Looking to adopt a new *nix in All Things Unix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23302570 en Wed, 10 Feb 2010 03:05:58 EDT Wed, 10 Feb 2010 03:05:58 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23319997 El Quintron : Although I just read up on Theo a second ago, I can say this about his attitude (my way or the highway) projects with a coherent direction tend to outlive those who are a too loose.

I'm not saying the Shuttleworths or the Volkerdings of the world are right but the results speak for themselves.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23319997 Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:54:39 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23318215 Bink : No, even then it was Theo’s way or the highway.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23318215 Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:46:05 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23318043 reub2000 :
said by Bink See Profile :

There is no politics—it’s Theo’s way or the highway.
Except when dealing with DARPA
--
My pbase gallery]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23318043 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:42:58 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23317959 Bink : There is no politics—it’s Theo’s way or the highway.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23317959 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:21:41 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23317926 reub2000 :
said by Bink See Profile :

Linux is also highly political—with various organizations and commercial entities vying to get their code included in the system—the BSDs have far less of this
You forgeting Theo De Raadt. Now we're talking about actual politics.

said by No_Strings See Profile :

Aversion therapy - They make you run Windows for a week.
No, they give you a machine with a blank hard drive, a windows cd, and cd key. Then they force you to install it, install all of the patches, hunt for every driver for every chip in the machine, and then install all the applications needed for basic computing tasks. All the while, the music that keeps you sane had the misfourtune of residing on a disk formatted with ext3. If that doesn't work, you'll have to come back in 6 months, and figure out which software on the machine is outdated.
--
My pbase gallery]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23317926 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:11:05 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23317715 nixen :
said by Selenia See Profile :

Sorry I did not include sarcasm tags about commercial software having to be better, because I was just being sarcastic. Unfortunately, that is how too many employers view things. I am fortunate enough to finally land with one a bit more open-minded, as technology goes. FOSS is the best development in the world because you have unlimited potential contributors who work on their area of expertise. They don't burn out because they work on what they want to when they want. The best contribution is then accepted by the maintainer. It's not a small team coming up with and then another small team implementing the ideas. It's a global effort, literally. More people to spot bugs too.
Knock it all you want. There's considerable investment by businesses in non-open technologies. This can include things like training on OSes and applications.

For example: moving from Oracle on Solaris (et. al.) to Linux is expensive/difficult enough. Taking your data and porting it to a new database is orders of magnitude more expensive. It's easier/less expensive to change the OS but leave the application. However, if they decide to NOT go with a RedHat or a SuSE, they're completely on their own: Oracle (et. al.) won't help or support them.

OSS for the sake of OSS is a bogus argument. There has to be a business case for doing *anything*.
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23317715 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:27:48 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23317621 Selenia :
said by nixen See Profile :

said by Selenia See Profile :

said by nixen See Profile :

Tell that to the employer that wants an RHCT or RHCE.
LOL commercial software has gotta be better than some free software, doesn't it? jk LOL. That just seems the train of thought for most these employers. He might not even be aware that the core of his Red Hat is free software. Maybe zing him with that one. hahaha!
Unfortunately, a lot of commercial software for Linux systems is either only certified/supported on RedHat (and CentOS) and/or SuSE (and the corresponding OpenSuSE release) or only runs on those platforms (without "messaging" them). For most businesses, it's the criticality of the applications that drives the OS choice. Certification is just an adjunct to that (much like a large percentage of Solaris and Microsoft shops want corresponding certifications).

That said, other than considerations for employment, use whichever OS accomplishes your needs in the way you'd like it to. For me, that used to be Slackware; now, it's CentOS and/or Fedora because most of my paid work is RedHat (and switching back and forth is kind of annoying).
Sorry I did not include sarcasm tags about commercial software having to be better, because I was just being sarcastic. Unfortunately, that is how too many employers view things. I am fortunate enough to finally land with one a bit more open-minded, as technology goes. FOSS is the best development in the world because you have unlimited potential contributors who work on their area of expertise. They don't burn out because they work on what they want to when they want. The best contribution is then accepted by the maintainer. It's not a small team coming up with and then another small team implementing the ideas. It's a global effort, literally. More people to spot bugs too.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23317621 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:09:03 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23316476 El Quintron :
said by Bink See Profile :

"Linux is for those who hate Windows; BSD is for those who love UNIX."
I fall into the former camp... but I have to say the bloody releases pretty much keep me happy with a few exceptions, and I don't really know if these can ever be fixed in cutting edge releases.

