Topic 'Onyone else on call 24/7 365?' in forum 'No, I Will Not Fix Your #@$!! Computer'

Topic 'Onyone else on call 24/7 365?' in forum 'No, I Will Not Fix Your #@$!! Computer' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23277009 en Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:18:28 EDT Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:18:28 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23347387
I wish I were still a network admin who was on call 24/7, then at least I would have some kind of control if and when things went down and I had to be called. I support several customers now that all use the same product. All the customers are within 100 miles of me, and some weeks things break several times a day/night everyday then I may not get a call for 1 to 2 days. I have to physically go on site each time. Very sensitive data, no remoteing in. I also have to meet SLA's so I have to be very careful to not wonder to far away from my area and make sure I have cell coverage. And yes never a weekend off at all. I get at least 5 calls each weekend, so I have to be engaged and waiting all year minus 20 days PTO. It sucks but hey at least I have a job and get to eat:)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23347387 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 08:28:17 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23313834 said by Thaler:

Personally, I shied away from going full time into IT. A career path where your job is just constant bitching and very little reward fulfillment just wasn't for me.

Course, it could've just been the feeling I got from my first IT worksite. All I ever heard was a long list of problems. When I solved something and saved the day and/or saved money, there was never a "thank you"...just more quibbling, or worse yet, people whining about repair factors that I couldn't control (ie. repairs not done faster than humanly possible, unfeasable solutions, not being able to psychically predict failures, etc.) Plus, having managers that didn't know one iota about IT and never had your back didn't help either.

My hats go off to those who can take that day-in, day-out with a smile.
It really is shameful that you think that IT is a job with constant bitching and little reward fulfillment. Name me any job that has that no matter where you work?

It all comes down to where you work at. Some places treat their employees like crap. Others treat their employees like gold. Some places the users are knowledgeable and kind. At others its nothing but negativity. Look at any job from management all the way down to a janitor, there are places that will have constant bitching and little reward fulfillment. Then there will be places that will treat their employees right.

My wife is a pharmacist and gets paid well to do her job. At one place she worked, the manager treated her like crap for various reasons. He used intimidation to hold her job over her head. Yet, she was working at a non profit because she believed in the cause of the non profit. She found a new job because of that moron. That isn't the profession's fault. Thats the fault of the company and the person involved.

I worked in a negative place for 6 months at one time, and I left not with a sour taste in my mouth from IT, but left wanting to find a place to work that was fun and challenging.

So you are right, the feeling you got from your IT worksite has clouded your judgement.
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My domain - Nightfall.net]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23313834 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 10:28:20 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23312717
Course, it could've just been the feeling I got from my first IT worksite. All I ever heard was a long list of problems. When I solved something and saved the day and/or saved money, there was never a "thank you"...just more quibbling, or worse yet, people whining about repair factors that I couldn't control (ie. repairs not done faster than humanly possible, unfeasable solutions, not being able to psychically predict failures, etc.) Plus, having managers that didn't know one iota about IT and never had your back didn't help either.

My hats go off to those who can take that day-in, day-out with a smile.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23312717 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 00:20:08 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23312690 said by Nightfall:

The way some IT departments are run these days are very sickening to me. Managers who don't know IT managing an IT department. People in IT who don't have the skills or experience in IT running systems they don't know how to support. The users getting substandard support. The list goes on and on.
You are soooo right. Too many times I hear people saying how they want to get into IT (probably because they see some perks like having administrative privileges) but don't realize there's more to IT than meets the eye. You have to be able to think on your feet when presented with a problem.

And yes, I personally experience an inept manager overseeing the help desk. The useless (I call him a spineless b*tch) piece of defecation got a promotion while the employees didn't get anything. As a Blackberry support person who learned it from the beginning when it was given to me, I acquired a lot of knowledge. I even tested two BBs and made recommendation. Of course, if I did something wrong that will be remembered :uhh:.
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Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian. Robert Orben
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23312690 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 00:09:06 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23302563
Such are the joys of working for a massive corporation! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23302563 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 14:30:40 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23294322 said by tankabbot5 :

