paul248
join:2001-09-04
1 edit | [Other] Voip.ms LNP: Bait-and-switch tactics
I recently signed up for voip.ms, because of their featureful interface and low rates. They offered DID numbers in the "San Jose West" and "Pontiac, MI" rate centers for $4.95/month with unlimited inbound calls.
I decided to port in a couple phone numbers to their service from these two rate centers. One number was from Cingular/AT&T, and the other was from Ameritech/AT&T.
After paying $25 for each, and waiting for the ports to complete, I was shocked to discover that the DID billing page listed an increased rate of $6.95/month for each line. I filed a support ticket about the discrepancy, but after 30 hours, I've received no response.
Basically, voip.ms will attract you with the lower $4.95 rate, and only after you've paid the porting fee and locked yourself in, they'll stick you with a higher bill, even though the rate center is unchanged. Their site provides NO indication of how they decide between these two tiers.
Also, for the non-unlimited plan, these numbers are charged $1.49/month and 1.49 cents/minute, instead of the lower rate of $.99 and 1 cent/minute.
I will update this thread if I learn anything new.
Edit:
After 3 days, I decided to give up waiting for a ticket response, and tried Live Chat instead. The representative confirmed that *all* US ported numbers are billed at the $6.95 or $1.49+$.00149 rate.
He spoke with the programmers, and acknowledged that I had no way of knowing this, and that they'll be updating their porting page to disclose this information.
He also reduced my monthly rate to $4.95/month, but I believe that was just a one-off courtesy because I encountered the problem. |
|
Mango
www.toao.net
join:2008-12-25
Ladner, BC
 ·voip.ms
 ·Shaw
·Callcentric
·LINGO
·Netfone
 ·Digital Voice
| I'm sorry to hear you're having troubles.
I checked out the DID order page for Pontiac, MI. The cost for the flat rate plan is advertised as $6.95. So it looks as if, at least for that number, you are being billed correctly and they did not attempt "bait-and-switch tactics".
I couldn't find a rate centre called "San Jose West". Would you care to post the area code and first three numbers?
I did take a peek at the porting procedure. There was no mention of monthly pricing at any point, at least as far as I saw. So that is something they should correct as it will likely remove the confusion.
m.
--
Who is the best VoIP provider? | Which ATA should I buy? | Dial Plan Tips and Tricks |
|
paul248
join:2001-09-04
1 edit | reply to paul248
The DID prefixes I'm referring to are:
PONTIAC, MI: 248-393-xxxx
SNJS WEST, CA: 408-931-xxxx
The Pontiac DID I'm using temporarily (248-904-xxxx) only cost $4.95/month, and there are $4.95 DIDs listed in SNJS WEST. |
|
N9MD
Premium
join:2005-10-08
Wayne, NJ
·VOIPo
·ViaTalk
·PHONE POWER
·Callcentric
| Look again at the listing shown for the SNJS West rate center. Note that the 408-538-xxxx exchange is indeed $4.95 per month while the 408-648-xxxx exchange is $6.95 per month. Voip.ms often obtains their DIDs from different CLECs within the same rate center ... and the cost to Voip.ms may vary among these CLECs.
It is likely that Voip.ms initiated a porting request with their higher priced CLEC (which will ultimately control your number). Why they did this is beyond my knowledge, but it may be easier for them to port from your old carrier (ATT) to the more expensive new CLEC.
You were not "cheated". Voip.ms has not shown a nefarious side to their operations. Beside contacting their customer service, why not send off a PM (Private Message) to MartinM, a BBR member who represents Voip.ms in the Forums? I'm sure you'll get a truthful answer, even though you might need to accept the $6.95 charge, if that is the only way to get your number ported. |
|
paul248
join:2001-09-04
| There's certainly some nefariousness involved when you're not told before paying for a port how much the number will cost per month.
If multiple CLECs are available, and they're choosing the more expensive option without asking, then it would appear they're making the user pay out-of-pocket just to make their own job easier.
The extra $2/month fee is equivalent to the cost of porting a new number every year. |
|
usa2k
Please PRAY for Rebekah
Premium,MVM
join:2003-01-26
Canton, MI
clubs:
·VOIPo
·WOW Internet and C..
·Broadvox Direct
2 edits | Did you start temporarily with the cheaper fee prior to porting?
A warning of price in that case seems in order.
The rate center for 248-393 is fully owned by AMERITECH MICHIGAN (AT&T).
Within that rate center are the following: »www.telcodata.us/telcodata/ratec···state=MI
A few possibilities like Level3 and XO ...
