Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense? in General Questions

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 02:01:13 EDT

tim_k :

said by Xstar_Lumini :

Don't get fooled by the hype people, all these .357 mags and .44's are useless and extremely inaccurate,

Ah yes, a real firearms expert here

In your home, how far away could the intruder possibly be? Accuracy of .357 vs 9mm is not going to be an issue. The hard part is bringing the sights on target. I'd wager that in almost all home invasion firefights, only a couple rounds are fired before the fight is over, six is plenty for the vast majority of situations.
--
RIP my babies Buttons 1/15/94-2/9/07, Beamer 7/24/08, & Bows 12/17/94-10/11/09

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:30:42 EDT

Tuxified :

said by Xstar_Lumini :

Don't get fooled by the hype people, all these .357 mags and .44's are useless and extremely inaccurate, would you like to confront an intruder who's carrying a 17-round 9mm with your 6-shot .357 revolver?

What's the use of these things having a great stopping/penetrating power if you can't hit the target because they kick/recoil too much? Buy a 9mm and simply pump more bullets into the subject, he will drop fast.

The ones I've owned were controllable and accurate even with full power loadings.

I'd suggest the inaccuracy and controllability issues are generally the fault of the shooter, not the firearms or the ammunition.
--
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it...would my opinion still be wrong?

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Mon, 09 Nov 2009 12:08:56 EDT

lagged : A big 6" revolver doesn't kick that much that its uncontrollable. If I'm up against one threat, 6 rounds is ok. One could ask what's the point of a weak 9mm?
--
tight lines and screaming reels

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Mon, 09 Nov 2009 07:36:16 EDT

dvd536 :

You can't hit anything with a 17 shot 9mm that is jammed!
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Sun, 08 Nov 2009 23:05:44 EDT

Xstar_Lumini : Don't get fooled by the hype people, all these .357 mags and .44's are useless and extremely inaccurate, would you like to confront an intruder who's carrying a 17-round 9mm with your 6-shot .357 revolver?

What's the use of these things having a great stopping/penetrating power if you can't hit the target because they kick/recoil too much? Buy a 9mm and simply pump more bullets into the subject, he will drop fast.

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:44:35 EDT

Axekick :

said by nonymous :

said by Axekick :

First off a .40 is more powerful than a .357 so why would you recommend it?

edit: the .40 is NOT more powerful than a .357 but very close to being as powerful.

If you are relying on a pistol for home defense you need a 'man stopper' and not something that will piss off some drug induced zombie. The .357 and .40 have nearly identical one shot stops the last time I read any research on them.

Police do use .357 and .40's both, the .40 being more common because it is designed for automatics. Our local sheriff's department and highway department both carried .357's before the .40 became common and it was not unique to my area.

Every round you mentioned will over-penetrate if by over penetrate you are referring to the round passing through their body and continuing in motion.

I own four guns and the one I keep for home protection is a 12 gauge pump. Prior to purchasing this shotgun the pistol I kept for home protection was a Smith & Wesson 686, .357 magnum.

Where do you live where all burglars are drug crazed zombies wearing the latest body armor?
Thru out the thread I keep hearing gang banger wearing body armor and drug crazed zombies by more than a few posters. I think it is time for some people to move.
I say a hand gun is fine for self defense. Just I hardly see a fully body armored gang member or totally drug crazed zombie as my most likely threats. If they where I would move.
Yes people doing drugs do steal but they are still not always drug crazed 24/7. If I had packs of roving gang members in my neighborhood I would move. I am not gate guarded and do not live in the best area of town. Still I do not have gang members selling drugs on every corner wearing military outfits packing the latest and greatest weapons.
So does anyone here have a sniper weapon and can not wait for the rioting so they can sit on their roofs and pick people off way down the block?

This is the second incoherent reply you have made to me since I logged in.

Where did I make any mention of body armor? (Read the very text you quoted and you will see it does not exist)

I live in St. Louis.

The remainder of what you have typed is a gross exaggeration of what you perceive my environment to be. St. Louis is ranked #1 in violent crime in the United States but the details you added are not consistent with my post.

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 13:29:38 EDT

Tuxified :

said by nonymous :

Where do you live where all burglars are drug crazed zombies wearing the latest body armor?
Thru out the thread I keep hearing gang banger wearing body armor and drug crazed zombies by more than a few posters. I think it is time for some people to move.
I say a hand gun is fine for self defense. Just I hardly see a fully body armored gang member or totally drug crazed zombie as my most likely threats. If they where I would move.
Yes people doing drugs do steal but they are still not always drug crazed 24/7. If I had packs of roving gang members in my neighborhood I would move. I am not gate guarded and do not live in the best area of town. Still I do not have gang members selling drugs on every corner wearing military outfits packing the latest and greatest weapons.

