[General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing in VOIP Tech Chat

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:41:40 EDT

PX Eliezer : Lisa Hook, who did so well at SunRocket, now runs the NANPA.

So---I ain't surprised.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:15:06 EDT

said by WAVZuser :

But anyway, to know how you should dial, go to »nanpa.com/nas/public/npa_query_s···ortModel and enter the area code of the number you are dialing from.

I notice that they haven't updated the site to reflect the fact that Home NPA Local Calls from the 312 and 773 area codes now require 11 digits.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:00:32 EDT

PX Eliezer :

said by N9MD :

PX Eliezer's surprisingly terse response is correct. ;)

Thanks. :)

I view my response not as terse, but rather as pithy. ;)

-----------------------------------------

When dealing with:

a) Straightforward questions and answers.
b) Colonoscopies.
c) Injections.
d) Bank robberies.

....my view is that they should be carefully planned, but then in actually doing it, it's best to go in and out quickly..... :p

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:59:28 EDT

WAVZuser :

said by N9MD :

On the other hand, as has been mentioned, I am constantly confused by the inconsistent POTS dialing requirements for "local", "local long distance", "intrastate/interlata", "interstate" calling --- throughout the US.

Yes, it has become a clusterfuck in recent years. It could have been handled better.

But anyway, to know how you should dial, go to »nanpa.com/nas/public/npa_query_s···ortModel and enter the area code of the number you are dialing from.

This will tell you what the dialing requirements are if you are using POTS or a cell phone. (But remember, even in situations where a leading 1 is required by POTS it's still not required on a cell phone.)

VoIP is generally 7, 10, or 11 digits on calls to the same area code and 10 or 11 to calls to a different area code.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:35:36 EDT

N9MD :

said by PX Eliezer :

said by joako :

Also what about cell phone users? I can dial 10 digits anywhere in the country and I am pretty used to that (same thing from my voip phones) does this mean to call Chicago now I need to dial 11 digits from a mobile phone?

Not at all.

PX Eliezer's surprisingly terse response is correct. ;) I've used my ATT/Cingular/CellularOne (all the same company at one time or another) cell phone in Hawaii, Alaska, Southern CA, Seattle, Maine, Florida ... coveing all "corners" of the US ... making calls to lots of US locations ... with and without the leading "1". All of the calls have been completed successfully.

On the other hand, as has been mentioned, I am constantly confused by the inconsistent POTS dialing requirements for "local", "local long distance", "intrastate/interlata", "interstate" calling --- throughout the US.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:59:14 EDT

PX Eliezer :

Not at all.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:46:29 EDT

joako :

said by WAVZuser :

The 872 area code is still not activated by my local Vonage carrier (Level3, formerly Focal). If I call the test number 872-872-1872 I get an error message.

When I call it from my Virgin Mobile (Sprint) cell phone, on the other hand, it goes through.

I get the message "Welcome to Verizon wireless. You can can not be completed. Please check the number..." when I call that test #. Similar message from AT&T phones.

Also what about cell phone users? I can dial 10 digits anywhere in the country and I am pretty used to that (same thing from my voip phones) does this mean to call Chicago now I need to dial 11 digits from a mobile phone?
--
PRescott7-2097

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:35:24 EDT

WAVZuser :

said by PX Eliezer :

Thank God we don't have to dial 10 or 11 digits on a rotary phone!

I just timed it, using the old rotary phone I still have from my childhood home. (Yes, I'm old.)

It took seven seconds to dial 1-909. 909 is the area code with the largest number of rotary pulses.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:20:27 EDT

WAVZuser :

said by PX Eliezer :

It is interesting that so much attention is being paid to this one area code change.

Do you mean here on this forum or in general?

I don't think it's getting more attention than the other changes in general, but it may be here, simply because someone opened a thread about it.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:32:55 EDT

PX Eliezer : Thank God we don't have to dial 10 or 11 digits on a rotary phone!

-------------------------

It is interesting that so much attention is being paid to this one area code change. So many area code changes all the time, all over the country.

New area codes just this year also include 475 (CT), 681 (WV), 385 (UT), 442 (CA), 458 (OR), 747 (CA), and others.

Why so much fuss about Chicago? New York City has added so many area codes over the years....