408-391
NEW CINGULAR WIRELESS PCS, LLC (AT&T Wireless)
408-648
O1 COMMUNICATIONS, INC. - CA
and
METRO PCS, INC. (Metro PCS)
408-538
PAC - WEST TELECOMM, INC.
All at »www.telcodata.us/telcodata/ratec···state=CA
--
Jim, VoIP 12/2002, VOIPo 2/2007
FAH-Tool~Pets~Join Artist-24 |
|
usa2k
Please PRAY for Rebekah
Premium,MVM
join:2003-01-26
Canton, MI
clubs:
·VOIPo
·WOW Internet and C..
·Broadvox Direct
| Where prices can vary like this, quoting the monthly rate would be a great improvement
prior to porting, and the $25 fee being applied.
I doubt it was intentionally misleading,
just a process that can be more customer friendly and informative.
--
Jim, VoIP 12/2002, VOIPo 2/2007
FAH-Tool~Pets~Join Artist-24 |
|
PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2008-08-09
New Jersey
·Callcentric
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·voip.ms
| reply to paul248
said by paul248  :After paying $25 for each, and waiting for the ports to complete, I was shocked to discover that the DID billing page listed an increased rate of $6.95/month for each line. I filed a support ticket about the discrepancy, but after 30 hours, I've received no response..... Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention.
I'm not going to comment on whether or not this problem should be labelled with the harsh language.
Rather, just a technical observation.
As far as I know, this problem could ONLY occur with Voip.MS.
No other Voip company has various different levels of DID pricing within the same rate center, such as in that San Jose area rate center where "PacWest" numbers are 4.95 and "One Communications" numbers are 6.95.
By the way, Pontiac, Michigan today shows as "Carrier Order" only.
Again, Voip.MS is the only company with has various different levels of DID pricing within the same rate center, creating the possibility of such a problem when porting in a number.
-----------------------------------------
(CallCentric does offer some "dirt cheap" numbers, but you CANNOT port into that rate plan, so there is no chance for such a problem to occur). |
|
nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
| said by PX Eliezer :No other Voip company has various different levels of DID pricing within the same rate center, such as in that San Jose area rate center where "PacWest" numbers are 4.95 and "One Communications" numbers are 6.95. And this is exactly WHY we don't have different "levels" on ported numbers. I'd rather lose some margin than have to worry about how much each DID needs to cost and whether the customer is aware or not - it's easier just to bill them all at the same rate and avoid confusion. |
|
topcat5
join:2008-10-20
| reply to paul248
To be fair to VoIP.ms they are low rate because the assumption is the party using their service is familiar with how this stuff works beyond the knowledge of the average consumer. I would assume that it should be apparent that DID pricing is dependent upon the supplier of the DID. BYOD is as close to roll your own as it can get for an individual or small business, but it does come with some risk. That risk can be mitigated by going with someone like Vonage who does the packaging for you but of course with far less flexibility and higher costs. |
|
nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
| said by topcat5 :because the assumption is the party using their service is familiar with how this stuff works beyond the knowledge of the average consumer. While I would love for this to be true - it's a wrong assumption. You wouldn't believe how many "obvious" (to you and me) questions we get asked from people who've had VOIP for years.
I would assume that it should be apparent that DID pricing is dependent upon the supplier of the DID. Why? on the wholesale level the difference between carriers is insignificant. It's a matter of whether it costs you two bucks or three bucks. The differences are just not significant enough to actually NEED to vary the price based on carrier.
If you have a carrier that costs so much more than the others that you actually NEED to change the price - stop using that carrier.
Don't get me wrong- I don't think Voip.MS is trying to be sneaky here. I think it's a genuine mistake in business process which they should fix - nothing more. |
|
trev
join:2009-06-29
Victoria, BC
| reply to PX Eliezer
said by PX Eliezer :Again, Voip.MS is the only company with has various different levels of DID pricing within the same rate center, creating the possibility of such a problem when porting in a number. I have seen this with Vitelity and LES.net as well, just fyi.
--
Wondering what I do? Find out at »www.digitalcon.ca |
|
PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2008-08-09
New Jersey
·Callcentric
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·voip.ms
| said by trev :said by PX Eliezer :Again, Voip.MS is the only company with has various different levels of DID pricing within the same rate center, creating the possibility of such a problem when porting in a number. I have seen this with Vitelity and LES.net as well, just fyi. Do they have different DID pricing in the same rate center?? |
|
trev
join:2009-06-29
Victoria, BC | Yes sir, two different prices depending on which NXX you chose from the particular rate centre.