A wise person will prepare for the worst while hoping for the best.
In situations where unknown factors may be encountered and staying alive is the desirable outcome....it's always better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
wouldn't you agree?

Moving or relocating will not necessarily solve the dilemma since violent crime is not constrained to any definable area.
There is literally no safe place to go.

said by nonymous :

So does anyone here have a sniper weapon and can not wait for the rioting so they can sit on their roofs and pick people off way down the block?

My roof is much too steep for employing such a foolish suggestion.
So no, speaking for myself only, I'm not planning on doing that.

BTW, what constitutes a "sniper weapon"?
I have several neighbors who use what are commonly referred to as "sniper weapons" to hunt deer every year.
That same "sniper weapon" would not be my first choice in a typical home defense scenario,....but if it were the only firearm within reach it would certainly be capable of dispatching a thug whether adorned by body armor or not. (long or short range)
--
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it...would my opinion still be wrong?

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 12:34:18 EDT

nonymous :

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 10:45:29 EDT

timcuth :

said by Axekick :

Prior to purchasing this shotgun the pistol I kept for home protection was a Smith & Wesson 686, .357 magnum.

I have one of those. I love it!

Tim
--
"Life is like this long line, except at the end there ain't no merry-go-round." - Arthur on The King of Queens
~ Project Hope ~

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 05:55:52 EDT

Axekick : First off a .40 is more powerful than a .357 so why would you recommend it?

edit: the .40 is NOT more powerful than a .357 but very close to being as powerful.

If you are relying on a pistol for home defense you need a 'man stopper' and not something that will piss off some drug induced zombie. The .357 and .40 have nearly identical one shot stops the last time I read any research on them.

Police do use .357 and .40's both, the .40 being more common because it is designed for automatics. Our local sheriff's department and highway department both carried .357's before the .40 became common and it was not unique to my area.

Every round you mentioned will over-penetrate if by over penetrate you are referring to the round passing through their body and continuing in motion.

I own four guns and the one I keep for home protection is a 12 gauge pump. Prior to purchasing this shotgun the pistol I kept for home protection was a Smith & Wesson 686, .357 magnum.

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:35:05 EDT

anon :

said by Wills :

Many people hunt deer with .50 BMG. They hunt from great distances. Long distance hunting is becoming very popular. They use popular sniping calibers, .50 BMG, Lapua, just to name a few (damn it I want a Lapua...)

You can take down a target at ranges up to a mile with a .50 round. Must make for quite a hike if you make a kill.

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:47:07 EDT

tim_k :

said by horsemouth :

I like something that can drop a bear.

That pea shooter? »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.500_S%26W_Magnum ;)

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:20:20 EDT

20750484 :

said by DarkSithPro :

I see all these people who give shoddy advice to new gun users, recommending a .357 magnum for home defense? Are they friken crazy? A supersonic magnum round in a closed environment, which will over penetrate, not to mention the horrendous kick, defining blast, and which would be uncontrollable while firing at a fast rate! Do these people who recommend a .357 for home defense even own a gun? A simple 9mm, .40, or even a .38 is more than enough for home defense!!!

You are a Sith Lord? Why do you need a gun in the first place?

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:44:12 EDT

Locutus65 :

said by horsemouth :

I like something that can drop a bear.

(youtube clip)

Oh man, now I'm drooling! I'd love to shoot that thing! Biggest pistol I've ever shot is a 44 mag.
--
The only thing we have to fear is Fear itself...... and spiders.

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:41:33 EDT

horsemouth : I like something that can drop a bear.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaJE23dzyjU

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 10:36:43 EDT

Locutus65 : I have a .22 revolver with a 9" barrel. Holds 9 rounds in the cylinder. It's not that I wouldn't like to have something bigger but it's just not in my budget.
However, I am a good enough shot with that .22 that, unless the thug is wearing fully enclosed headgear, I'll take him down. Or if needed just kneecap him and wait for the police :-)
--
The only thing we have to fear is Fear itself...... and spiders.

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:48:42 EDT

carp : Taurus - The Judge!

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:26:05 EDT

Wills :

Police departments not using .357 Magnum anymore has nothing to do with liability. It has much more to do with .357 Magnum being a revolver round and limited capacity and their move to semi-auto pistols with more capacity than liability.

In fact, many of the detectives I used to work with used .357 Magnum revolvers as backup guns.

Over-penetrate? Not with the proper round.

Uncontrollable? Again, depends on the shooter. Maybe someone with girly wrists can't control it, but others may not. I occasionally carry a 2" .357 Magnum and I'm quite proficient with it. I've never shot .38 Spl out of it, but I let the girlfriend shoot it with .38.

