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Daveid

join:2007-06-12
Milpitas, CA

3 edits
reply to crese24

Comcast announces new bandwidth throttling scheme

»www.engadget.com/2009/11/05/comc···-scheme/

"if more than 70 percent of your max bandwidth (downstream or upstream) is used for more than 15 minutes"

"expect to find yourself down-throtted for at least 15 minutes, or until your average bandwidth utilisation rate drops below 50 per cent for 15 minutes."

Thread was locked, reposting here.

Source: »downloads.comcast.net/docs/Attac···ices.pdf
Page 9

Mod Note: The "new" bandwidth "throttling scheme" isn't new. Please see this BBR article ---> »Comcast Slammed For Non-Existent Throttling Changes
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ISP: Comcast - Download: 25.6mbps - Upload: 1580 kbps


Drizew

join:2004-09-17
Los Lunas, NM

1 edit

That is old news Daveid. Look at the first post of this thread. There are posts about it dating back to January maybe earlier. Maybe they just started implementing it, but there have been discussions about it before this.

Edit: OK I just read into a PDF and they don't actually throttle your speeds. They just delay them from getting to you asap. This will have no effect on gamers unless they are also downloading a huge file while they are playing.

Read this. »downloads.comcast.net/docs/Attac···ices.pdf


Daveid

join:2007-06-12
Milpitas, CA

1 edit

Even if that is the case, it's still false advertising on Comcast's behalf.

If they advertise a 22/5 plan, and I pay for a 22/5 plan, I expect a 22/5 plan.

This .pdf basically describes that I'm only allowed to use 15.4/3.5, and 22/5 is my "powerboost" for a few minutes.

Hence, they should either start selling lower speed tiers, or stop complaining that they can't deliver the speeds the advertise.
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ISP: Comcast - Download: 25.6mbps - Upload: 1580 kbps


naturecannon

join:2005-01-23
Portland, OR
reply to Drizew

said by Drizew:

they don't actually throttle your speeds. They just delay them from getting to you asap. This will have no effect on gamers unless they are also downloading a huge file while they are playing.
LOL, whats the difference?

Delayed/ throttled, whatever you want to call it, you are not getting whats advertised.

If a service provider can't sustain full bandwidth for more than 15 minutes then they're not really giving me the rated bandwidth. They need to advertise speeds that they can give people 100% of the time.

Drizew

join:2004-09-17
Los Lunas, NM

The difference is speed vs latency. If you are so bothered by the way you are being treated then you can always change providers. Here, I will even give you a list of providers that are OBVIOUSLY better then Comcast.

Hughesnet
Qwest -- it is fiber after all :/
Verizon Wireless -- MOBILE!
Sprint --- Check out the bandwidth allowance!
and my personal favorite... Netzero

I know you won't have trouble switching. Last time I checked Comcast didn't require you to sign a service contract.


Drizew

join:2004-09-17
Los Lunas, NM
reply to Daveid

said by Daveid:

If they advertise a 22/5 plan, and I pay for a 22/5 plan, I except expect a 22/5 plan.

This .pdf basically describes that I'm only allowed to use 15.4/3.5, and 22/5 is my "powerboost" for a few minutes.
The .pdf makes no mention of Powerboost. I guess you have trouble understanding complicated text like "...during those times when the network is already being overwhelmed." [/sarcasm]

Nobody forces you to use their products. However, if you choose to use them, then you must play by their rules. Grin and bear it. I know the rest of us are.

Daveid

join:2007-06-12
Milpitas, CA

1 edit

If you noticed, I put quotations around powerboost.

I was trying to emphasize the relation between their throttling plan and their feature, powerboost.

Powerboost as described by Comcast:
"PowerBoost is a patented-pending Comcast network technology that enables you to experience faster connection speeds while you are downloading and uploading large files to the Internet."

Thus, I was trying to make a connection that an advertised speed like 22/5 is actually a "power boost" as they only allow me to normally use 15.4/3.5.
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ISP: Comcast - Download: 25.6mbps - Upload: 1580 kbps


Drizew

join:2004-09-17
Los Lunas, NM

1 edit

How can you say that 22/5 is the advertised "powerboost" speed? Especially when you are provisioned @ 24.2/5.5. There have been people reporting speeds of up to 90Mb/s when "powerboost" is activated.

By the way, there is absolutely no relation between throttling and powerboost.

Edit: Mistakes.

Expand your moderator at work

Drizew

join:2004-09-17
Los Lunas, NM

Re: Comcast announces new bandwidth throttling scheme

I have had Comcast for over 7 years (since they were first available). I am not about to run. I am sitting with open arms enjoying the speed increases.

I agree that they shouldn't try to do more then they are capable of, but thats business.

Know any good realtors that could get me a room @ a data center? I would really enjoy a 99.99% uptime Gbit connection.


Daveid

join:2007-06-12
Milpitas, CA
reply to Drizew

I could understand "little" relation between throttling and powerboost.. but "absolutely no"?

Let me break it down nice and easy for ya

Why do you think powerboost even exists? A friendly "thank you" to customers? That's not how businesses work bud.

It's all apart of the huge marketing gimmick. It's so they can advertise 30/4 to customers and make it seem like Comcast is so "fast".

When in reality, You only get that 30/4 for a few moments.. until your speeds get "throttled" (See?) down to 22/5.

So, don't say there's "absolutely no" relation between Power boost and throttling.
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ISP: Comcast - Download: 25.6mbps - Upload: 1580 kbps


Drizew

join:2004-09-17
Los Lunas, NM

2 edits

I never said Powerboost was a "thank you" to customers. They just want you to download faster so you can clear space for others on the network to have faster speeds. It's a clever way for them to squeeze a little more out of their network, so they can increase the subscriber base with minimal cost/effort.