-------------------------

Here's one guy whose multi-million dollar house burned down because he didn't update his alarm system with a new area code:

»www.dailynews.com/news/ci_12259447

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:11:27 EDT

WAVZuser : The test number is working with Vonage now.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:45:58 EDT

garys_2k : My Future 9 line reached 872-872-1872 with no problems, I got the voice reply. My Callcentric line gave me dead air.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Sun, 08 Nov 2009 03:49:25 EDT

WAVZuser : If I'm understanding the situation correctly, here is what's happening:

----------------------------

If your area code is 312 or 773 and:

You are a landline (ILEC) customer you must now dial all calls as 11 digits, whereas you were previously able to dial local calls within the same area code as 7 digits.

You are a cell phone customer you must dial all local calls as 10 or 11 digits, whereas 7 digits were allowed in the same area code.

You are a Voip customer, in most cases you can still dial 7, 10, or 11 digits to numbers with the same area code.

-----

If you get an 872 number:

Dial all numbers as 11 digits on a landline, or 10 on a cell phone. For obvious reasons, there was never 7-digit local dialing on overlay area code 872.

But you will be able to dial all other 872 numbers with just 7 digits on most VoIP providers.

----

If your area code is any other:

You dial the number just as you always have, but will not be able to dial calls into the new area code 872 until your phone company makes it active in their network, which some apparently still haven't.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Sun, 08 Nov 2009 02:56:38 EDT

WAVZuser :

said by N9MD :

Thus, the problem reflects the failure of Vonage

Yes, that's exactly what I was saying.

I guess we misunderstood each other's posts. I thought you were saying that the test number should not have been activated or available at all for any company to connect to before the area code effective date. I interpreted your quoting the effective date of number assignments with the new area code to mean that that is when you thought those carriers should be able to make outgoing calls to a/c 872.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:48:08 EDT

N9MD :

said by usa2k :

said by N9MD :

My PhonePower DID connected and got that message.

The one I attached earlier? Or a message of success?

"You have reached the new overlay 872-872-1872 test number."

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:44:55 EDT

jay_rm :

said by N9MD :

I cannot check VOIPo 'cause I'm not in my Florida location at the moment.

My VOIPo account gave me the 6-3 error message noted above.

My VIATALK account got me through to the proper recording.

Both tests were from numbers within the SAME local exchange number block, in a far suburban Chicago area code.
--
3500/512 5.7 GHz Motorola Canopy Wireless; FoxValley.net
'It looks just like a Telefunken U47 !'

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 14:49:00 EDT

mel2000 : My T-mobile cellphone connects to 872-872-1872 just fine, but my Google Voice call to it via Sipgate just rings and rings.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 13:50:19 EDT

usa2k :

said by N9MD :

My PhonePower DID connected and got that message.

The one I attached earlier? Or a message of success?

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 12:26:07 EDT

N9MD :

said by RockyBB :

Did you not see my post above?

I bow to your omniscience, RockyBB. I have to play closer attention! ;)

said by Fisamo :

I just successfully connected with my Verizon Wireless phone (based in NC). "You have reached the new overlay area code 872-872-1872 test number."

My PhonePower DID connected and got that message. My CallCentric and Voip.ms accounts just gave me dead air. I cannot check VOIPo 'cause I'm not in my Florida location at the moment.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 12:23:19 EDT

RockyBB :

said by Stewart :

said by RockyBB :

Whatever CLEC handles your DID is not relevant to outgoing calls. This is VOIP, which is virtual, not POTS that has physical lines. DID = Direct INWARD Dialing.

IMHO that is not always true.

not always true, but I didn't say it's never true ... in your case it was coincidentally true due to the nature of the negotiated deal, which other carriers might not negotiate ... nevertheless your anecdote does not contradict my assessment as SR was evaluating the phone number before deciding what to do with it. In the case in this thread, if SR didn't know about the new area code, it wouldn't have a translation built and would block the call prior to passing it off to whatever termination carrier. So in our discussion about this test number for the area code overlay the Vonage customers should be blaming Vonage not their DID CLEC carrier.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 12:11:43 EDT

Stewart :

said by RockyBB :

Whatever CLEC handles your DID is not relevant to outgoing calls. This is VOIP, which is virtual, not POTS that has physical lines. DID = Direct INWARD Dialing.

IMHO that is not always true. In the early days of SunRocket, I had a problem with popping noises that seemed to only affect local calls. I noticed that if I registered under a signature number in a distant city, calls to my hometown became unimpaired. I couldn't understand how that could possibly make a difference, until one of the higher level support guys explained it:

Their routing software analyzed the calling and called numbers; 'local' calls were then sent to the CLEC serving the calling number, rather than choosing the least cost route. With most of their CLECs, SR was able to negotiate better rates for DIDs, by agreeing to use the CLEC to terminate calls in their area.