And your comment about taking a .50 BMG deer hunting just goes to show that you think it should all be done your way to be right. Many people hunt deer with .50 BMG. They hunt from great distances. Long distance hunting is becoming very popular. They use popular sniping calibers, .50 BMG, Lapua, just to name a few (damn it I want a Lapua...)

Just because you don't do it doesn't make it automatically wrong.

Personally, I use my Springfield XD in .45 GAP for home defense. Accurate, reliable, easy to use, and can see if it's locked and loaded with a simple touch (it always is). For carry I switch between a full-size 1911, a Bersa .380, and the 2" .357 depending on attire. I don't particularly like the .380 round, but it's nice to carry something small and light when I'm in shorts and a tank tap.

My recommendation for what you should carry will always be the same. Carry what you can shoot proficiently. If all you can shoot and shoot well is a .22 then carry a .22. A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .45.
--
Go fishing in southwest Florida.
»www.viciousstrikes.com

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:55:41 EDT

timcuth : I have heard knowledgeable people recommend .357 Magnum for home defense. However, I am more in agreement with your reasoning and, along the same lines, I would look more to a .45 ACP or even a sawed off shotgun (where not strictly illegal). What you need for home defense is stopping power, not high velocity.

Simple and old fashioned, but effective.

Tim
--
"Life is like this long line, except at the end there ain't no merry-go-round." - Arthur on The King of Queens
~ Project Hope ~

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:07:53 EDT

anon : I'll just stick with the 12 gauge and buckshot...

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 07:41:29 EDT

dvd536 :

38 revolver is my home defense gun.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 07:33:59 EDT

Snakeoil : Firarms so over rated for home defense. Give me a chuck Norris Ninja any day. Anyone breaks in, he'd ninja their ass before they can blink.

failing that, I'd take a guard goose. Those sucks pack a nasty chomp and can hit the twig and berries spot on.

Even failing that, a few pet skunks might work too.

See firearms over rated...

Though the best defense is a good offense..
Toss poo bombs.. thats right.. save up the dog poo and people poo.. toss them..
The home invader would be so grossed out, he'll run away screaming.

For those less enlightened the above is a satire. I have no idea what round is best for home defense, no what weapon. IMO, It takes training, and lots of it, and researching, then making the choice that best fits your needs and abilities. To often people buy a weapon, put it under their pillow, then kill someone other then a robber, because they failed to get proper training, and maintain that training. Police and military spend thousands of hours on weapons training. When I went thru boot camp in the army, we went to went to the range two weeks straight. Consider that boot was only 8 weeks long.
Home owners that own firearms should also be required to spend that many hours on the range. Practice firing in all light conditions, be put in a high stress environment and fire as well. Just so they have a small idea of how they will react when the shit really hits the fan. It's easy to say you'll drop the hammer on someone and end their life, but can you really do it? Few know until the time comes, then that moment of hesitancy can get them or a loved one killed.

--
I want Obama money. "wheres it comming from?" I dunno, his stash. I don't care, I just want obama money. Shows the lack of education and the greed of people. Hand outs from the government comes from your pay check and wallet. Think about it.

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 04:45:12 EDT

tim_k : Depends on the bullet type. I watched a test of a 30/06 frangible round. That thing broke up and spread out almost on impact. I don't believe it penetrated more than 10". I use Glaser Blue Safety Slugs in my .357. If I decide to go with a more conventional JHP, I'll step down to .38. If you look here »ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defen···ndex.htm a 9mm can easily penetrate further than .223 (5.56 mm).
--
RIP my babies Buttons 1/15/94-2/9/07, Beamer 7/24/08, & Bows 12/17/94-10/11/09

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:15:21 EDT

DarkSithPro :

said by beerbum :

said by DarkSithPro :

said by Tuxified :

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother...

Well... Can you give me a practical scenario where your average Joe would actually need a magnum round for self defense? When Police, who patrol our streets at night don't use them, why would a family need it?

well for one, it is popular for the 'gangsta' thugs around here to wear bullet vests..

using a .22 or .32 against someone wearing a vest would be all but useless, I'd want something with a bit more firepower but then again I am the owner of one of these:

[att=1]

May I say what a beautiful gun you've got there:)

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:10:52 EDT

beerbum :

said by DarkSithPro :

said by Tuxified :

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother...

Colt Python .357 Magnum

WTF?

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:29:15 EDT

mr_slick : Is this a packin' board? Perhaps we DO need a separate forum page for defense, guns, etc.?!?

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:13:26 EDT

DarkSithPro :

said by lagged :

If 2 walls is considered devastating...

You must have missed the part where the rounds went through the walls, a metal cabinet, and a manikin with flack vest.

