintained will fire just fine. I dislike the .38 because it has less kinetic energy than a 9mm. His best bet would be a 9mm with a +p hollow point round. A good can of BreakFree to keep his auto lubricated, and it will be great.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282131 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:58:55 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282047 said by DarkSithPro:

If you get a Firearm then don't listen to all the peeps who say 357 magnum. That's way too much overkill for a defensive Firearm. I would suggest a 9mm, or a .40 caliber handgun,
If he's considering the reliability of a revolver, then a .38 would be the equivalent to the semi-auto calibers you mentioned.

The nice thing about a .357 revolver is that you can shoot .38 ammo too. Best of both worlds. Semi-autos don't have that flexibility.

A .357 might be a good choice for someone with skill. It's all about tradeoffs. Revolvers are more reliable, but don't have the capacity of a semi-auto. Example: I like to carry concealed a .357. More stopping power per round which is important considering I don't have 10-12 rounds of lower-power ammo to empty into a bad guy (like you do with your Glock). For me, each shot has to count.

Inside the house, where concerns about missed shots going into other rooms (or neighboring houses with a .357), a .38 might be the better tradeoff. Or, .357 using frangible ammo (Glasser or Magtech.).

I don't think there are any right or wrong answers. There are a lot of factors that are different for every individual. (Even the choice to use frangible ammo is complicated by climate. I'd use it in a warm climate like Phoenix. But, not Michigan, where there's greater chance of an intruder wearing a heavy jacket, which can reduce the performance of frangible ammo.)

Mark]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23282047 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:36:54 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23281985 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23281985 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:17:56 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23281671 said by swhx7:

but I guess a trigger lock would prevent the gun being used against us (?)
Trigger locks are clumsy to deal with. You have to keep the key handy (unless there are combination locks I'm not familiar with). Burglars can easily walk off with the gun, and drill out the lock.

Something like this would be good: »www.gunvault.com/ Just push the buttons and it pops open.[1]

You can mount it in a camouflaged location, such as inside a nightstand drawer with a faux drawer front (that hinges open, giving you access to the front of the safe).

If you want to get really secure, this biometric wall safe is a good choice: »www.dutchguard.com/biometric-gun···sec.html [2]

Trigger locks are good if you have kids and no gun safe.

It's a balance between accessibility and security. If you have no kids in the house, that gives you more flexibility. you can keep the gun in an accessible but secluded location. When you leave the house, move it to a more secure location (some place burglars wouldn't look). If kids are in the house, then trigger locks make sense -- at the expense of accessibility. Or, a finger-press safe if you can afford it. Otherwise, just in-home and away concealment locations.

I'm not a big fan of sleeping with a handgun under the pillow, or sitting on the nightstand. I think it should require a little effort to get it (like operating a finger-press safe) just to make sure you're really awake. I don't know about anyone else, but I've had a couple of episodes of "night terrors" where you're convinced you're awake, but can't move, and someone's in the house. When I finally woke up it seemed like the only thing that changed was that I could move. It took a few seconds to distinguish that everything up to that point was a dream. With a handgun too easy to access I could have gone in pursuit, not fully aware.

One other thing to consider about the choice between handgun and shotgun is that a shotgun is much more lethal. I hate to suggest to anyone that they should plan to have an accident. But, often shotguns are recommended to novices because it doesn't require much skill. The downside is that the unskilled are more prone to accidents, and a shotgun can cause devastating wounds.

A shotgun's great. It's like a personal Claymore mine. But, if I were going to accidentally shoot myself in the foot, I'd rather do it with a .38. At least I'd still have a foot. The same goes for accidentally shooting a family member.

So, that's something else to consider. Shotguns are definitely easier to use, require less aiming. Perfect for a defensive strategy, or a backup to the point person using a handgun. But, accidents are much worse. "Easy" shouldn't be confused with "safer."

[1] See also »www.amazon.com/HS10036684-2-Inch···_cp_hi_1
»www.walmart.com/catalog/product.···=2221464

[2] See also »www.amazon.com/Stack-PWS-1522-Wa···_cp_hi_2
»www.buyasafe.com/InvisiVault-p/s···ault.htm

Mark]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23281671 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:17:11 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23281444
My thought process after reading thru has been something like this.