Edit: I guess I had a little more to add... Quick question first... What happens if you use 140% of your rated speeds? throttled in 7 minutes.. lol

"When in reality, You only get that 30/4 for a few moments.. until your speeds get "throttled" (See?) down to 22/5."

How can you say you are being throttled when you are getting 100% of what you are paying for? You subscribe to Ultra, which is 22/5. I see Powerboost as a bonus for both parties.


Daveid

join:2007-06-12
Milpitas, CA

1 edit

Dictionary: throt·tle
tr.v., -tled, -tling, -tles.
1. a. To regulate the flow of
b. To regulate the speed of

Dictionary: reg·u·late
tr.v., -lat·ed, -lat·ing, -lates.
1. To control or direct
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ISP: Comcast - Download: 25.6mbps - Upload: 1580 kbps


Drizew

join:2004-09-17
Los Lunas, NM

Well at least we both agree that Comcast throttles the speed for Powerboost. They increase the flow of.....


Daveid

join:2007-06-12
Milpitas, CA

said by Drizew:

Well at least we both agree that Comcast throttles the speed for Powerboost. They increase the flow of.....
I'm guessing you're taking back your previous statement of "By the way, there is absolutely no relation between throttling and powerboost." then?
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ISP: Comcast - Download: 25.6mbps - Upload: 1580 kbps

Drizew

join:2004-09-17
Los Lunas, NM

2 edits

I guess I just didn't construct that sentence as well as I should have. It should have read something like this. "By the way, there is absolutely no relation between Comcast lowering your speeds by throttling and powerboost."

Excuse me, I am trying to multi task. Things slip by me from time to time.

Edit: I would like somebody from Comcast to chime in and maybe give us a better idea of how this all works. The analogy in the pdf was decent, but I would prefer to see some raw data. One tenth of a second is hardly a delay in delivery, but I doubt the system works as intended 100% of the time.



JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA

1 edit

1 recommendation

This is how Comcast's congestion management works

said by Drizew:

Edit: I would like somebody from Comcast to chime in and maybe give us a better idea of how this all works. The analogy in the pdf was decent, but I would prefer to see some raw data. One tenth of a second is hardly a delay in delivery, but I doubt the system works as intended 100% of the time.
The pdf explains the system just fine.
When you are identified as a user that is contributing to congestion on a node (and only if you fall into the "if more than 70 percent of your max bandwidth (downstream or upstream) is used for more than 15 minutes" then your packets will be marked as lower priority for the next 15 minutes. There is no throttling.

Here is a simple metaphor:

You and 10 other people have drain pipes. All 10 drain pipes feed into a single sewer line.

Everyone's pipe can drain 10 gallons per second
The sewer can drain 70 gallons per second.

If all 10 users are draining at 7 gps or less, no problems.

If all 10 users are draining at 7gps, and then you start draining at 8pgs, there is now an extra gallon per second that cannot be drained. water backs up. At first, it backs up equally across all 10 of you, so you get 7.9gps, and everyone else gets 6.9gps. After 15 minutes, your water is made to wait so everyone else's water goes first. You get 7gps, and everyone else does too. If another user drops down to 6gps, you'll get 8gps - your water soaks up EXCESS capacity, but no longer GRABS capacity from other users.

It's not a perfect analogy, but hopefully it helps clarify things.

To recap, you can use 100% of your pipe all day and night (for a few days, anyway, then you'll hit the cap - a whole different ball of wax) as long as the nodes you pass through are not saturated. If they become saturated your packets go to the 'bulk' category - you soak up all the excess capacity of the node, but if someone else needs it, your packets wait.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Drizew

join:2004-09-17
Los Lunas, NM

Re: Comcast announces new bandwidth throttling scheme

I understand everything they said in the pdf. I was looking for MORE information. I wanted information/data they have collected since this system has been implemented, not theory or estimates. It would be nice to know how long the systems stay overcrowded once the throttling system is activated. How well has it addressed the problem in the top 5 (bottom 5 technically) overcrowded markets? That is the kind of information I was looking to hear from Comcast. I understand the chances of them releasing any real information is small, but it is worth the effort to ask.



funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

1 edit

said by Drizew:It would be nice to know how long the systems stay overcrowded once the throttling system is activated. How well has it addressed the problem in the top 5 (bottom 5 technically) overcrowded markets? That is the kind of information I was looking to hear from Comcast. I understand the chances of them releasing any real information is small, but it is worth the effort to ask.
Comcast is currently in a period of technical Glasnost (which we love), and they really do like their latest solution for network management. Ask and they very well may provide some kind of answer.

Fixed uneven quote tags. ~sorto'

--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Test your Broadband connection today! -- »measurementlab.net/


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA

1 recommendation

reply to Drizew

said by Drizew:

It would be nice to know how long the systems stay overcrowded once the throttling system is activated. How well has it addressed the problem in the top 5 (bottom 5 technically) overcrowded markets?
The whole point of the method they implemented was that the system now behaves rationally and fairly, so the only people who would notice it at all would be those who were running full out, for long periods of time, and who happen to be on nodes where there were periods of congestion when they were running full out.

In the time I've been monitoring this forum I have seen may people posting complaining about throttling who were in fact experiencing connection issues, or problems upstream. I've yet to see one instance where anyone actually saw deprioritisation of their packets (which is the only "throttling" you'll ever see.)

Based on the algorithm and the general overcapacity of the comcast infrastructure, I'd bet that fewer then 1 in 100 would ever see it.
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My place : »www.schettino.us