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:48:15 EDT

lagged : If 2 walls is considered devastating...
--
tight lines and screaming reels

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:38:20 EDT

DarkSithPro : looks like 5.56 would be devastating to homes according to military tests...

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=lprGoEpDXJQ

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:29:14 EDT

lagged : Well lets do a little research before we assume penetration results.

»how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html

556 does not penetrate dry wall very well. It tumbles after the first sheet and once it starts to tumble it doesn't go very far. This is what I use at my primary residence as it is semi rural.

I also have an duplex, and when there my 45 is my go to gun. It's only 15 feet between me and the next house, I don't trust anything to be "safe" for that situation, but if it's the choice between my death or a calculated risk, guess which one it is?

As for 357, it is a quick round, but clog a hollow point up with denim, and all it makes is a little hole. Not my choice for stopping a meth head, but I understand why some people choose it. I wouldn't feel undergunned with it at all. Look at energy transferred to the target, and 45 ACP is pretty close. It's much slower but about twice as heavy.
--
tight lines and screaming reels

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:25:11 EDT

DarkSithPro :

said by SirMeowmix_I :

It's premature to think everyone lives in a apartment/suburban environment. It's also asinine to assert that 9MM penetrates *less* than than the other rounds, especially .357 Magnum. Please do some research before starting a rant.

That's what hollow points are for. They mushroom, which results in less penetration but when you have a magnum round going 1,400-600 feet per second that's absurd. The .357 sig is another that tends to over penetrate.

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:20:03 EDT

anon : It's premature to think everyone lives in a apartment/suburban environment. It's also asinine to assert that 9MM penetrates *less* than than the other rounds, especially .357 Magnum. Please do some research before starting a rant.

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:13:10 EDT

DarkSithPro :

said by lagged :

357 mag stopping power is around a good 45 acp load. Maybe some advantage to the 357, but you need to rely more on expansion.

357 isn't bad out of a big revolver, like a 5" or 6". It's not like it's a super duper impregnate women 5 lanes down round.

I really don't have faith in 9mm, 38, and maybe even 40 for home defense. Why limit myself to a small round where gun size doesn't matter? I use a 45 or 556 for home defense, depending on where I am.

Uhhh, ever heard of over penetration? A 5.56/.223 round travels at roughly 3,000 feet per second. How many walls in your house do you think that will go though, not to mention your neighbors walls? Also a .45 acp travels at subsonic speeds, usually at about 800 feet per second. A .357 round travels at about 1,400 feet per second, which is supersonic causing about 650 ft-lb of energy vs the .45 which is about 450-500 ft-b of energy. Big difference.

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:59:13 EDT

lagged : 357 mag stopping power is around a good 45 acp load. Maybe some advantage to the 357, but you need to rely more on expansion.

357 isn't bad out of a big revolver, like a 5" or 6". It's not like it's a super duper impregnate women 5 lanes down round.

I really don't have faith in 9mm, 38, and maybe even 40 for home defense. Why limit myself to a small round where gun size doesn't matter? I use a 45 or 556 for home defense, depending on where I am.
--
tight lines and screaming reels

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:41:56 EDT

DarkSithPro :

said by Tuxified :

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother...

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:34:50 EDT

Tuxified : Sometimes I wonder why I even bother...

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:29:05 EDT

DarkSithPro :

said by Tuxified :

Just because you personally think a particular caliber/firearm type is wrong for a given situation does not necessarily make it so for all concerned.
Besides, there is always the option to ignore such "shoddy" advice is there not?
A real pity that more don't choose to exercise that option.

FWIW, I encourage people to do their own research and make up their own minds based on their individual situations rather than listen to the ramblings of a bunch of self-appointed Internet "experts" and know-it-alls.
Just remember that "Internet advice" is totally free...and it's usually worth exactly what you paid for it...Nothing.

In other words, if one wants sound firearm advice, one would be better served to log off the computer and consult some real-world people with verifiable credentials,...or at the very least make sure the credentials of their Internet sources are real and not fabricated.

That argument makes no practical sense at all. How may police Departments do you see carrying around .357 magnums? None right? Maybe due to liability issues? Yea, no shi* Do you take a .50 BMG to go deer hunting? No you don't. It's simply absurd to use such a high powered round for the application.

Re: Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:11:43 EDT

Tuxified :

Why would people reccomend a magnum round for defense?

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:38:05 EDT

DarkSithPro : I see all these people who give shoddy advice to new gun users, recommending a .357 magnum for home defense? Are they friken crazy? A supersonic magnum round in a closed environment, which will over penetrate, not to mention the horrendous kick, defining blast, and which would be uncontrollable while firing at a fast rate! Do these people who recommend a .357 for home defense even own a gun? A simple 9mm, .40, or even a .38 is more than enough for home defense!!!