A shotgun would be nearly ideal except for needing both hands at all times. In case of a gunpoint situation I'd like one hand free for a phone. As between revolver and semiauto, definitely revolver for simplicity. Something medium-caliber and using easily available ammunition (a popular caliber and type of round).

There's a possible scenario of an intruder getting to a gun first (burglary in afternoon, one of us returns home before the burglar leaves) - but I guess a trigger lock would prevent the gun being used against us (?)

Also, I am slightly reassured about the prospect of the same burglars returning, because the police identified their car and towed it - they had also been reported by a neighbor when they tried to break in nearby. Hopefully the car will have led to arrests.

But there are still other factors. We've decided to move, and a good quality gun would cost $400-600, vs. maybe less for an alarm subscription for the remaining months. And I think a loud alarm noise when a window or door is opened when we're not there would scare off any intruders. This solution is not ideal (nothing is), but would also avert any accidental-shooting scenarios. We can always change our minds later.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23281444 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:33:30 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23279423 said by keyboard5684:

But again, in this case, buy an alarm system. A screaming siren is designed to hurt your ears so bad that you just want to get out.
Another option is a "panic room." I read a few years ago about how people were installing steel doors at the hallway going to bedrooms. And/or a reinforced door in one bedroom. Instead of defending their property (and all the risk and responsibility that incurs), they opted for a safe(er) area to retreat and wait for the police.

That gets back to how I believe situational (shoot/don't shoot) training is important. It's amazing how many people (myself included) underestimate the effect a real-life confrontation can have on you. I guess we see it on teevee so much we think there's nothing to it. Some people go through the FATS simulator and decide that retreating to a secure room is the best choice. They don't want to go through all the emotions that occur in a real shooting scenario. It's not something you can guess what it's like, or how you'll respond (physiologically) until you go through it.

Mark]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23279423 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:13:23 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23279234
Yes, assault rifles are certainly powerful, the rounds will travel, and has its downsides... just like any gun. My overall point was that you should know how to use your weapon. I like my M1 Carbine assault rifle (short gun, about 30 rounds, rapid fire, etc.) because I can use it well. If you get a shotgun, or any gun, it sounds like when the OP has to use it that it will end up in "scared" shooting all over the place and a shotgun will go through walls or ricochet possibly injuring those who you are trying to protect.

I have been through the police academy for Pennsylvania and trained to be an officer. I have worked different units which does not matter. Military training as well. Take my advice for what it is... know what you are doing.

But if you have not owned a gun then get an alarm system. I have grown up with guns, hunted, and also been through training
on multiple situations you will get into. I personally would want to be able to fight close range, long range, a gang of 10 "thugs" with guns, or just get them to lay down. No matter what happens I want to be able to keep the family safe and also achieve the objective... taking the threat away. Full metal jacket M1 rounds are not loaded in the clip I keep for home defense... home made rounds are used with soft lead that will stop when it hits something.

But again, in this case, buy an alarm system. A screaming siren is designed to hurt your ears so bad that you just want to get out. They know when the alarm goes off that the cops are coming. They want easier targets and signs outside that says there is an alarm system will likely make them think about moving on to another house.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23279234 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:38:29 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23278893 said by The Pig:

Get a big nasty dog instead!
;)
Or a big nasty pig.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23278893 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 12:52:24 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23278787
There is no guarantee that -you- won't get shot.

Just saying...
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The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23278787 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 12:37:15 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23277913 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23277913 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 10:56:59 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23277944 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23277944 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 10:14:46 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23277746
The second suggestion is that you learn how to properly handle and fire ANY weapon you bring into your home. If you have children, they MUST be instructed professionaly as well. Kids who see guns in the house, and are only told to STAY AWAY from them, WILL take them out an play with them when you are away. Good luck, and feel free to PM me if you want to talk one on one about what your plan is.