I work for siemens IT solutions and my job requires me to be on call 24/7 365 minus PTO time. I have been doing this for a little over 3 years now. I never get a weekend off at all. Well, unless I take PTO time off. Anyway just wondering if anyone else is on call all year long too. I don't know anyone who is on call all year 24/7 like I am minus PTO or vacation time.
I work as a Network Administrator a non-profit organization. My normal hours are 9:00-4:30 Monday through Friday. If I'm there during the week anytime after that or before that, generally something is wrong. As for weekends...well I've had my share of 9:00 AM phone calls on a Saturday that I'd prefer to sleep in. However, you have to do what you have to do. I don't mind the job at all. Anytime I've ever gone beyond what was expected I have seemed to be compensated well. I managed to even get a raise after only three months of working there. Nothing huge but it was nice. I do get benefits such as comp time, vacation, personal time, sick time and bereavement. I'm in the process of using up some comp that I accrued from a overnight stay re-doing a domain controller, re-joining PC's to the domain and re-creating user accounts. I sure I hope I don't have to do that again. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23294322 Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:36:32 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23294257 said by drew:

IIUC, aren't Vz and Sprint both CDMA utilizing companies?

Sprint isn't awesome so much for their network, but that they don't charge for roaming data unless it's something over 30-50% (I think) of the entire data usage, and then they just think about terminating the contract.
Yeah, Vz and Sprint are CDMA (with EVDO for data) ATT and T Mobile are GSM with HSPDA (and not much in the case of T Mobile).
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CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23294257 Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:09:47 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23289512
Sprint isn't awesome so much for their network, but that they don't charge for roaming data unless it's something over 30-50% (I think) of the entire data usage, and then they just think about terminating the contract.
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Come play Mafia! | My Picture Blog]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23289512 Wed, 04 Nov 2009 10:28:44 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23288455 said by drew:

This.

I've always liked Sprint for a device. Their network seems solid, at least on the west coast.
Not sure about WA but Vz EVDO coverage is excellent down here in California, I travel essentially all over from the border to the SF bay.
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CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23288455 Wed, 04 Nov 2009 02:43:27 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23288444 said by nixen:

said by Nightfall:

said by nixen:

Or you aren't supporting customers that INSIST on using broken technology (*cough* SunCluster *cough*). Or insist on using unsupported storage and ignoring when they're told it's heading for a massive failure (nothing like, four months later, watching a million-dollar/day site go down for three days because they ignored you). Or having customers with root access on their hosted systems.

Thats what being well funded and having the skills is all about. If you have those two things, you should not be supporting broken technology or insist on using unsupported storage. If you have the skills, you should not have customers with root access on their hosted systems either.

Thanks for paying attention and your helpful input. However:

when one is in the SERVICES industry, you really don't have a freaking choice in the matter.
When one works in services corporations where the sales team dictates what customers can put in your data centers and get support on, you really don't have a freaking choice in the matter.
When one works in services corporations where "technically correct" is ignored in favor of the next sale, you don't really have a freaking choice in the matter

You can have all the freaking skills in the world. You can work in a rather well-funded corporation with global operations and Fortune 50 customers. However, when you're supporting OUTSIDE, paying customers, none of that makes a goddamned difference. Try it sometime. It's BOATLOADS of fun.

said by Nightfall:

Having the skills is one thing, but finding the right company is another. Many organizations out there see IT as a money sink.

Well, there's "IT" and then there's computer services (consulting, hosting, etc.) Services are a RADICALLY different animal than "IT". Very few people that see themselves as competent in the nice, safe coccoon of the "IT" world could either cut it (both be able to survive or be truly useful) in the services or high-end consulting world.

Now, if you weren't trying to be as pompous as what your post came across as, I'll pre-apologize for what felt like an appropriate tone with my response.
I hear that! When I worked for an ISP we had a customer that got an entire class-C blocked by our upstream for port scanning. When the customer refused to provide a reasonable answer as to what they were doing we continued to keep them offline, despite pressure from the sales team. The customer quit.
2 months after all of the technical team left in disgust the customer was turned back on. Guess what happened!
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CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23288444 Wed, 04 Nov 2009 02:35:05 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23287554 said by Loco:

I'm an Automation Engineer for a power plant here in Southern California.
Please tell us it's not a nuke plant.
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with every mistake we must surely be learning]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23287554 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:01:28 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23286618
I've always liked Sprint for a device. Their network seems solid, at least on the west coast.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23286618 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:07:45 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23286373 said by Simba7:

..or teather a Windows Mobile, Blackberry, or iPhone to your laptop..
I prefer to have a dedicated device. I frequently need to talk on the phone while on the internet, which is hard to do when the device is tethered and in the case of everyone but AT&T, impossible.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23286373 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:28:39 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23286329 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23286329 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:19:56 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23286306 said by heels_fan:

365 24/7 for the last 4 years.

