homers
join:2002-02-05
Santa Clarita, CA |  Does a 802.11n router improve range for 802.11g clients?
Does a 802.11n router improve range for 802.11g clients (in a typical house environment)? |
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tipstir
join:2004-11-14
Enfield, CT
 ·Cox HSI
| said by homers  :Does a 802.11n router improve range for 802.11g clients (in a typical house environment)? First think of how much download speed are you getting from your ISP? Is it less than 6mbps or is it greater than 20mbps.
G is more than enough for the internet
G is transfers in a house LAN is more than enough.
N can handle larger mbps than G internet can handle
Example: If you were to backup your drive C: from wireless laptop lets say about 7GB worth that would take on average from 40 to 55 minutes and only if ideal connections were great like a excellent signal. This is how it would be on Wireless G laptop.
But lets say if this was on Wireless N laptop, the results are much different, average time would be 15 to 30 minutes again all conditions have to be met here and the signal would again be ideal.
N move larger files in less time on your local LAN on the Wan (internet) the pipe coming into your home would have to larger though. 20 or better in mbps. |
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homers
join:2002-02-05
Santa Clarita, CA | thanks for the response. I do understand the speed difference, but I was specifically asking about range. If I get a n router, will the range be improved for the g adaptors? |
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No_Strings
Premium,Mod
join:2001-11-22
The OC
Host:
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Efficient
| No. At least not as a result of it being N.
The only thing N brings to the table is MIMO - a way to filter out one specific type of interference that can inhibit the range of some G setups. Many G devices also offer MIMO, so even that may be a wash.
The other variable is the radio in the router. If the quality of the signal transmitted and received by the new router is better than the old one, you will see some improvement in range. No way to reliably predict with consumer gear. |
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cacroll
Eventually, Prozac becomes normal
Premium
join:2002-07-25
Martinez, CA
| reply to homers
said by homers :If I get a n router, will the range be improved for the g adaptors?
For an n mode connection from router to client, you have to have 802.11n equipment on the router and on the client. If the client has 802.11g equipment, the router has to switch to g mode. At g mode, you get normal g mode range.
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Cheers,
Chuck
MS-MVP 2005-2009 [Windows - Desktop Experience]
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tipstir
join:2004-11-14
Enfield, CT
·Cox HSI
1 edit | reply to homers
said by homers :thanks for the response. I do understand the speed difference, but I was specifically asking about range. If I get a n router, will the range be improved for the g adaptors? No! Doesn't work like that! Unless you get stronger Mw wireless 802.11g/n router. These are not cheap! Basic home wireless router can do 40-50Mw some can do more by changing the stock firmware with third party enhanced firmware that can override stock firmware limits for TX from 70 - 256Mw thus the range coverage would be 5,000 sq ft like in you can in a Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 using DD-WRT firmware. Caution though going beyond the DD-WRT default which is now 71Mw to anything like 100Mw or greater can have some packet lost causing the RX to generate errors in receiving data. |
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cacroll
Eventually, Prozac becomes normal
Premium
join:2002-07-25
Martinez, CA
1 edit | said by tipstir :Basic home wireless router can do 40-50Mw some can do more by changing the stock firmware with third party enhanced firmware that can override stock firmware limits for TX from 70 - 256Mw thus the range coverage would be 5,000 sq ft like in you can in a Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 using DD-WRT firmware. Caution though going beyond the DD-WRT default which is now 71Mw to anything like 100Mw or greater can have some packet lost causing the RX to generate errors in receiving data.
LOL, Tips.
Does the "," or the ";" key work, on your keyboard?
Basic home wireless router can do 40-50Mw. Some can do more by changing the stock firmware with third party enhanced firmware, that can override stock firmware limits for TX from 70 - 256Mw; thus the range coverage would be 5,000 sq ft, like in you can in a Buffalo WHR-HP-G54, using DD-WRT firmware.