HDMan
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The proper way to break in a Harley: Grab a fist full of throttle, and ride it like you stole it!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23277746 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 09:36:12 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23277245 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23277245 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 06:31:16 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23277039 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23277039 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 02:23:40 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276932 said by lagged:

Don't choose a .45 over a 357 just because it will only penetrate through 4 houses instead of 6.
A .45 wont penetrate 4 houses. It will barely penetrate one stucco wall.

I do agree that the best safeguard against misplaced bullets is training. But, the selection of bullets is a pragmatic factor. If you're trying to avoid misplaced bullets because of the potential harm they'll cause, then the fact that one bullet will penetrate 4 houses instead of 6 should be relevant. Two houses worth of unspent energy can make the difference between life and death.

Mark]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276932 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 01:09:16 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276923
Train, learn "safe" shooting allys in your house, and as with everything firearm related, know exacty wtf you are doing.
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tight lines and screaming reels]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276923 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 01:03:03 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276867 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276867 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 00:43:27 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276846 said by The Pig:

Get a big nasty dog instead!
;)
A firearm doesn't have to be taken out at 5am in the cold to use the bathroom. :)
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276846 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 00:32:50 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276842 said by swhx7:

After a burglary, we're feeling a lot less safe in this house. I'm considering buying a gun. So I'm wondering what kind is best. Or if you think this is a bad idea, please say why, exactly.
38 Revolver. at the time you need it you don't want to risk a jammed clip.
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276842 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 00:31:03 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276816 said by lagged:

For those concerned with over penetration, anything that will adequately penetrate a human will punch through all the walls in your house. You need to deal with it with training.
But, some ammo will penetrate walls with more power than others. For example, rifle rounds will have more residual energy than .357 handgun. A shotgun with deer slugs more than bird shot. A +P handgun ammo more than a lighter loads. Full metal jackets more than hollowpoints. Frangible ammo (like Glasser Safety Slugs or Magsafe) less than anything else.

I think the selection of caliber and type of ammo is an important factor when considering the risk to other occupants of the house (or other houses). I wouldn't want to be hit by a .45 passing through two sheets of drywall. But, if I had a choice between that and .357 Magnum, I'd take the .45 any day.

Mark]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276816 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 00:19:29 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276778
For those concerned with over penetration, anything that will adequately penetrate a human will punch through all the walls in your house. You need to deal with it with training.
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tight lines and screaming reels]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276778 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 00:06:38 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276744
A revolver "will always fire" where as a semi-automatic has a history of missfire.

Besides .. you only need "one shot" to get the job done.

Then again ..the best defense for home protection is a dog. I have an American Boxer. A wonderful family pet that would rip an intruder a new asshole to protect us..!
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Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy but they become legend.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276744 Sun, 01 Nov 2009 23:51:53 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276691
That's some of the worst advice for someone new to a gun, EVER! I own several AR-15s and that would be the every last gun I would grab if I ever needed one. The odds of hitting your intended target in a dark home are much lower and the odds of hitting an innocent party are much higher. I've shot many things with my AR-15s, including full dumpsters which do nothing to stop the rounds.

The very best thing someone new to a gun could do is buy a pump shotgun. The odds of hitting an innocent bystander are much lower, the sound of a pump shotgun is VERY intimidating. The idea of a gun for home defense or any defense situation is to remove the threat. Once the threat is removed you are no longer justified in shooting the intruder. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276691 Sun, 01 Nov 2009 23:31:12 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276677 said by lagged:

I trust my life to my 1911 every day. Nothing wrong with it at all.
I like the .45 round. It's low enough velocity to be a good home-defense round. (A couple sheets of drywall will slow it down.). Good knockdown power. But, I was never very good with it unless I practiced 1-2 times a month.

I carried "Officer's Model" (compact version of the 1911) for 2-3 years in the '90s. When I actively practiced I was really good with it. But, when I lost interest, I was no good. It had too much recoil for me to just pick it up and use it. For occasional use I did better with a .38 revolver or .40 Glock.