I even have to carry my laptop with me on vacation. While planning my vacations, I have to find out if and where the nearest internet connection will be.
You need to have your employer spring for an EVDO modem if you can't be away from your internet connection ... ever.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23286306 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:15:26 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23286213
I even have to carry my laptop with me on vacation. While planning my vacations, I have to find out if and where the nearest internet connection will be.
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everyone is born ignorant. some are born stupid, others achieve stupidity and the rest have stupidity thrust upon them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23286213 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:53:47 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23286040 said by nixen:

said by NetAdmin1:

If the bean counters are afraid of paying salaries, they need to be made aware of the costs of bringing in consultants for those critical down situations.

Given typical technology roll-out cycles, frequency of major operational anomalies, etc., it's frequently not worth trying to keep such people on staff. And, even if you try to, they'll often get bored and bolt for the next "interesting opportunity."
You don't need to keep an "expert" in-house, but someone who has enough knowledge on the topic to recognize potential issues before they become major issues and have the capacity to deal with a vendor. Calling in outside consultants and vendors, who may have to work around the clock and on weekends, to bring you back up can be quite costly.

For example, you don't need to have a CCIE in-house if you have a Cisco network when a CCNA is really all you need, but if you don't have anyone in-house that knows Cisco and your network goes down, you are going to pay a premium for assistance with that outage, especially if it is on a weekend and requires around the clock work to fix.
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Kilroy was here]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23286040 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:24:27 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23285457 quote:

Actually, I recently left that business. Got tired of the irregularity of scheduling and not being home very often. Made personal life rather impossible.

Same reason why I left consulting. The hours just sucked. :)

Great talking with you on this stuff. Sounds like we are both agree along the same lines on this issue. I guess we will have to see what happens in the next 10-20 years to see what will happen to the IT industry. :)
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My domain - Nightfall.net]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23285457 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:51:05 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23285400 said by Nightfall:

True, and these people are hired in by successful companies not only for the insurance policy but for the expertise they provide. For instance, we have 20 databases running SQL server. Instead of contracting that work out, we hired a SQL expert for 100k a year. This guy keeps our databases running in tip top shape. The result is a 99.9% uptime during work hours.See my reply regarding depressed labor markets. $100K would have been peanuts a few years ago for less expertise - and enterprise criticality - than that.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23285400 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:43:10 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23285377 said by Nightfall:

Depends on the people involved. I know many VMWare experts who are fully certified working at one organization with less than 100 virtual servers. There is no excitement there, no crashing, and no downtime. These people are there to help shape the organization as well as provide support for a key piece of infrastructure.

You seem to think that the real experts are in consulting and should only be in consulting.Actually, no. It's simply that most organizations don't want to pay to keep SMEs on staff. Most would rather do things on a pay-as-needed basis given the typical utilization levels vs. cost of maintaining SMEs.

said by Nightfall:

That may have been the case in the past, but its changing. Companies are now seeing the benefits of paying experts to be on staff to help make recommendations and streamline what they are good at.

They're seeing it now mostly because the labor market is depressed. If/when things return to anything approaching previous levels, the bean counters will swing things back the other way.

said by Nightfall:

The companies that choose not to do that will be the ones to suffer, and will be calling companies such as yours to help support them and fix their problems.

Actually, I recently left that business. Got tired of the irregularity of scheduling and not being home very often. Made personal life rather impossible.

said by Nightfall:

Trust me, I know many companies who subscribe to this line of thinking.

And even of those that don't subscribe to it, I think it's more a matter of the depressed labor costs that's enabling/driving it rather than some kind of "long term" realization of the worth.

Depressed labor markets also tend to suppress the tendency to look for things that are simply "more interesting". So, it's not as hard for companies to keep SMEs on staff.

