PToN
join:2001-10-04
Houston, TX
| SLA and downtimes
Hello,
Yesterday, my area suffered from an outage that started at 10:30AM and ended at 8PM. It was due to a fiber optics cable getting cut at 2 different points.
SLA terms for ATT MIS Time to Restore and MIS Service Availability, only say that they will credit the account 1/30th of the total monthly charges.
Now that is nothing compared to what we lost, are all SLAs like that..? |
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zong
join:2005-07-21
Scarborough, ON | yeah, Bell Nexxia (Canada) does the same thing. We were out for the better part of a day and got no credit b/c we never hit the 24h mark. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC | reply to PToN
Yep. You'll never get more credit than the cost of the service for that day. If you're going to lose a significant amount of money if you go down, then you should plan for that. |
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DC DSL
Stays crunchy even in milk
Premium
join:2000-07-30
Washington, DC
 ·Covad Communications
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to PToN
It is possible to negotiate more favorable terms if you are an entity that either has an official designation or function, or is a big enough revenue source for them. Otherwise, you get chump change for outages less than 72 hours.
Like Matt said, you need to factor in some contingencies. Construct a number of scenarios for outages for few minutes, a few hours, a day, a few days, and a few weeks (as might be the case if a Katrina-class storm ever hit the area). Consider the implications and costs and come up with strategies for coping, like backup wireless or out-of-area facilities for warm or hot failover (depending on how critical your needs are).
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There is no giant fur-bearing trout. |
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drew
Reformation
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
clubs:
 ·wavebroadband
| Yep.
SLAs are almost worthless in my estimation. Great, you get some cash back, but it's a minuscule amount and doesn't compare to the business impact.
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Come play Mafia! | My Picture Blog |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by drew  :Yep. SLAs are almost worthless in my estimation. Great, you get some cash back, but it's a minuscule amount and doesn't compare to the business impact. The only real upside of an SLA is it can get you out of a contract if the service degrades and they do generally TRY to get you back up within the timeframe specified. |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
 ·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| reply to drew
said by drew :Yep. SLAs are almost worthless in my estimation. Great, you get some cash back, but it's a minuscule amount and doesn't compare to the business impact. This is only true if you don't negotiate up front.
We negotiated with AT&T when we got on their SONET ring. In essence, its a fiber ring where we have two points of entry into our facility. If one line gets cut, the fiber still works and our facility doesn't go down. The SLA we got was so good that if we had a single downtime event in 3 years, the SONET would pay for itself. After having years of downtime and problems with crap SLAs, we went with this deal. So far, no downtime after 1 year on the SONET.
In short, negotiate this up front.
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My domain - Nightfall.net |
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drew
Reformation
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
clubs: | reply to Matt
I should've mention that it's specifically the reimbursement portion of a SLA that's worthless. |
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drew
Reformation
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
clubs: | reply to Nightfall
How much are you paying for this service? |
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boognish
Premium
join:2001-09-26
Baton Rouge, LA
clubs:
1 edit | reply to PToN
We have 3 different types of connection for this reason. We loose one or two every year due to hurricanes. Usually the copper is the first too go, followed by the microwave, and for the last resort we have satellite. It may be slow, but it keeps us operating.
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don't get 2 close 2 my fantasy |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to drew
said by drew :How much are you paying for this service? For us, its $3500 a month that covers a 1.5 meg PRI and a 3 meg managed internet service pipe to the internet. All run over the SONET. Thats the base cost. Then you have usage cost on the voice lines that is separate.
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My domain - Nightfall.net |
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drew
Reformation
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
clubs:
·wavebroadband
| Then wouldn't it stand to reason that you're a top client of theirs and as such are able to actually negotiate something like that?
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Come play Mafia! | My Picture Blog |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| said by drew :Then wouldn't it stand to reason that you're a top client of theirs and as such are able to actually negotiate something like that? That's why you multi-home with different providers and/or technologies (though, if your different technologies use the same provider, you maybe equally screwed depending on the outage cause). Then again, that's what DR sites are for.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by nixen :said by drew :Then wouldn't it stand to reason that you're a top client of theirs and as such are able to actually negotiate something like that? That's why you multi-home with different providers and/or technologies (though, if your different technologies use the same provider, you maybe equally screwed depending on the outage cause). Then again, that's what DR sites are for. Exactly. Heck, our data center even has a high-capacity microwave backup pointed to a podunk little town. That's not feasible for most businesses, but backing your main connection up with a cheapie cable connection and a per-minute SIP trunk for voice isn't very expensive.
