TGM_Milenko
join:2004-12-17
Bloomsburg, PA
|  Flow check valve replacement
Faulty valve |
I need to replace the flow check valve on my hydronic heating system. The current valve is a Watts number 2000. I've attached a pic of the installed valve. My first question is about the M15 designation on my current valve. I've seen new valves labeled M5 and M10, but not M15. Anyone know what the "M" designation means?
My second question is about the replacement method. In the attached pic, the lower copper pipe is the feed from the furnace and the iron pipe leading from the valve in the upper right heads out to the heating loop in the house. I'm thinking of draining the system and de-soldering the bottom copper fitting and then unscrewing the valve from the threaded iron pipe. Sound like that'll work?
The last question is about the pipe size. I've measured the pipe and it's 1 3/8" OD. Valves seem to come in 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" varieties. Not sure which one I'd need since I don't know what those measurements specify.
-Jeremy |
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bent
not broken
Premium
join:2004-10-04
Loveland, CO
clubs:
 ·Comcast Formerly ..
| No idea about the M designation.
Pipe size table: »www.sizes.com/materls/pipeCopper.htm
Your plan will work fine, but you should think about removing the iron pipe from the next fitting and re-doping and re-seating it. Chances are in removing the valve you'll loosen that next connection even with a good hold-back wrench.
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Greedy Old Pigs |
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TGM_Milenko
join:2004-12-17
Bloomsburg, PA | Thanks for the link on the pipe sizes. That's a handy reference to have. |
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K Patterson
Premium,MVM
join:2006-03-12
Columbus, OH | Except it doesn't cover iron pipe, which is how that valve is sized.
In principal, iron pipe is sized by the ID of a schedule 40 pipe. 1" pipe has an OD of 1.315"
I would call the maker to ask about the "M" designation. |
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cosmicvoid
Infinity Or Bust
join:2001-01-02
Kingston, WA | reply to TGM_Milenko
Just an idea: put a union in one of those legs when you re-assemble it, so that the next time you have to deal with it, no (un)soldering is needed. |
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bent
not broken
Premium
join:2004-10-04
Loveland, CO
clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..
| reply to K Patterson
»www.plumbingsupply.com/pipethreadsizing.html
Theres a link for NPT sizes, but unless my scale is way off, that doesn't look like 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 pipe. 1" would be my guess, that table says the OD on 1" is roughly 1 5/16, pretty damn near 1 3/8.
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Greedy Old Pigs |
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TGM_Milenko
join:2004-12-17
Bloomsburg, PA
| Thanks for the info bent. I don't have a set of calipers to measure it with, so I just held the tape up and eyeballed it. It could easily be 1 5/16".
Once I find a replacement valve (HD and Lowes don't seem to carry them and the one local hardware store I checked wanted $70!!) I think I'll actually cut the copper pipe and install a union as suggested in case I ever need to do this again. Then I won't have to try and de-solder the copper fitting either. |
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zen1
@optonline.net
| reply to TGM_Milenko
it looks like 1" just bring the valve to a PLUMBING SUPPLY they'll get you the right one at a good price and never solder near a threaded joint that you are putting together, it'll burn up the pipe dope! and could leak.. also, some components can be destroyed by heat, especially if it has platic parts inside that you can't see.. |
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tp0d
yabbazooie
Premium
join:2001-02-13
Carnegie, PA
clubs:
 ·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | reply to TGM_Milenko
Um, I dont see the point in this valve. First off, being a 2 way check, the 2nd check port is unused. The only reason to install a valve like this is to combine two feeds into one output. Being that you are only using one side, the valve is useless.
Now, if you have a multiple zone system, its possible you may need this valve, but there are a lot better ways to route zones.
Also, these type of valves rarely fail, because of the lack of corrosion in a hydronic system. If you have had an issue with a leak elsewhere in the system, its possible you have had a lot of fresh water introduced that can cause corrosion.
What problem are you having with the system to make you change this out? A few pictures with an overview of the boiler would help out
edit--- looks like its technically installed incorrectly.. your expansion tank should be hooked up to this. But honestly, I dont see the need for it. reference PDF --> »www.watts.com/pdf/1910220.pdf
Also looks like your adjustment nut is turned all the way in. Try unscrewing it till it stops and see if that makes a difference.
-j
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if it aint broke, tweak it!!
currently on FiOS (kick aZZ!) |
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jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to TGM_Milenko
What's wrong with the flow valve? There is really very little that can go wrong with these.