Again, should be interesting to see how things play out when the labor market recovers.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23285377 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:38:41 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23285325 said by nixen:

said by NetAdmin1:

Getting the bill for having a group of SMEs coming into the enterprise to diagnose and clean up the issues are sometimes a powerful enough motivator to fix that.

Yeah, generally used in an "operations" context, but SMEs come in all over the place. Plenty of customers that have staff architects (etc.) that really aren't up to the task of designing a big project, etc.

said by NetAdmin1:

If the bean counters are afraid of paying salaries, they need to be made aware of the costs of bringing in consultants for those critical down situations.

Given typical technology roll-out cycles, frequency of major operational anomalies, etc., it's frequently not worth trying to keep such people on staff. And, even if you try to, they'll often get bored and bolt for the next "interesting opportunity."
Depends on the people involved. I know many VMWare experts who are fully certified working at one organization with less than 100 virtual servers. There is no excitement there, no crashing, and no downtime. These people are there to help shape the organization as well as provide support for a key piece of infrastructure.

You seem to think that the real experts are in consulting and should only be in consulting. That may have been the case in the past, but its changing. Companies are now seeing the benefits of paying experts to be on staff to help make recommendations and streamline what they are good at.

The companies that choose not to do that will be the ones to suffer, and will be calling companies such as yours to help support them and fix their problems. Trust me, I know many companies who subscribe to this line of thinking.
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My domain - Nightfall.net]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23285325 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:29:00 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23285308 said by nixen:

said by Nightfall:

Paying for a break glass in case of emergency person to always be on staff is not worth it. Paying for educated and experienced IT people who are diverse in their experience as well as good with customer service pays for itself over time.

It's more a term for someone that's REALLY good at whatever it is you have a business-critical need for.
True, and these people are hired in by successful companies not only for the insurance policy but for the expertise they provide. For instance, we have 20 databases running SQL server. Instead of contracting that work out, we hired a SQL expert for 100k a year. This guy keeps our databases running in tip top shape. The result is a 99.9% uptime during work hours.

Most IT departments would usually hire someone like our SQL expert for a break and fix situation. Now, its all about having an expert in house to not only streamline things, but improve the process internally to databases and how we get data.

Just one example on the value add to an organization. The company just needs the right management to show them this value as well as have the dedication to bring these people on board.
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My domain - Nightfall.net]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23285308 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:24:17 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23285305 said by NetAdmin1:

Getting the bill for having a group of SMEs coming into the enterprise to diagnose and clean up the issues are sometimes a powerful enough motivator to fix that.Yeah, generally used in an "operations" context, but SMEs come in all over the place. Plenty of customers that have staff architects (etc.) that really aren't up to the task of designing a big project, etc.

said by NetAdmin1:

If the bean counters are afraid of paying salaries, they need to be made aware of the costs of bringing in consultants for those critical down situations.

Given typical technology roll-out cycles, frequency of major operational anomalies, etc., it's frequently not worth trying to keep such people on staff. And, even if you try to, they'll often get bored and bolt for the next "interesting opportunity."
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23285305 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:24:07 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23285279 said by Nightfall:

Paying for a break glass in case of emergency person to always be on staff is not worth it. Paying for educated and experienced IT people who are diverse in their experience as well as good with customer service pays for itself over time.
It's more a term for someone that's REALLY good at whatever it is you have a business-critical need for.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23285279 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:19:07 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23285257 said by nixen:

said by Nightfall:

IT professionals with the business in mind who are educated and experienced are on their way in.

Until upper management sees the (apparent/up-front) pricetag of those professionals' salaries. There's a reason outsourcing exists and will continue to do so: most companies don't have enough need for those people to be always on payroll. Everyone wants the "break glass in case of emergency" calibre professional - be that operational, architectural, etc. - but very few want to pay for that kind of talent to sit around waiting for whatever constitutes an emergency.
Paying for a break glass in case of emergency person to always be on staff is not worth it. Paying for educated and experienced IT people who are diverse in their experience as well as good with customer service pays for itself over time. The value to the business is not only their experience level, but their attitude and work ethic they bring.

The way some IT departments are run these days are very sickening to me. Managers who don't know IT managing an IT department. People in IT who don't have the skills or experience in IT running systems they don't know how to support. The users getting substandard support. The list goes on and on.

