Lurch77
Stop looking at me.
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
 ·CenturyLink
 ·HiOconto
| reply to joako
Re: New electrical outlets. Jam in hole or wrap around screw
said by joako  :said by marigolds :Like dgilbert mentioned, there are two kinds of backstab receptacles. With one type, as you tighten down the screws it tightens downs a plate in the holes as well. Those are pretty tough to pull lose. Those kind also cost twice as much as a regular outlet and really do not save you any time (though you end up with no exposed wire at all, use less wire, and have less risk of a wire snapping with no bends). For those kind, when you unscrew the terminals, the wire comes out with no resistance (easy way to tell the difference). But the cheaper backstab ones that contractors use to save time and money; don't bother using those for the reasons mentioned. I find it a pain in the ass to get the wire into the screws properly so I use the backstab method, it has never given me a problem. If I ever need to change an outlet and come across the ones you describe I might be inclined to use them, otherwise I will continue to use the "unsafe method" Backstab connections are high resistance connections. I'm sure you know enough to know high resistance equals heat. Sometimes a lot of heat, especially from a well used and loaded outlet. That is where the safety issue is. Take the extra 10 seconds to wrap the wire and tighten the screw. It literally could save a life, and most likely will prevent minor electrical trouble down the road as they age.
An alternative is the connection marigolds mentions, where you stick the wire in the back and tighten down the screw. That is called "backwired" and is completely different from a "backstab" connection.
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"On a motorcycle, you're penetrating distance right along with the machine. In a car you're just a spectator; the windshield's like a TV." ~ Kenny "Von Dutch" Howard |
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Lurch77
Stop looking at me.
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
·CenturyLink
·HiOconto
| reply to incognito_2u
said by incognito_2u :Short story..... Had a GFI outlet with a microwave oven plugged into it....every time I used the microwave, the GFI would pop. Thinking that I had a defective GFI, I went to remove the outlet only to find that it was connected via the "stab" method. Seems that over time, the heat generated loosened the connection. Rewired it the "correct" way and it has worked ever since! Most GFCI outlets use the backwire feature that requires tightening the side screws even when using the back holes. When it was installed if someone did not tighten the screws down fully it may never have been connected right.
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"On a motorcycle, you're penetrating distance right along with the machine. In a car you're just a spectator; the windshield's like a TV." ~ Kenny "Von Dutch" Howard |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| Just thought I would add to this that Lowe's sells the backwire standard outlets in a contractor pack for about $20.
I'm in the middle of rewiring 25 2-prong outlets in this house (nearly all of them have a ground wire present), so I went ahead and bought two boxes. Even if you do not use the backwire, they are good quality receptacles. |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Swingerhead
Wrap, screw, tape. I prefer white electrical over black as the adhesive does not come off and get sticky.
I had this problem in my home where outlets were failing. The electrical subcontractor did the backstab to the outlets and they popped out on all the "exterior" walled outlets (lets assume the thermal changes helped accelerate this failure).
Fortunately, the remodeling I am doing is replacing the outlets. I am screwing down all the wire, then I wrap the outlet with one-two passes of white electrical tape. If the wires break off, the tape protects them. 
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Splat |
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Killa200
Premium
join:2005-12-02
Spring City, TN | Good proper grounding should also protect you and the wiring if those wires break too,  |
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dgilbert
Good Bye My Friend
Premium,MVM
join:2002-06-15
none
clubs:
| reply to cableties
tape on an outlet is a SURE sign of a DIY'er. all it does is get in teh way and eventually the glue works it's way between the screw and the wire, thus causing high resistance. i might put a wrap of tape around outlets if they are going to be hot and hanging from teh box for a while, such as when we paint the room, but that is removed before the outlet goes back in teh wall.
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Lack of Preparation on YOUR Part does NOT Constitute an Emergency on Mine! |
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nunya
SEE ROCK CITY 475 MILES
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
clubs: | reply to Swingerhead
If you have to use tape, something has gone terribly wrong. |
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mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
clubs:
 ·Mediacom
| reply to Swingerhead
Count me in with the "Just Say No" to back-stabbing group.
I have also found multiple instances of heat-damaged receptacles caused by poor connections at the stabbed wire. I once thought they were cool, and "saved time", but after finding the result of that so-called time-saver, I realized how wrong I was.
So, just say no....
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
 ·Hollis Hosting
·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
| reply to Swingerhead
Another vote against spring loaded back-stab receptacles. I don't know how they ever got UL approval.
I like the back-stab type that uses a flat plate and screw to capture the wire but you really have to torque the screw down.
We used stresses skin panels in our timber frame home. That required use of old work boxes on outside walls held in place with Madison straps.