If you must remove it, cut the copper tubing on the inlet side then unscrew it off the threaded iron pipe. If that blue pipe dope is the same stuff I'm thinking it is, then good luck getting it apart!
Your valve appears to be installed correctly, however if you were to unscrew the "adjusting nut" on the stem as suggested, you will manually open the valve, and then that zone will always get heat anytime another zone operates. Not a good idea.
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~Help Find a Cure for Cancer~
~Proud Member of Team Discovery ~ |
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zen1
@optonline.net
| reply to TGM_Milenko
actually that valve is there to prevent self circulation of the hot water (hot water rises, cold water drops) without that, there would be constant heat in the radiators.. and it NEEDS to be screwed in all the way to prevent that, when the circulator comes on, it pushes water against the flapper inside which is spring loaded, and allows the water to flow.. what sometimes happens with these since they are cast iron is they can rust inside, and seize up or start with tapping noises.. sometimes you can take them apart and clean out all the rust and it'll be ok. and as far as they should never rust inside because it's a closed system- if you get a leak or need to service the system and drain the water, fresh water will have to be introduced, which could cause rusting, there are chemicals which can be put in that can prevent rust though, made especially for boilers. |
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TGM_Milenko
join:2004-12-17
Bloomsburg, PA
| The valve keeps sticking open and allowing the zone to gravity feed. I've tried opening and closing the gate and banging on the valve to loosen it up, but nothing has worked for more than a day or so.
We have pretty hard water here and only recently were able to install a water softener. I suspect that the hard water has gunked up the works inside the valve. It has also plugged up the air vents that allow air out of the system. I'll need to replace a few of those at the same time I do the flow control valve. |
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K Patterson
Premium,MVM
join:2006-03-12
Columbus, OH | Do you have a back flow preventer between the water source and the hydronic system? That's considerably more than a check valve, and they require periodic inspection. If you do, you can add treatment chemicals to the hydronic loop. |
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jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to TGM_Milenko
Before replacing it altogether, I would try taking it apart and clean out any crud that may be holding it open. All it takes is a small chunk of gunk to prevent the float from seating during the off-cycle.
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~Help Find a Cure for Cancer~
~Proud Member of Team Discovery ~ |
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TheMG
join:2007-09-04
Edmonton, AB
1 edit | reply to TGM_Milenko
Yikes, copper and steel together?
Two words: galvanic corrosion.
I'm no plumber, but wouldn't a dielectric union be a good idea between the copper and steel to minimize corrosion? |
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TGM_Milenko
join:2004-12-17
Bloomsburg, PA
| reply to jack b
I tried getting it open to access the valve inside and I was unable to break it open. I wrenched on it as hard as I could, but couldn't get it to budge.
I've been spraying the top threaded portion with penetrating oil and will give it another shot before I go ahead and order a new one. |
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TGM_Milenko
join:2004-12-17
Bloomsburg, PA | reply to TheMG
Could be all corroded inside for sure. I assume the pipe dope is insulating the two at least a little bit.
Problem is that the whole system is copper, but all of the valves are all made in iron.
Doesn't make much sense. |
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TGM_Milenko
join:2004-12-17
Bloomsburg, PA
| reply to jack b
This blue dope must be what you think it is, because I can't get any of the fittings to break loose. I cut the vertical copper pipe and plan on replacing it with iron pipe with a union.
I put an 18" pipe wrench on the horizontal iron pipe after the flo control valve and used the 16" or so inches of copper pipe on the bottom of the valve as a level and I can't get it to budge.
I've also been unable to break loose the vertical copper pipe from the top of the furnace. I put my biggest wrench on it and it won't move. I had to have help to hold the furnace down because I was moving it and it still won't break free.
Anyone have any ideas of how to break loose these fittings with the blue dope? The whole system is put together with this stuff and if I can't figure something out I'll have lots of stuff to replace in order to fix this.
-Jeremy |
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AnonEMouse
@rr.com | reply to TGM_Milenko
Try heating it up with a torch and then using a large pipe wrench on it.
That blue stuff looks like something pretty common called Leak Lock. |
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John97
Over The Hills And Far Away
Premium
join:2000-11-14
Southampton, PA
| reply to TGM_Milenko
My suggestion is to cut the copper pipe so you can unscrew the valve from the iron pipe. Then use a Sharkbite fitting to put it back together.
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So put me on a highway, and show me a sign.
And take it to the limit one more time... |
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