A big technical advantage was also promised, but it never happened: On local calls, the RTP stream would be routed to the CLEC's media server in your area, greatly reducing latency. AFAIK Teleblend still forces all media streams through their border controllers.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 11:27:55 EDT

Fisamo : Except... I just successfully connected with my Verizon Wireless phone (based in NC). "You have reached the new overlay area code 872-872-1872 test number."

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 11:27:13 EDT

RockyBB :

said by N9MD :

Thus, the problem reflects the failure of Vonage ... or the CLEC that controls your DID ... or the routing service used by the CLEC ... to update the Routing Table used for your DID's outgoing calls.

Did you not see my post above? Whatever CLEC handles your DID is not relevant to outgoing calls. This is VOIP, which is virtual, not POTS that has physical lines. DID = Direct INWARD Dialing.

Let's not forget the basics. DID numbers assigned by CLECs when dialed deliver calls to VOIP carrier. There is no direct connection or relationship between end user and CLEC. When end user makes an outbound call it's sent to final destination using whatever long haul facilities or gateways VOIP carrier designates at the moment, completely unrelated to the DID number of the end-user.

So the CLEC of the DID number has nothing to do with the completion of outbound calls.

Just like some of our friends here choose one carrier for incoming calls, and another carrier for outgoing calls, VOIP providers do the same thing.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 09:40:43 EDT

usa2k : That is a great epiphany!

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 09:37:39 EDT

N9MD :

said by usa2k :

I get a 6-3 error from VOIPo dialing 872-872-1872.

I'm not absolutely, completely, totally, conclusively, unconditionally certain ... but I believe that this specific local test number is only usable from a Chicago area phone line with a 773, 312 or 872 AC. The only purpose for this number is to confirm the dialing pattern that a Chicagoan must use to reach the new AC872 numbers --- 11-, 10- or 7-digit dialing. It would be of no use to people outside the Chicago area codes since all of those outsiders would have to use 11-digit dialing (from PSTN phones).

The light dawns! If my thinking is correct, then Vonage and other VoIP services, even those in the Chicago area, will never be able to use the test number successfully ... because the VoIP dial plans and internet to PSTN connection are handled differently.

EDIT: As per RockyBB's and Fisamo's posts below, my theory has been shot full of holes. :(

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 09:14:26 EDT

usa2k : I get a 6-3 error from VOIPo dialing 872-872-1872.

[att=1]

Likely Level3 or such. I would expect all VOIPo calls go 11 digits when dialing 7/10/11 and speed dials.

BTW: That was *28 872-872-1872 for VOIPo Call Record.
(Same if without *28 dialed.)

8728721872_2···0911.wav 206,764 bytes

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 09:07:29 EDT

N9MD :

said by WAVZuser :

But the whole point of the test number ...

...I know that I was able to dial it with Virgin Mobile (Sprint) since at least a couple of weeks ago

By your own reporting, the test number works with Virgin Mobile. Thus, the problem reflects the failure of Vonage ... or the CLEC that controls your DID ... or the routing service used by the CLEC ... to update the Routing Table used for your DID's outgoing calls.

Here's the relevant paragraph from your NANPA reference:

NETWORK TESTING
All international and domestic carriers should insure that the new 872 NPA has been activated throughout their networks. The test number to verify the routing to the new 872 NPA is 872-872-1872 and will be available starting October 14, 2009 until December 7, 2009. A recorded announcement will indicate that the test call has been successfully completed.

Some additional information may be gained from this post from April 2009: »groups.yahoo.com/group/centralof···age/5565
Scroll down to ILLINOIS.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 07:59:58 EDT

usa2k :

said by WAVZuser :

said by N9MD :

This suggests that most provider's Routing Tables have probably not yet been updated to include these exchanges ... including the 872-872-1872 number.

But the whole point of the test number is for phone companies, ...

What do you hear if successful?
--

Jim, VoIP 12/2002, VOIPo 2/2007
FAH-Tool~Pets~Join Artist-24

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 04:39:34 EDT

WAVZuser :

said by wierdo :

Never say never. Toll alerting used to be very common, and indeed still is among some landline carriers.

