TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| [DVR] DVR not hurting networks for commercial viewing
Even though I use the DVR to skip all commercials, evidently half the people using DVRs don't do the same thing. Latest numbers have encouraged the networks to NOT oppose DVR use or find ways to disable fast forward.
»www.nytimes.com/2009/11/02/busin···wanted=2 |
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insomniac
Oh Yeah
Premium
join:2002-09-22
Naperville, IL
clubs: | I also skip commercials, but I also watch a lot more TV than I did pre-DVR. |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
| reply to TKJunkMail
IMO, "skip" and "fast forward through" are two different things.
I can't "skip" commercials - I have to fast forward through them. I still see the commercials, and if I see something I like, I stop fast forwarding or I rewind.
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| said by Rob  :IMO, "skip" and "fast forward through" are two different things. I can't "skip" commercials - I have to fast forward through them. I still see the commercials, and if I see something I like, I stop fast forwarding or I rewind. The 30 secs at a clip skip option available thru remote cusomiztion on Motorola DVR's allows no watching of the commercials.
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JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA | reply to TKJunkMail
What's a commercial?
Embedded advertising is the future.
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My place : »www.schettino.us |
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blu87
join:2004-03-23
Manassas, VA
| reply to TKJunkMail
If I had DVR I would skip/fast forward commercials. But then I don't pay attention to commercials anyway. In my opinion, anyone who does is a complete idiot. Since I was about 13 or so (I'm 29 now) I have never been interested in something because of a commercial. I don't buy products because of commercials. I don't care if my favorite celebrity is promoting something, I still won't buy it. I don't understand how commercials can still exist. There must be a lot of idiots in the world who continue to buy things just because they saw it on a commercial. |
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caddyroger
Premium
join:2001-06-11
clubs:
1 edit | If it was no commercials their probably would not be any television programs made It take money to run the tv equipment and pay the actors.
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Caddy |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to TKJunkMail
I think the networks realize that working to find ways to disable fast forward will just earn them more bad PR than it will gain them anything in terms of superior advertising rates paid. I think everyone sees the writing on the wall. While only half of DVR users skip commercials today, that number is and shall continue to increase. Essentially, advertisers are beginning to realize that, and advertising rates are beginning to fall. That will make less and less money available for television production, regardless of equivocations. This is and shall continue to prompt less and less scripted programming on OTA broadcast television, and will prompt a move to put scripted programming behind the fence of subscription fees, which is a more reliable revenue stream (i.e., to cable networks.) |
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GTFan
join:2004-12-03
| Well, they could also integrate more products into the shows, which they've already done to some extent. I don't have a problem with the lead character drinking a Coke and eating a Big Mac, in other words. Jack Bauer driving Ford vehicles on 24 is a prime example.
Whether that's good enough or not, I dunno. And it doesn't help local advertisers at all. |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| reply to TKJunkMail
I actually have watched a few commercials over and over because of the dvr. the problem with advertising is it one size fits all approach. Right now the most tolerable commercials are the progressive commercials. Althought the last commercial made me skip it, i hate mockery. |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | reply to GTFan
said by GTFan :Well, they could also integrate more products into the shows, which they've already done to some extent. I don't have a problem with the lead character drinking a Coke and eating a Big Mac, in other words. Jack Bauer driving Ford vehicles on 24 is a prime example. How would you feel about Richard Cypher and Kahlan Amnell (link) renting horses from Hertz?
The point is that, effectively, product placement, if it becomes a "necessary" part of the revenue model, will end up destroying a whole sub-genre of television. Many people will argue that such things substantially damage ("... the artistic integrity of ...") even those presentations where such placements could be plausible. Furthermore, it essentially eliminates the advantages recently capitalized on with programs such as Flashpoint, The Listener, The Philanthropist, Mental, Durham County, Merlin, etc., i.e., securing revenues from several English-speaking market segments, rather than just one country.