Caution, though. Going beyond the DD-WRT default, which is now 71Mw, to anything like 100Mw or greater, can have some packet lost - causing the RX to generate errors in receiving data.
--
Cheers,
Chuck
MS-MVP 2005-2009 [Windows - Desktop Experience]
Nitecruzr Dot Net |
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w0g
o.O
join:2001-08-30
Portland, OR
clubs: | reply to homers
N devices have at least 3 antennas so there are several reasons why N hardware would probably offer better range than most non-N hardware.
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www.aimless.us - irc.aimless.us channel #fix |
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tipstir
join:2004-11-14
Enfield, CT
·Cox HSI
1 edit | said by w0g :N devices have at least 3 antennas so there are several reasons why N hardware would probably offer better range than most non-N hardware. I've seen 1 ANT, 2 ANT, 3 ANT some Radius have 16 ANT. Most home routers have the 3 ANT. This one for ZyXEL bit of a strange one with 1 ANT for N.
NBG417N |
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w0g
o.O
join:2001-08-30
Portland, OR
clubs:
 ·Clearwire Wireless
| reply to homers
Perhaps the same standard for laptops isn't held for the access points themselves. With the introduction of N, laptops began to have three antennas built-in.
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tipstir
join:2004-11-14
Enfield, CT
·Cox HSI
| said by w0g :Perhaps the same standard for laptops isn't held for the access points themselves. With the introduction of N, laptops began to have three antennas built-in. 2T2R
or
3T3R
Same have a boost or extra amp in them thus those cards use more battery but the signal is higher in Mw. Most N cards are 100Mw (-50dBM) where some G high power are 250Mw (these have better range though and connect -38dBm) |
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homers
join:2002-02-05
Santa Clarita, CA | reply to tipstir
thanks for the responses. So the answer appears to be, maybe. Now I just need to do a bit of searching for a wireless N router for my house that fits my needs. |
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tipstir
join:2004-11-14
Enfield, CT
·Cox HSI
2 edits | said by homers :thanks for the responses. So the answer appears to be, maybe. Now I just need to do a bit of searching for a wireless N router for my house that fits my needs. Use this guide
Fonera 2.0N USA USD $99 bucks the only draw back it's not a Gig router only 10/100 but it has 802.11n. Released October, 2009 Design and supports P2P and you don't need a PC or wireless laptop it suppose to free up wlap.
Here's everything that's available right now..
»www.productwiki.com/routers/
Then compare with SmallNetBuilder the WNDR3700 got 86 out of 100 not bad, but coming in at 82 Belkin N+ I'll stick with for now. |
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stevech0
join:2006-09-17
San Diego, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·VoicePulse
| reply to w0g
said by w0g :N devices have at least 3 antennas so there are several reasons why N hardware would probably offer better range than most non-N hardware. Not. |
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stevech0
join:2006-09-17
San Diego, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·VoicePulse
1 edit | reply to tipstir
said by tipstir :Same have a boost or extra amp in them thus those cards use more battery but the signal is higher in Mw. Most N cards are 100Mw (-50dBM) where some G high power are 250Mw (these have better range though and connect -38dBm) Lots of engineering units errors above.
- most consumer WiFi for 2.4GHz, 11g mode, is about 40mW. In 11b mode, most go to 100mW. This is due to 11g/n being OFDM and need 5dB or more of power reduction due to the complexity of the 11g/n OFDM waveforms.
100mW is equal to 20dBm in power.