Toll alerting is still very common in the US. AFAIK, it's required of the local landline company in every state except California, New York, Illinois, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, and Maine, whose residents are somehow supposed to know what is a toll call and what isn't.

Other than in those states, a local call has to go thru as seven digits if to the same area code, or ten if to a different area code or the same area code in an overlay. But a leading 1 must be required for all toll calls, even in the same area code.

said by wierdo :

Prior to the area code expansion, within the area code one could dial 1+7 digits to other exchanges in the area code. (Which in Arkansas at the time was the entire state) Allowing 2-8 in the middle digit of the area code required going to 11 digits for long distance so as to disambiguate exchanges and area codes.

Actually it was a similar but different change that preceded the area code expansion that caused that. To make new numbers available without creating new area codes, 0 or 1 was allowed as the middle digit of the exchange. So to make a long distance call within your area code 11 digits became necessary as the switch no longer had any way of determining whether the 3 digits following the 1 were an area code or an exchange.

This happened as early as 1974, in area code 213, and continued in other area codes throughout the following years. But area codes with middle digits other than 0 or 1 weren't supportable until 1995.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 04:37:16 EDT

soitgoes2 :

said by wierdo :

Never say never. Toll alerting used to be very common, and indeed still is among some landline carriers.
...Prior to the area code expansion, within the area code one could dial 1+7 digits to other exchanges in the area code.

Yep. Here from the landlines you can't dial long distance within our area code unless you dial a 1 (eight digit dialing OR 11 digit dialing, both work). If you just dial 7 digits, you get a message saying that you must first dial a 1 as it is long distance.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Sat, 07 Nov 2009 04:17:44 EDT

WAVZuser :

said by N9MD :

This suggests that most provider's Routing Tables have probably not yet been updated to include these exchanges ... including the 872-872-1872 number.

But the whole point of the test number is for phone companies, PBX operators, etc. to verify that their users will be able to dial the new area code as of the effective date. It's been available since 10/14. See PL-392, under "network testing."

»nanpa.com/pdf/PL_392.pdf

I know that I was able to dial it with Virgin Mobile (Sprint) since at least a couple of weeks ago, and I imagine the same is true for most of the major landline companies and cellphone providers worldwide. But even as of now, technically the area code's effective date, it's still not dialable on Vonage.

Maybe they'll have fixed it by Monday, or maybe they'll wait until customers try to dial the area code and can't. Who knows? I just find it a little surprising.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:26:09 EDT

wierdo :

said by nycityny :

Well, dialing "1" has never been a signal of whether a call is free or long distance.

Never say never. Toll alerting used to be very common, and indeed still is among some landline carriers.

AT&T Southwest (formerly Southwestern Bell) still uses it in my area. You can't dial a toll call without 11 digits. Of course, it has much less value these days now that a lot of people are on unlimited long distance plans or have extended area calling plans.

Prior to the area code expansion, within the area code one could dial 1+7 digits to other exchanges in the area code. (Which in Arkansas at the time was the entire state) Allowing 2-8 in the middle digit of the area code required going to 11 digits for long distance so as to disambiguate exchanges and area codes.
--
It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word. ;)

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:08:08 EDT

anon : Question:
My company has an Avaya phone system. We have Incoming Call Routes that state if a call comes from 312-555-5555, for example, then route that call through a specific call attendant menu (dial 1 for human, 2 for fax number, 3 for directions, etc.)

After Saturday, will the telcos change the Incoming Caller ID to include the "1"? If so, then my incoming call route 'rules' will break, as they are based on a 10 digit incoming number.

I havent seen any mention of changes in what appears for the Incoming Caller ID once this overlay takes effect.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 13:34:35 EDT

josephf : The FCC generally (assuming it doesn't issue an exemption) requires by regulation, 10/11 digit dialing in areas with an overlay. Their logic is that it evens the playing field for CLEC's which are more likely than the ILEC's to have assigned their customers numbers in the new (overlayed) area code.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 12:38:24 EDT

PX Eliezer :

said by RockyBB :

no, the FCC does not regulate dialed digits. It's the North American Numbering Plan Administration, which is an arm of Neustar, Inc. and funded by all the telcos.

Rocky:

This 11 digit policy actually was a previous FCC reg, but I believe they now modified it to allow 10 or 11 digits. (Certainly here in NJ we have multiple area codes and overlays, but can use 10 digits with Verizon).