»www.winterpanel.com/manuals/wdnos21.html
»forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.p···6&page=3
I wrapped electrical tape around receptacles for extra protection. But agree with nunya it makes a mess later.
/tom |
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nunya
SEE ROCK CITY 475 MILES
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
clubs:
 ·AT&T CallVantage
| Here's a little tip for next time: I've never heard them called "madison straps"; we call them "two-men-in-a-boat" or "F" clips. But, if you grab them with a heavy pair of needle nose, the in-box portion will sit perfectly inside the box against the box wall. There are also receptacles which have insulated side screws, or are backwire only (not stab-in, BTW). That way you don't have to tape up the receptacle.
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Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America.
Nancy Pelosi - House Minority Leader 2010
Harry Reid - Senate Minority Leader 2010 |
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gadgetboyj
join:2009-08-25
Staten Island, NY | reply to Swingerhead
I think the ones that you push the wire in the back and the screw hold them in are the best. If not those, regular screw are the best. |
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Willy
Premium
join:2000-09-24
USA | reply to Swingerhead
If it wasn't safe it wouldn't be approved and allowed.
With that said, wrap the wire around the screw.
Less potential problems. |
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whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY | reply to Swingerhead
Another vote against back-stab connections. (Its almost unanimous, isn't it?)
@tshmidt - I've also called the metal old-work straps Madison clips. I guess I learned it from an old-timer. |
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Hollis Hosting
·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
| said by whizkid3 :I guess I learned it from an old-timer. Careful who you call old, I resemble that remark. 
Seriously, I assume these type of nicknames are regional. I'd never hear the other names nunya mentioned.
/tom |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to nunya
said by nunya :If you have to use tape, something has gone terribly wrong. Yep. If I ever see tape on a wirenut, it must mean the wirenut isn't installed/DIYer. You know there is some metal in them, they aren't just a fruity colored thimble.p. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to tschmidt
said by tschmidt :Another vote against spring loaded back-stab receptacles. I don't know how they ever got UL approval. A briefcase of cash for UL to never question the manufacturer's in-house test. Kind of like Federal Pacific equipment. |
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acadiel
Keep trying - don't give up
Premium
join:2002-06-22
Bloomington, IL
·Comcast
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to nunya
said by nunya :If you have to use tape, something has gone terribly wrong. You guys laugh, but people are reading articles like the below:
»www.rd.com/your-home/ask-the-han···896.html
I know professionals would never need, nor use it, but that doesn't stop people from writing articles to Joe Blow about it.
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bjl
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Newport Beach, CA
| If the receptacle moves when you plug something in, something has not been done correctly!
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flickr gallery | photo blog (rarely updated) | play mafia! |
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Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
·T-Mobile US
| reply to Swingerhead
said by Swingerhead : Ive mentioned this to a friend whos an electrician and he about flipped out saying those arent safe and that I need to go back and wrap the wire around the screws on the side. Backstabbed connections are acceptable if done under the following conditions.
1. The wire matches the rating for the device which usually requires using a solid conductor.
2. When the device is placed into the box an extra level of care is taken to ensure the wire does not twist within the backstab as any movement of the wire will score the conductor causing a weakened connection which will fail.
3. After the device is placed you must ensure the wire does not have any tension on it as this over time will cause movement of the conductor within the backstab causing the connection to fail.
4. The device must be completely secured to the box as any movement of the device will subsequently move the conductor within the backstab causing the connection to fail.
Or you can skip 2 through 4 and do it the old fashioned way and place the conductor under the setscrew then properly torque the setscrew and sleep well knowing the connection has little or no chance of failing
Personally anytime if I find a backstabbed device I cut the wire flush to the device, replace the device and use the provided setscrews.
I cant imagine that they make these things and then not be safe. Is there maybe more of a chance of a fire with it that way or some other reasoning that he may have to not use the jam in the hole method? Because they are not unsafe if the above guidelines are strictly followed, however in the real world it is almost impossible to do so, as such never and I repeat never backstab a device.
Wayne
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If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you're not a technician. |
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Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
·T-Mobile US
| reply to joako
said by joako :I find it a pain in the ass to get the wire into the screws properly so I use the backstab method, it has never given me a problem. The easy way to wire a device is to cut the insulation approximately 2 to 3 inches away from the end of the wire, pull back on the insulation exposing an inch or so of the conductor then place the bared conductor on the left side of the setscrew and using the not fully removed insulation as a handle shape the conductor around the setscrew allow it to slightly spring back to clear the threads and then torque the setscrew, once tightened cut the conductor flush with the back of the device and you are done.
Wayne
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If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you're not a technician. |
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