.380's a strange round. Being smaller you'd think it would be easier to shoot. But, every .380 gun I've fired (Makarov, CZ, AMT) it stings the palm of my hand like hitting a baseball bat against a metal post. Some .380 guns are good for concealability, but not fun to shoot.

Mark]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276677 Sun, 01 Nov 2009 23:28:06 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276501
"Of course the 1911 is an outdated design. It came from an era when weapons were designed to win fights, not to avoid product liability lawsuits. It came from an era where it was the norm to learn how your weapon operated and to practice that operation until it became second nature, not to design the piece to the lowest common denominator. It came from an era in which our country tried to supply its fighting men with the best tools possible, unlike today, when our fighting men and women are issued hardware that was adopted because of international deal-making or the fact that the factory is in some well-connected congressman's district. Yes, beyond any shadow of a doubt, the 1911 IS an outdated design....and that's exactly what I love about it."
Rosco S. Benson
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tight lines and screaming reels]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276501 Sun, 01 Nov 2009 22:33:22 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276455 said by Axekick:

For home protection unless you are highly skilled and trained I would recommend a shotgun over a pistol.
I recommended a shotgun too. But, after I posted I thought about one deficiency: It's not as easy to secure, while still having easy access.

One nice thing about a handgun is that you can get those little finger-operated safes that bolt to a nightstand (or whatever). They'll hold a couple .38 revolvers.

Another thing is that a long gun (rifle or shotgun) isn't as nimble moving around the house. More for an attacker to grab onto and wrestle away. A handgun has the advantage of being harder to wrestle with. You can draw it up to your chest, as you move from door to door, room to room, peeking around corners, etc.

But, a shotgun is the ultimate defensive weapon, especially when your goal is to hold your ground (not clear a house).

If it were me, I'd do the revolvers in a finger-operated safe mounted to something near the bed. (One safe on each side?). And a shotgun secured in the closet somehow. (A full safe? Or, cable lock?).

Mark]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276455 Sun, 01 Nov 2009 22:21:49 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276440 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276440 Sun, 01 Nov 2009 22:17:27 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276409
First I would recommend a home security system as at least one other pointed out. I would also consider a dog if your family setting allows it.

I do commend you for seeking advice and admitting some degree of ignorance on the topic rather than buying on emotion which would inevitably create additional hazards for your home.

For home protection unless you are highly skilled and trained I would recommend a shotgun over a pistol. If you are confronted in your home spontaneously, while sleeping, or unprepared it is quite challenging to accurately aim and control a pistol. Nothing like shooting at a range under ideal circumstances and where you are mentally prepared to do so.

The choice of course is yours. If a pistol I would not over analyze the caliber anything in a .357, 9mm, .40 cal or .45 cal would be more than adequate with the correct ammunition.

There is pistol ammunition designed to fragment upon impact which maximizes tissue damage to an attacker while minimizing the penetrating power should you inadvertently shoot a wall as the round will shatter rather than penetrate.

You do need to research your decision thoroughly but for now I would advise taking some type of immediate steps to secure your home. Starting with securing their entry point, then surveillance system if feasible and then I would consider a gun if you still felt insecure.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276409 Sun, 01 Nov 2009 22:12:46 EDT Re: firearms http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276402
My choice is my M1 .32 Carbine. It is lightweight, great at about 20 yards, and what I love to shoot (which makes it the best weapon for me to fire as I am best at using that particular weapon). The M1 also is small enough to move around and big enough to scare the crap out of someone.

The .32 revolver I have I had some special rounds made. It was a suggestion of my Grandfather with light loads. The idea was that the rounds would hit hard enough but not travel too far.

Shotgun has so much "spray" that I would simply not like it, just a choice. If you are going to drop a human being, you need to make sure they are dropped.

A .22 will travel an amazing amount of space. I believe 2 miles if given the space. Anything is really going to have that effect. You are correct about a shotgun though, there is more "shot" but they are likely to be taken up in your walls.

I think an alarm system is the best. A gun really should just not be used unless you really are prepared to be in a gun battle. Many will shoot back especially if you put them in that kind of position where they feel they need to.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-firearms-23276402 Sun, 01 Nov 2009 22:11:29 EDT