"This FCC requirement is designed to ensure that competing local phone companies are not disadvantaged by the use of an "overlay" area code. Thus, customers of all local phone companies have to dial the same number of digits to place a call, putting all customers in the same situation - on a level playing field. The mandatory 1 + 10-digit dialing ensures uniform dialing requirements for all local phone customers in regions served by overlay area codes."

---That's from the New York State Public Service Commission (NYS-PSC) and I have also come across it on the FCC's own pages.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 12:03:19 EDT

RockyBB : no, the FCC does not regulate dialed digits. It's the North American Numbering Plan Administration, which is an arm of Neustar, Inc. and funded by all the telcos.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 10:34:29 EDT

josephf : The FCC regulates when and where POTS can allow users to dial 7-digits or 10/11 digits.

Very arcane rules.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 08:23:13 EDT

PX Eliezer :

said by Fisamo :

....what's the advantage of 11-digits over 10 if you have to do it for all calls? It makes sense to use the 1 to separate local/long distance, or if it's needed by the switching equipment to properly route calls. But if required for all calls, I don't see how it's needed by the switching equipment...

Exactly.

And of course it is NOT needed when calling on cellphones!

The only thing I can think of is that the POTS companies have some VERY old switches that are hardwired in this way. So old that they are able to handle either a 7-digit "local" call, or an 11-digit call, but nothing else. In other words, a switch so old that use of an area code automatically meant "non-local" or LD, hence the use of the preceding "1". A local call was 7 digits, all other calls were 1 + AC + number.

I was talking recently to an engineer for Lucent (Alcatel-Lucent) who told me that his company still maintains some EXTREMELY old switches for ATT, Verizon, etc. (remember Lucent inherited most of the old Western Electric---the manufacturing arm of the old Bell System).

The POTS companies don't want to replace switches until they fail. That's because they don't want to invest the money. I imagine that it's a massive job as well. (Verizon's CEO recently declared that landline phone service is NOT the future for Verizon, and we know they are trying to get rid of their landlines by dumping them on other companies).

A lot of these switches are so old, that only a few guys still really know how to maintain them. Some people who were retired from Lucent have been lured back.

I suppose it is similar to the problem of maintaining any other type of old, old machinery where only the geezers know how to care for it.

--------------------------------

Again, cellphones don't have this issue---their central office hardware is far newer than what the POTS companies are stuck with.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 05:29:32 EDT

Fisamo : A good point. AFAIK, in CT today, local calls are 7-digit (soon to change, probably, as 203 and 860 are both nearing exhaustion), long distance calls (same or different area code) are 11-digit.

Kearnstd hits the $64MM question that I meant to ask--what's the advantage of 11-digits over 10 if you have to do it for all calls? It makes sense to use the 1 to separate local/long distance, or if it's needed by the switching equipment to properly route calls. But if required for all calls, I don't see how it's needed by the switching equipment...

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 02:17:18 EDT

Kearnstd : i have never heard of 11 digit dialing for anything then long distance, what advantage would it hold over 10 digit when with in the same metro area?
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 22:40:19 EDT

Anonymous_ :

said by nycityny :

said by burgerwars :

The "1" was probably needed many years ago before electronic switching. I think it can go away by now, or at least make it optional.

At least that's what we were told in Los Angeles oh so many decades ago.

with TWC digital phone you only have input

4 # for speed dial

7# for locals if you call some one not on your fav speed dial list

or

10# for any other area code

there is no need to press "1" first for any us area code

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:41:11 EDT

PX Eliezer : .

Let's remember that "1" is also our country code for the USA, Canada, and portions of the Caribbean that participate in the North American Dialing Plan.

Some common country codes:

1: USA/Canada (also some Caribbean)

7: Russian Federation

33: France

44: UK

55: Brazil

86: China

91: India

--------------------------------------

Gee, wonder how the US got Country Code # 1?

Could it be because the US designed the system? :uhh:

As Cecil Turtle said to Bugs Bunny after outsmarting him in a race, "It's a Possibility!"

Cecil Turtle, BTW, just about the only guy who put one over on Bugs.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:20:31 EDT

N9MD :

said by Fisamo :

But back in the day

»Re: Pop Quiz

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:14:59 EDT

N9MD : In Northern NJ we have 201/551 area codes (one overlay region in the Northeast) and 973/862 area codes (another overlay region in North Central NJ). From PSTN, we can dial 10 or 11 digits among any and all of these area codes ... but we must dial 11 digits to the rest of NJ and for out-of-state calls, too.