Also, product placement does nothing to help support rebroadcasts, either of older programming that didn't include product placements, nor of even newer programming, where the placement is already made, and therefore on rebroadcast there is no additional revenue to be made. Essentially, it would be necessary to have dynamic product placements: Using your example, Jack Bauer would have to be driving a very generic vehicle, onto which (both logistically and legally) any brand's logo could be electronically imposed. That'll look like crap, for sure.
said by GTFan :And it doesn't help local advertisers at all. Yes, another good point. |
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Curlee
join:2009-07-17
Issaquah, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| From an advertisers' point of view, I don't see much difference between live viewers who mute commercials and/or channel surf, and DVR viewers who forward past them.
Does anyone happen to know if the ratings differentiate between these?
(Anyone who's looked into the rating systems suspects how truly flawed they are ...) |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| said by Curlee :From an advertisers' point of view, I don't see much difference between live viewers who mute commercials and/or channel surf, and DVR viewers who forward past them. Indeed, but the former was already factored-into the advertising rates over 50 years of the business. The latter is a new mitigating factor, and one that is not just increasing, but sky-rocketing. It's like your stocks dropping 20% in just a few years, with all signs pointing toward that turning into a 50% drop in just a few more years.
said by Curlee :(Anyone who's looked into the rating systems suspects how truly flawed they are ...) It's sort of like democracy: flawed but the best way there is... Keep in mind that the flaws are as likely to overstate the value of advertising as understate it. In other words, the reality is that advertisers could already be paying far more than they should be for our entertainment. |
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Curlee
join:2009-07-17
Issaquah, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| We haven't had remote controls for 50 years, but certainly for long enough.
Instead of "the least bad", I suspect it's "the devil you know".
How do you think the public would react to the cable companies keeping viewing statistics? (Not that I see much incentive for them to do so). |
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darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
·Verizon FIOS
| said by Curlee :How do you think the public would react to the cable companies keeping viewing statistics? (Not that I see much incentive for them to do so). Verizon FiOS does this now and customers have access to the aggregate information via "What's Hot" in the STB menu. Oh, and apparently so can the general public 
»www36.verizon.com/fiostv/web/Unp···Hot.aspx |
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Curlee
join:2009-07-17
Issaquah, WA
1 edit | Interesting. Thanks.
Have you heard any reasons or rumors as to why Verizon chose to do this (beside the obvious customer promotional aspects)? |
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darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR | No reason that I've read but I don't keep up with the Verizon blogs lately. I will say that they're pushing the general "sociable tv" aspect more and more with STB "widgets" that interface twitter and facebook... |
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markofmayhem
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
| reply to bicker
said by bicker :Essentially, advertisers are beginning to realize that, and advertising rates are beginning to fall. That will make less and less money available for television production, regardless of equivocations. This is and shall continue to prompt less and less scripted programming on OTA broadcast television, and will prompt a move to put scripted programming behind the fence of subscription fees, which is a more reliable revenue stream (i.e., to cable networks.) Oh... stop. In 1984 this started. ABC wouldn't exist in a year due to the Supreme Court ruling on Sony's Betamax. CBS was going to show nothing except news, sports, and movies from it's own studio. NBC was going to shut-down in 6 months....
It's 2009 and the networks are doing fine. The VTR didn't kill them, the VCR didn't due it, the VDR left them alive, the PVR existed in years where profit rose, the DVR will do nothing as well. Scripted TV won't stop, it will just continue to degrade like it has been doing since the 40's. It's not because of advertising revenue (though I'm sure that is part of it), it has a lot to do with over-saturated-market competition and the need to fill more hours every year with "new" content instead of "quality". All hail the greatest invention ever for network TV: the reality show. Not because it's cheap, but because it offers many, many, many more hours of "new" content without relying on an individual to write the script faster than they can produce and air it. These people do exist, but they are becoming fewer in numbers: hence the cancellation of day-time soap operas. |
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Chuckles
Premium
join:2006-03-04
Saint Paul, MN | reply to TKJunkMail
On the news they had some statistics that about 60% of the people who record with a DVR don't even bother to fast forward the commercials. |
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LowRider
join:2006-06-23
Dallas, GA
·Charter Pipeline
| reply to JohnInSJ
said by JohnInSJ :What's a commercial? Embedded advertising is the future. when that happens or i should say gets more annoying i will cancel my cable. Some shows already do the in show advertising. they usuallyy take up 1/3 of the bottom of the screen. |
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