IT has really only been around for the last 25 years or so. It has evolved radically and will continue to do so as technology changes.
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My domain - Nightfall.net]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23285257 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:14:42 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23284934 said by nixen:

Everyone wants the "break glass in case of emergency" calibre professional - be that operational, architectural, etc. - but very few want to pay for that kind of talent to sit around waiting for whatever constitutes an emergency. Getting the bill for having a group of SMEs coming into the enterprise to diagnose and clean up the issues are sometimes a powerful enough motivator to fix that. If the bean counters are afraid of paying salaries, they need to be made aware of the costs of bringing in consultants for those critical down situations.
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Kilroy was here]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23284934 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:24:50 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23284871 said by Nightfall:

IT professionals with the business in mind who are educated and experienced are on their way in.
Until upper management sees the (apparent/up-front) pricetag of those professionals' salaries. There's a reason outsourcing exists and will continue to do so: most companies don't have enough need for those people to be always on payroll. Everyone wants the "break glass in case of emergency" calibre professional - be that operational, architectural, etc. - but very few want to pay for that kind of talent to sit around waiting for whatever constitutes an emergency.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23284871 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:08:15 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23284849
Corporate IT is changing and changing for the better. It will just take a long time to get away with what has become the status quo. The days of geeks in broom closets providing no customer support are on their way out. IT professionals with the business in mind who are educated and experienced are on their way in.
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My domain - Nightfall.net]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23284849 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:01:39 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23284821 said by Nightfall:

Even so, if you are working in hosting and consulting, you are paid to inherit those problems from poorly running companies who made mistakes in purchasing technology.That was part of why standard builds and standard hardware were part of the "standard offerings". Unfortunately, when customers had big enough pocket books, the sales teams would get the executives to override standards. For example, this was how we got a ton of A5200s in our farms, even though our prior evaluations had DQ'ed them as being part of a standard offering. With the standard cluster offerings, root access was specifically denied customers. Again, sales ended up getting this overridden (and people with root who don't know clustering is REALLY bad juju). As things got further an further away from standard offerings, support costs went up and up, and management was like "why do we need more, costly personnel??

said by Nightfall:

Apparently, I thought you were talking about being part of an IT department in an established company, so thats my mistake.

Unfortunately, services - consulting and hosting services - tend to get lumped under IT. Most people external to the industry tend to lump it all together as being "those computer guys". But, because they have no understanding and want to sound technical, they say "IT".

said by Nightfall:

When you look at an IT department in an established company.....

The company doesn't make a move to a piece of software or hardware without the blessing of IT. In fact, its IT that does the work on evaluating these products and determining the best course of action. Its IT's job to bring these evaluations to the company management and make a strong recommendation.

In big/established companies, it's typically the engineering groups that do the evaluations. Engineering is frequently related to the IT group(s) but definitely a different organizational unit.

said by Nightfall:

Remember, I said being in the right company with the right IT team with the right skills? Thats what I am stating in a nutshell.

Unfortunately, IT tends to be very much the red headed stepchild of the computer industry. So, it's rather rare for the above to happen. If it did, consultants and other services organizations wouldn't exist.

said by Nightfall:

The problem today is that IT is seen as a money sink and too many people are concentrating on just keeping things running. They are technically proficient people without any knowledge of business or customer service. In fact, most IT people HATE customer service and speaking to management who are considered idiots.

Well... That would probably be "IT" in the broad sense. ;)

said by Nightfall:

The new IT departments are made of professionals who are not only technically inclined, but in tune with the business.

"Technically inclined" would tend to be in the very most tangential sense of the term.

said by Nightfall:

They make business proposals for technology that affect the entire company. The management sees these proposals and makes the appropriate decisions based on what IT recommends.

And typically their background is business first with a couple of classes/courses or presentations/seminars that give them their basis of technical inclination. Their IT familiarity tends to be at a very distant view of things.

said by Nightfall:

I will 100% agree with you here. Consulting and working in an IT department in a business are two different things. On the flip side, there are many high end consulting people who just wouldn't cut it in IT in an established organization. Sure, they have the expertise, but they lack key functions such as business sense, customer service, and working in a team (just to name a few).

I'd tend to equate that more with "operations" personnel. People with no business sense or customer service rarely make good consultants. Not that "good consultants" are terribly common...

said by Nightfall:

I know, not everyone falls into place that easily, just pointing out that some people are destined to be in one camp or the other for the most part.