In Boca Raton (Palm Beach COunty FL), I am constantly confused by the need for 11-digit dialing for some calls and 10-digit dialing for others within the same area code 561.

And just think, in another 10 years we may have to start with 11-digit phone numbers prefixed by "1-" for a total of 12 digits. The addition of an added digit to each phone number was carried out in Costa Rica in March of 2008.

»www.flyertalk.com/forum/central-···ers.html

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:19:51 EDT

Fisamo : I admit I'm nit-picking... and going OT... :D

But back in the day in SNET country, the "1" absolutely was used to signal 'local call' or 'long distance' call. It may not have been that way in some parts of the country, but I just caution you against the 'never' comment in your earlier post. In fact, the switch controlling my town allowed 5-digit calling (last digit of the CO code, then the 4 digits of the telephone number) until 1988 or 1989. Otherwise, local calls were 7 digits, in-area-code long distance calls were 8 digits (1+7-digit-TN), and out-area-code calls were all 11 digits.

Also, the middle digit restriction of 0 or 1 for area codes was in place until 1995 ( see »www.nanpa.com/area_codes/index.html ) and was a way of telling switching systems whether the caller was making an in-area-code call or an out-of-area-code call. (The Central Office codes (middle 3 numbers of a phone number - for example, 555 in 919-555-1212) at one point did not allow 0 or 1 as the middle digit.)

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:49:40 EDT

PhonePower : Mandatory 10 and 11 digit dialing is becoming very commonplace due to area code overlays.

My guess is that dated telco switches can not tell whether you are in the same area code or not.

I believe most Voip companies including Phone Power still offer 7 digit same area code dialing across the country.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:47:54 EDT

gdm : RockyBB I understand that I was pointing out that it currently isn't 11 digits!

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:36:52 EDT

nycityny :

said by burgerwars :

The "1" was probably needed many years ago before electronic switching. I think it can go away by now, or at least make it optional.

Sad to say, I remember when the "1" was implemented.

Prior to the "1" all area codes had a second digit of either a zero or a one. All telephone prefixes were NOT allowed to have a second digit of zero or one. So if the second digit being dialed was a zero or a one, the system knew that an area code was being dialed and that the call was going to a different area code.

In order to expand the availability of different area code and prefix combinations, the requirement to dial "1" before an area code was implemented. Then if the first number dialed was a "1" the system knew that an area code was to follow. If the first number dialed was not a "1" then only a seven digit number was being dialed.

At least that's what we were told in Los Angeles oh so many decades ago.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:32:46 EDT

RockyBB :

said by gdm :

For 630 that might be the case but downtown for 312 you do not need to dial 11 digits just the 7 and I believe 773 is that way as well.

starting November 7 all direct dial calls on Bell lines in 312/773/872 are 1+ 10D, even for local calls in the same area code. that's the topic of this thread. whatever it was doesn't matter any more.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:30:18 EDT

VR Laura :

said by josephf :

10 digit dialing works within the area code, in NYC.

I never knew that! Cool!
--
»www.queenofcyberspace.com/usenet

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:18:29 EDT

burgerwars : "1" doesn't mean anything in the 818, other than I need to dial it on a POTS line no matter what (within the 818 or local or toll in any other area code).

The "1" was probably needed many years ago before electronic switching. I think it can go away by now, or at least make it optional.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:08:27 EDT

gdm : For 630 that might be the case but downtown for 312 you do not need to dial 11 digits just the 7 and I believe 773 is that way as well.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:07:03 EDT

BoulderHill1 :

said by gdm :

The article is a bit misleading. If you were in the same area code 773, 630 or 312 you could dial 7 digits.

This is not true. Even if you dial to the same area code you still need to dial 1 + the area code to make the call. City, suburbs, everywhere.

I live in chicago area and in the 630 area code to be exact. If I want to call down the block to another 630 area number I must dial 1 + 630 + number. Of course using the cell the 1 is not needed but still can be dialed.

This 11 digit dialing has been the case here for two years or so.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:30:14 EDT

nitzan :

said by garys_2k :

For example, F9 supports 7 or 10 digit dialing. If you lived in Chicagoland would they have to do anything differently if routing a call to that area?