If someone is paying $3500/month for 4.5Mbps of SONET bandwidth, you're going to have room to negotiate as they are making an absolute killing off you. It's the improved SLA that you're mainly paying for. SONET is awfully sweet from a redundancy standpoint though, which is another reason they can offer such a great SLA.  |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
1 edit | said by Matt :said by nixen :said by drew :Then wouldn't it stand to reason that you're a top client of theirs and as such are able to actually negotiate something like that? That's why you multi-home with different providers and/or technologies (though, if your different technologies use the same provider, you maybe equally screwed depending on the outage cause). Then again, that's what DR sites are for. Exactly. Heck, our data center even has a high-capacity microwave backup pointed to a podunk little town. That's not feasible for most businesses, but backing your main connection up with a cheapie cable connection and a per-minute SIP trunk for voice isn't very expensive. If someone is paying $3500/month for 4.5Mbps of SONET bandwidth, you're going to have room to negotiate as they are making an absolute killing off you. It's the improved SLA that you're mainly paying for. SONET is awfully sweet from a redundancy standpoint though, which is another reason they can offer such a great SLA. This is correct.
We are currently doing $250k-$300k a day in sales with over 60% of our orders coming in over phones. When we were with Cavalier Telephone, our old provider, we would have downtime 2-4 hours at a time where the PRI would just need maintenance. They really were "cavalier" about our service.
Enter AT&T who really did step forward to give us an SLA that we could work with. As a result, no downtime at all. If we do have a downtime incident, we are repaid nearly 1 for 1. Its a cost we can live with and a cost they can live with as well.
This is why an SLA should be negotiated.
I do agree Matt, having the SONET is awesome. I am so glad I am with a company that is not afraid to spend money on the right technology.
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My domain - Nightfall.net |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC | Cavalier? Ewwww. My brother has DSL from them in Virginia Beach for a while. That circuit was forever down and when it was up, was even slow as dirt by DSL standards. |
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techjoe
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Schererville, IN
| reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall :said by drew :Yep. SLAs are almost worthless in my estimation. Great, you get some cash back, but it's a minuscule amount and doesn't compare to the business impact. This is only true if you don't negotiate up front. We negotiated with AT&T when we got on their SONET ring. In essence, its a fiber ring where we have two points of entry into our facility. If one line gets cut, the fiber still works and our facility doesn't go down. The SLA we got was so good that if we had a single downtime event in 3 years, the SONET would pay for itself. After having years of downtime and problems with crap SLAs, we went with this deal. So far, no downtime after 1 year on the SONET. In short, negotiate this up front. Same here. We have a DS-3 on a freshly built ring and they really sweetened the deal since they failed the copper-based SLA's all the time. Life's much better (and faster, teehee) now. All of our GMIS and MPLS rides on it. The first test done was unplug one end of the fiber and watch it fail over with a ping running. Nothing dropped..No circuit outages since the upgrade either.
It was fun watching them do all of the work on the entry points and around town. It was a LOT of work and took quite a few months to go live from conception, but it's really the way to go if you truly cannot afford downtime.
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Baka wa shinanakya naoranai |
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carp
join:2002-10-30
clubs: | reply to PToN
You don't even know if it was ATT that caused the cut. Basically, if this link is that important for the business to run, then your company should have a much more resilient network. |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| reply to Matt
said by Matt :Cavalier? Ewwww. My brother has DSL from them in Virginia Beach for a while. That circuit was forever down and when it was up, was even slow as dirt by DSL standards. Yea, Cavalier was a nightmare. I am so glad we are done with them.
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My domain - Nightfall.net |
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Alakar
Facts do not cease to exist when ignored
join:2001-03-23
Milwaukee, WI
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to drew
said by drew :Then wouldn't it stand to reason that you're a top client of theirs and as such are able to actually negotiate something like that? AT&T will negotiate SLA's with any size client. You need to state up front what your SL requirements are, and they will usually tailor something to you. Of course it also depends on what SL you are willing to pay for. And $3500 a month is not a top client. That's about average for medium size business. Large clients for AT&T run into six, and in a few cases, seven figures a month. Clients of that size have account reps dedicated to their account and that's all they work on.
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"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom; it is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt the Younger |
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