1 mW is 0dBm, hence the name "dBm = decibels relative to one miliwatt". The -50dBm comment above seems confused. |
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tipstir
join:2004-11-14
Enfield, CT
·Cox HSI
1 edit | said by stevech0 :said by tipstir :Same have a boost or extra amp in them thus those cards use more battery but the signal is higher in Mw. Most N cards are 100Mw (-50dBM) where some G high power are 250Mw (these have better range though and connect -38dBm) Lots of engineering units errors above. - most consumer WiFi for 2.4GHz, 11g mode, is about 40mW. In 11b mode, most go to 100mW. This is due to 11g/n being OFDM and need 5dB or more of power reduction due to the complexity of the 11g/n OFDM waveforms. 100mW is equal to 20dBm in power. 1 mW is 0dBm, hence the name "dBm = decibels relative to one miliwatt". The -50dBm comment above seems confused. Well I just going by my gear.. Using measurement programs to test the Mw. Buffalo had released a lot of 802.11g that had exceeded the FCC requirements. The wireless adapter WLI-CB-G54HP shows 250Mw.
Back to the other tech talk.
-50dBm is average for 802.11n only. Both Belkin N+ & Trendnet N
-50dBm is average for 802.11g only. DD-WRT firmware 71Mw
Now RSSI (Received signal strength indication)
TEW-652BRP
Trendnet 802.11n (I modded that one)
-49
WHR-HP-G54
Buffalo 802.1g (DD-WRT)
-50
N+
Belkin 802.11n
-61 |
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PeteC2
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join:2002-01-20
Bristol, CT
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2 edits | reply to homers
said by homers :Does a 802.11n router improve range for 802.11g clients (in a typical house environment)? homers, the simplest answer that I can give you is this: In my somewhat limited experience, I have see very little to no difference in effective range between a G and N router, whether in use with G devices or N devices.
As with all routers, even within the same genre, such as 11G, based on your location, some will give a little better reception than others, but that is about it.
Consumer routers are consumer routers...
In fact, I still have an 11B router at work, and frankly, the range appears much the same as with my newer routers!
P.S. That is not to say that there is no justification for going to an 11N router...but range would not be a big reason from what I have seen.
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Deeds, not words |
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tipstir
join:2004-11-14
Enfield, CT
·Cox HSI
| said by PeteC2 :said by homers :Does a 802.11n router improve range for 802.11g clients (in a typical house environment)? homers, the simplest answer that I can give you is this: In my somewhat limited experience, I have see very little to no difference in effective range between a G and N router, whether in use with G devices or N devices. As with all routers, even within the same genre, such as 11G, based on your location, some will give a little better reception than others, but that is about it. Consumer routers are consumer routers... In fact, I still have an 11B router at work, and frankly, the range appears much the same as with my newer routers! P.S. That is not to say that there is no justification for going to an 11N router...but range would not be a big reason from what I have seen. Range will vary from your work to your home environment. Most clients or corporate enterprise will use more than one Repeater or some use wired AP to extend the range. When I work in such an environment I see 802.11g weak then strong. 802.11b, 802.11g, 802.11n all going to ex-bit pretty much the same as you say above. 802.11v will help improve 802.11n signal and range well looks good on paper in real life situations the verdict is still out on that one. |
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stevech0
join:2006-09-17
San Diego, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·VoicePulse
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above, what's 802.11v?
In any wireless data system, longer range, for some given obstructions, comes from narrower bandwidth, lower modulation/data rates, more error correction codes.
Slower longer
faster shorter
that's physics.
11n has a myriad of modes/options, negotiated over the air, so 11n is to wireless modes as Red Wine is to varietals. |
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tipstir
join:2004-11-14
Enfield, CT
·Cox HSI
| said by stevech0 :above, what's 802.11v? In any wireless data system, longer range, for some given obstructions, comes from narrower bandwidth, lower modulation/data rates, more error correction codes. Slower longer faster shorter that's physics. 11n has a myriad of modes/options, negotiated over the air, so 11n is to wireless modes as Red Wine is to varietals. 802.11v to help manage WiFi traffic
standard will include provisions such as smooth client transitions between access points that will help ease congestion during peak usage times as well as increase performance of mission critical applications suppose to add 802.11n performance.
I know you enjoy your 802.11g but it's sill low in mbps compare to 802.11n but since this is now standard and more devices coming out with larger foot print in mbps.
Range is about equal well here it is.. |
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