While we accept 7 and 10 digit calls on our side - our server translates to 11 digit format before sending the calls to the carrier. So barring something REALLY weird going on - there should be no changes needed.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:18:12 EDT

usa2k : In the good old days in Canada it was the difference between local and LD. I leaned quickly over here about local toll calls.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:14:55 EDT

nycityny :

said by nonymous :

If you always have to dial the one then what is the reason for the one? Thought it was or used to be a way to tell if it was a long distance call. If you always need it then you have no clue if its local or long distance or a call that charges extra.

Well, dialing "1" has never been a signal of whether a call is free or long distance. Some calls within an area code are toll calls (i.e., some within 818 or within 323 area codes) while some calls between area codes are free local calls (some 323 to 818 calls, for example).

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:37:05 EDT

nonymous : If you always have to dial the one then what is the reason for the one? Thought it was or used to be a way to tell if it was a long distance call. If you always need it then you have no clue if its local or long distance or a call that charges extra.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:30:53 EDT

nycityny :

said by josephf :

10 digit dialing works within the area code, in NYC.

Hmmm...I didn't even know as I have not had a POTS line in 4 years. When I did have one I guess I could have used 10-digit dialing within 212...

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:25:28 EDT

josephf :

said by nycityny :

said by PX Eliezer :

Here in northern and central NJ we have had mandatory 10 digit dialing for several years, likewise in NYC.

Uh, here in NYC it's 11-digit dialing:

»www.vzmultimedia.com/customersup···ork.html

10 digit dialing works within the area code, in NYC.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:22:30 EDT

nycityny :

said by PX Eliezer :

Here in northern and central NJ we have had mandatory 10 digit dialing for several years, likewise in NYC.

Uh, here in NYC it's 11-digit dialing:

»www.vzmultimedia.com/customersup···ork.html

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:08:08 EDT

SLD : In the Houston area, you often don't know if it is 10 or 11. The best part is if you dial 11, you get a message that the extra 1 is not needed. Oh, and they wont' connect you call (gee, thanks!). If you dial 10 when 11 are required, you get a cannot connect message. How hard can it be to strike the extra 1 if they already know you don't need it?

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:54:59 EDT

burgerwars : I think we're getting near the point where everyone in North America should just dial 10 digits. Save the 1 for something else. 10 digits work from a cellphone, so why not POTS. I agree with the dial plan comment. One can manipulate it in countless ways on a Linksys/Sipura to do just about anything with whatever patterns of digits are entered.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:37:54 EDT

gdm : The article is a bit misleading. If you were in the same area code 773, 630 or 312 you could dial 7 digits. If you were in a 312 area code and dialed a 773/630 then yes you had to dial 11 digits.

11 digits will still be required for POTS lines. Cell and most VoIP can do 10 digits.

Suburbs have required this for awhile now.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:37:47 EDT

RockyBB :

do not attribute outgoing calls to the carrier Vonage uses for inbound service to your phone number. If calls to the test number fail, it's Vonage's switches and routing that needs fixing, not necessarily Level 3's.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:29:18 EDT

PX Eliezer : "Until now, the city has been spared 11-digit dialing for local calls. Chicagoans have been able, for instance, to dial just seven digits to call from one number in 312 to another."

»www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1863···.article

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:24:30 EDT

jay_rm : "Chicago" has been 11 digit dialing for years ! We've got something like 8 area codes in NE Illinois !

Watcha' talkin' about ? ? I must be misunderstanding your post :)
--
3500/512 5.7 GHz Motorola Canopy Wireless; FoxValley.net
'It looks just like a Telefunken U47 !'

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 08:22:03 EDT

N9MD :

Checking the »www.telcodata.us/telcodata/telco···xchange= and »www.localcallingguide.com/lca_pr···xtdays=0 pages indicates that only a few exchanges in AC872 have been assigned by NANPA thus far ... and none have become active yet.

»www.nanpa.com/nas/public/npa_que···splayNpa

This suggests that most provider's Routing Tables have probably not yet been updated to include these exchanges ... including the 872-872-1872 number.