That's like saying things are black and white. People fall across the continuum - though it's rather a "lumpy" distribution curve.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23284821 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:55:54 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23284745 said by lcnoble:

Awh. poor babies. I am a parent!
Let me know when you are on the hook to drive to any number of locations across half of a state. Big difference.
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Kilroy was here]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23284745 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:38:40 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23284111 said by nixen:

said by Nightfall:

Thanks for paying attention and your helpful input. However:

when one is in the SERVICES industry, you really don't have a freaking choice in the matter.
When one works in services corporations where the sales team dictates what customers can put in your data centers and get support on, you really don't have a freaking choice in the matter.
When one works in services corporations where "technically correct" is ignored in favor of the next sale, you don't really have a freaking choice in the matter

said by Nightfall:

Having the skills is one thing, but finding the right company is another. Many organizations out there see IT as a money sink.

Well, there's "IT" and then there's computer services (consulting, hosting, etc.) Services are a RADICALLY different animal than "IT". Very few people that see themselves as competent in the nice, safe coccoon of the "IT" world could either cut it (both be able to survive or be truly useful) in the services or high-end consulting world.

Now, if you weren't trying to be as pompous as what your post came across as, I'll pre-apologize for what felt like an appropriate tone with my response.
Oh, I wasn't trying to be pompous and I didn't get any gist of an inappropriate tone from you. I think we are trying to compare apples to oranges here to be honest. I am talking about being part of an IT department. You are talking about being part of a services team. Services is a much different animal, you are right on that. Especially hosting and consulting services.

Even so, if you are working in hosting and consulting, you are paid to inherit those problems from poorly running companies who made mistakes in purchasing technology. This could be because their IT departments or technologically incompetent IT people couldn't implement things correctly or support them correctly. In that case, you are 100% correct, you are in a crappy situation that really you can't get out of. Apparently, I thought you were talking about being part of an IT department in an established company, so thats my mistake.

When you look at an IT department in an established company.....

The company doesn't make a move to a piece of software or hardware without the blessing of IT. In fact, its IT that does the work on evaluating these products and determining the best course of action. Its IT's job to bring these evaluations to the company management and make a strong recommendation.

Remember, I said being in the right company with the right IT team with the right skills? Thats what I am stating in a nutshell.

The problem today is that IT is seen as a money sink and too many people are concentrating on just keeping things running. They are technically proficient people without any knowledge of business or customer service. In fact, most IT people HATE customer service and speaking to management who are considered idiots.

The new IT departments are made of professionals who are not only technically inclined, but in tune with the business. They make business proposals for technology that affect the entire company. The management sees these proposals and makes the appropriate decisions based on what IT recommends.

Just as you said....

quote:
Well, there's "IT" and then there's computer services (consulting, hosting, etc.) Services are a RADICALLY different animal than "IT". Very few people that see themselves as competent in the nice, safe coccoon of the "IT" world could either cut it (both be able to survive or be truly useful) in the services or high-end consulting world.

I will 100% agree with you here. Consulting and working in an IT department in a business are two different things. On the flip side, there are many high end consulting people who just wouldn't cut it in IT in an established organization. Sure, they have the expertise, but they lack key functions such as business sense, customer service, and working in a team (just to name a few).

I know, not everyone falls into place that easily, just pointing out that some people are destined to be in one camp or the other for the most part.
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My domain - Nightfall.net]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23284111 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:37:59 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23283847 They pay me for 40 hours, salary or not, rest is mine.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23283847 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 10:52:33 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23283441 said by Drex:

Try being a contractor for the government some time. ;)
Don't even get me started on that. It's not so much that the government pays $400 for toilet seats as that things get bought and never used. Literally, there are multimillion-dollar systems bought that sit in storage/warehouses, unused, for YEARS. Basically, they're forgotten until the vendors come by to sell their new generation of computers and offer credit towards that purchase on the trade-ins of the LAST batch of never used systems. And that's only the smallest part of the frustrations of working in the government space.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23283441 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:34:54 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23283423 said by Drex:

Try being a contractor for the government some time. ;)
I heard that......
after being up since 2AM this morning due to a call. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23283423 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:31:24 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23283414 said by Nightfall:

when one is in the SERVICES industry, you really don't have a freaking choice in the matter.
When one works in services corporations where the sales team dictates what customers can put in your data centers and get support on, you really don't have a freaking choice in the matter.
When one works in services corporations where "technically correct" is ignored in favor of the next sale, you don't really have a freaking choice in the matter

said by Nightfall:

Having the skills is one thing, but finding the right company is another. Many organizations out there see IT as a money sink.

said by Nightfall:

All in all, being on call isn't a problem if your IT department is well funded and you have the skills.