--
Wondering what I do? Find out at »www.digitalcon.ca |
|
paul248
join:2001-09-04
| reply to topcat5
said by topcat5 :To be fair to VoIP.ms they are low rate because the assumption is the party using their service is familiar with how this stuff works beyond the knowledge of the average consumer. This is not just "beyond knowledge of the average consumer", it's beyond knowledge of anyone without psychic powers. I thought it seemed reasonable to assume that if CLECs were available at $4.95 in the rate center, then voip.ms would port your number to one of those CLECs.
If your number is tied to an ILEC, then shouldn't it be freely assignable to any CLEC? As opposed to a CLEC-specific number, which the CLEC will probably be less-willing to part with.
Based on my limited observations, voip.ms seems to charge $6.95 for all ported numbers. Has anyone managed to port a number and get it for less? |
|
AVonGauss
Premium,MVM
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
| reply to paul248
It will be interesting to see how they respond, I can say from my experience with a port...
1) There was no indication of the rate that I can recall. I also thought that it would be at the same rate for new DIDs at the same rate center.
2) I'm not sure that it's carrier related. In my case, there are already several DIDs at the 0.99 rate with XO Communications. A number was ported from Focal/Broadwing and is now with XO Communications at the $1.49 rate. Same carrier, different rates.
Considering until May of this year when they passed on their discount to their customers with many rate centers going from $1.49 to the $0.99 rate, I believe all US rate centers were at least $1.49. I'm not sure this is a deliberate "bait-and-switch" scenario as I don't recall seeing a similar thread and may just be a case of when the port process adds the DID it is adding it at the prior rate. Like I said, it will be interesting to hear how they respond. |
|
RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Longmont, CO
| reply to paul248
said by paul248 :I recently signed up for voip.ms, because of their featureful interface and low rates. where all this stuff comes from is when consumers are making buying decisions on saving 1 penny a month, or one tenth of a penny per minute. not all VOIP providers will balance (or "blend") costs to accommodate all consumers, because they risk losing the guy that wants to save the 1 penny. so they'll do cost plus, add a markup to every wholesale cost. it's been a long standing convention in the telecom industry that DID numbers in contiguous ranges cost less per number than random numbers. it's not foreign to me that a provider might charge a monthly price for ported in numbers higher than for numbers that they assign themselves. nitzan mentions that he just averages them and charges one blended price. one day, nitzan could be cherry picked by someone doing rate arbitrage (or looking for what they perceive as pricing errors) and rolling a whole bunch of numbers that will be unprofitable for the blended price. you BYODers that use one carrier for inbound and another carrier for outbound do your own form of cherry picking that makes you unprofitable for a carrier that offers a blended pricing model. sure, you have options that are presented, and you're not responsible for protecting your carrier's assets, but when the fees and minimums start being enforced, look in the mirror.
I have no idea of voip.ms' policy and pricing disclosures and what you clicked and didn't click and all that. If their marketing materials don't disclose that the monthly price for a port in is higher than for an assigned number, then there is something in their process that needs to be fixed, and I'll bet they very quietly take care of you in the process. I think it's expecting too much of an end user to have the presence of mind to research pricing differences between a ported in number and an assigned number, so that info certainly must be prominently disclosed.
Just a curiosity question: would you have done the deal if you knew in advance that the ported in number would be at the higher price? |
|
N9MD
Premium
join:2005-10-08
Wayne, NJ
·VOIPo
·ViaTalk
·PHONE POWER
·Callcentric
| reply to AVonGauss
said by AVonGauss :A number was ported from Focal/Broadwing... For those who don't know, Focal Comm and Broadwing Comm were both purchased by Level 3 Communications several years ago ... but some of the CLEC listings in localcallingguide.com and telcodata.us and tnid.org continue to show the original entities. |
|
gtman9
join:2007-05-07
Westford, MA
| reply to paul248
Based on my limited observations, voip.ms seems to charge $6.95 for all ported numbers. Has anyone managed to port a number and get it for less? Eastern Massachusetts U.S. number ported four days ago, from Verizon to VoIP.ms, w/monthly fee of $1.49 & $0.0149/minute. |
|
PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2008-08-09
New Jersey
·Callcentric
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·voip.ms
| said by gtman9 :Based on my limited observations, voip.ms seems to charge $6.95 for all ported numbers. Has anyone managed to port a number and get it for less? Eastern Massachusetts U.S. number ported four days ago, from Verizon to VoIP.ms, w/monthly fee of $1.49 & $0.0149/minute. Apples and orangutans.
The 6.95 is a flat rate plan.
The 1.48 as you mentioned is pay per minute. |
|