Assigned with future release date
872-222-xxxx Chicago Zone 03-Kildare    Denali Spectrum  Eff.Date 11/07/2009
872-201-xxxx Chicago Zone 07-Stewart    Verizon Wireless Eff.Date 12/07/2009
 
Assigned but no release date
872-200-xxxx Ameritech (ATT)
872-213-xxxx Nextel (Sprint)
872-958-xxxx Ameritech (ATT)
872-959-xxxx Ameritech (ATT)
 
Assigned but no provider shown
872-300-xxxx    872-312-xxxx    872-412-xxxx    872-500-xxxx
872-700-xxxx    872-773-xxxx    872-872-xxxx   872-900-xxxx
872-950-xxxx    872-958-xxxx    872-976-xxxx
 
Exist but will never be assigned to a provider (Reserved Exchange)
872-211-xxxx    872-311-xxxx    872-511-xxxx    872-611-xxxx
872-711-xxxx    872-811-xxxx    872-911-xxxx

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 07:42:37 EDT

PX Eliezer : Works on CallWithUs but not yet on CallCentric.

872 spells USA. Will folks want to grab these numbers? Should encourage acceptance, anyway.

Should be an easier process than when Seinfeld's friend Elaine had to get a 646 when she lost her 212.

Appropriate that the 872/USA area code should be in Chicago, start of America's Main Street, Route 66.

»www.legendsofamerica.com/66-Info.html

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 02:55:46 EDT

WAVZuser : The 872 area code is still not activated by my local Vonage carrier (Level3, formerly Focal). If I call the test number 872-872-1872 I get an error message.

When I call it from my Virgin Mobile (Sprint) cell phone, on the other hand, it goes through.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 01:02:11 EDT

PX Eliezer :

said by Mango :

What is the reason for this? Here in Vancouver, with the POTS companies, 10-digit dialing means it's a local call and 11 means it's a toll call. How will people in Chicago know whether a call is local or toll?

Mango, here in Sopranoland, that's a non-issue.

--------------------------------------------

How I first got into Voip:

My wife was friendly with a woman who lived just 2 miles away, and still in the same town as us. Same area code, of course. But it was a TOLL CALL!

Further study showed that two parties simply ACROSS THE STREET from each other could constitute a Toll Call for Verizon. Again, no municipal boundary involved, it was still the same town.

On the other hand, my Verizon local calling plan included FREE calls to a town 20 MILES AWAY in a different area code (Hightstown---609).

So Verizon said:

Across the street (same town): Toll Call.

20 miles away, different county, different area code: Free.

-------------------------------------

That's how and why I became a Voiper!

And ironically, it was the weekend that SunRocket died!

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:52:54 EDT

PX Eliezer :

said by gbh2o :

The 10 digit local call format is pretty standard in most US cities I have experienced with either overlays or multiple local geographically separate area codes. If one dials the leading 1 for a local AC, an intercept will normally notify one that it is not necessary to dial the one. Chicago/Illinois demanding 11 digit dialing will pretty well muck up the works if they require the 1 for local calls; I'm had pressed to conceive of any valid reason for it.

I can't either.

Here in northern and central NJ we have had mandatory 10 digit dialing for several years, likewise in NYC.

There are a boatload of area codes AND many of the new codes are overlays.

If we don't need to use 11 digits in this environment, I wonder why Chicago needs it?

Maybe the extra "1" is the ghost of Al Capone giving everyone the finger?

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:40:00 EDT

gbh2o :

The 10 digit local call format is pretty standard in most US cities I have experienced with either overlays or multiple local geographically separate area codes. If one dials the leading 1 for a local AC, an intercept will normally notify one that it is not necessary to dial the one. Chicago/Illinois demanding 11 digit dialing will pretty well muck up the works if they require the 1 for local calls; I'm had pressed to conceive of any valid reason for it.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:05:02 EDT

Mango : What is the reason for this? Here in Vancouver, with the POTS companies, 10-digit dialing means it's a local call and 11 means it's a toll call. How will people in Chicago know whether a call is local or toll?

m.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:58:37 EDT

usa2k : I expect providers already send 11 digits no matter what you dial.

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:37:49 EDT

garys_2k : Oh, I know that -- it's just whether a provider like F9, Callcentric, Vonage would have to change their settings for calls to the PSTN.

For example, F9 supports 7 or 10 digit dialing. If you lived in Chicagoland would they have to do anything differently if routing a call to that area?

Re: [General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:35:11 EDT

crazyk4952 : If you have a PAP2T, you can program a dial plan to support 7 digit dialing.

[General] Chicago Going to 11 Digit Dialing

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:06:56 EDT

garys_2k : Will this have any impact on VoIP calls to PSTN numbers? I doubt it, because a VoIP-originated call is delivered right to the CO of the called party, I think.

Anyway, I wonder if outbound CID could have the "1" prefixed, or would need to.