Or you aren't supporting customers that INSIST on using broken technology (*cough* SunCluster *cough*). Or insist on using unsupported storage and ignoring when they're told it's heading for a massive failure (nothing like, four months later, watching a million-dollar/day site go down for three days because they ignored you). Or having customers with root access on their hosted systems.
Thats what being well funded and having the skills is all about. If you have those two things, you should not be supporting broken technology or insist on using unsupported storage. If you have the skills, you should not have customers with root access on their hosted systems either.

Having the skills is one thing, but finding the right company is another. Many organizations out there see IT as a money sink.
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My domain - Nightfall.net]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23283189 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:21:01 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23283181 --
I gave up drinking and eating bad food. And in 14 days, I had lost 2 weeks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23283181 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:18:36 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23282766
Every job I've had has pretty much been 24/7/365 unless I'm on PTO and I switch the phone off. In hawaii with two phones going, you get the picture.
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CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23282766 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 03:00:50 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23282565
..ahh.. The life of an Information Systems Technician.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23282565 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:47:26 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23282530 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23282530 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:34:51 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23281826 --
Cogito Ergo Nom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23281826 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:49:31 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23281345 said by lcnoble:

Awh. poor babies. I am a parent!
Most of us are as well. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23281345 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:12:48 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23281293 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23281293 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:01:41 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23281260
I have went in on Saturdays and Sundays when we were switching network switches. I can "comp time" most of the work since I am salary. I don't do it much though. I go in at 7 and come out at 3:30 in the afternoon. This past year they decided that they would pay me a stipend for my cell phone service if my cell phone number was published in the company directory. So far I haven't had people call me asking personal computer questions. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23281260 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:56:17 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23280406 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23280406 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:10:05 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23280387
When I'm on call the night before, I usually show up at 9AM. No one has questioned it (my boss is a show up at 10 guy) but it's pretty easy to explain "I stayed up until 12am" to them. Then it's a grumble but an understanding one.

In my line of work, the vast majority of our problems come in between 9pm and 12am. So going to bed at 10 is silly. 12 am isn't that late per-say, but still, when it's out of company obligation versus my own entertainment...
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Come play Mafia! | My Picture Blog]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23280387 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:07:31 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23280368 --
Get Firefox. Join the new wave.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23280368 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:04:23 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23280242
Least when I was working in IT I got paid for my trouble calls. Family wants their stuff fixed, over the phone, regardless the ungodly hour they may be calling.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23280242 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:44:44 EDT Re: Onyone else on call 24/7 365? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23280151
My old boss was more of the "trade an hour for an hour" mind. I had a PTO day preplanned, and was called for a "security emergency" which turned out to be a user not understanding a simple function, long story short, and wasted half the day working with them. The old boss refunded me .5 PTO after I moaned and groaned about it. Nevermind that it kind of ruined my day rolling out of bed to that headache, I guess.

The new regime per-say seems to be more result-driven. I sat down with my new boss's new boss (yeah, don't ask) when he came in and he was fully supportive of flexible hours and just getting the work done. He's a road warrior and I've gotten 2am email responses and such, so I think we finally have someone that sees eye to eye on the whole "just get it done" vs "I like to see bodies around the office". Nothing on paper, and there's still nothing official, but at least it's a start.

Companies are scared, rightfully so, of flexible time. So many people abuse it. I'm always fearful that I'm abusing it but after a bit of worry I stop and break down the hours I put in VS the "40 hour week". It's fairly rare that I ever come in under 40 on my counts. I maintain good records of my after-hours work as a CYA and do deliver the results I need to (as far as I know!), but it's never fun especially in today's job market. :hmm:
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Baka wa shinanakya naoranai]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Onyone-else-on-call-247-365-23280151 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:28:52 EDT