But seeing as most of my data is stored on external devices, a broken system means very little to me data wise.

I could see it being a huge pain if I had to use these machines to support clients, but seeing as I'm not employed in an IT field, my needs are not so "stable"
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23316476 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:36:34 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23315847 Bink : You need to also remember the BSDs are designed with the entire system in mind—whereas Linux is just a kernel and the distributions add on the user land. Linux is also highly political—with various organizations and commercial entities vying to get their code included in the system—the BSDs have far less of this.

Someone else probably said it best:

"Linux is for those who hate Windows; BSD is for those who love UNIX."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23315847 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:36:15 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23314961 No_Strings : Aversion therapy - They make you run Windows for a week.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23314961 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:52:53 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23314940 BBBanditRuR : Totally agree with stable being a good thing. Actually, I get a little run down with six month release cycles. I'm glad Ubuntu uses their LTS. I still get that feeling like I'm behind the times if I don't upgrade though. Is there therapy for that? :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23314940 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:47:28 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23314900 Cabal :
said by BBBanditRuR See Profile :

FreeBSD and the other BSD's are also awesome in their own right, but they aren't Linux, and have a much slower release cycle. For the fastest release cycles, Ubuntu and Fedora are fast.
OpenBSD uses a 6-month release cycle and has hit their dates 25 times in a row, exactly on the date promised, and with no critical bugs. I wouldn't use it as my desktop, but I doubt you'll find a Linux distribution with that record anytime soon.
--
Obamanomics: Trickle-up poverty.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23314900 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:41:19 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23314833 sremick :
said by BBBanditRuR See Profile :

FreeBSD and the other BSD's are also awesome in their own right, but they aren't Linux, and have a much slower release cycle. For the fastest release cycles, Ubuntu and Fedora are fast.
Some people view slower, more-careful and more-developed releases to be a good thing, not a bad thing. ;) Not everyone wants to risk breaking their system with a x.0 release every few months. ;)

I much-prefer the "do it right" philosophy of FreeBSD to the "do it first" philosophy of Linux. I have no problem with the frequency of releases. If there's a "gotta have it now" feature not available in the current release, I might occasionally hop on -STABLE but for the most part -RELEASE is perfectly fine.
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»www.ninstation.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23314833 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:26:44 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23314297 BBBanditRuR : Cool, thanks. This will be nice (for me at least), I didn't have to push too hard to break Karmic in beta form, so added stability from that branch will be nice for testing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23314297 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:50:41 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23314293 nixen :
said by Selenia See Profile :

said by nixen See Profile :

Tell that to the employer that wants an RHCT or RHCE.
LOL commercial software has gotta be better than some free software, doesn't it? jk LOL. That just seems the train of thought for most these employers. He might not even be aware that the core of his Red Hat is free software. Maybe zing him with that one. hahaha!
Unfortunately, a lot of commercial software for Linux systems is either only certified/supported on RedHat (and CentOS) and/or SuSE (and the corresponding OpenSuSE release) or only runs on those platforms (without "messaging" them). For most businesses, it's the criticality of the applications that drives the OS choice. Certification is just an adjunct to that (much like a large percentage of Solaris and Microsoft shops want corresponding certifications).

That said, other than considerations for employment, use whichever OS accomplishes your needs in the way you'd like it to. For me, that used to be Slackware; now, it's CentOS and/or Fedora because most of my paid work is RedHat (and switching back and forth is kind of annoying).
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23314293 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:50:23 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23314264 Selenia : Betas are now syncing with Debian testing, which is actually a more stable branch than before, which was Debian sid. Rest is on the regular 6-month release-and-fix schedule.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23314264 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:45:13 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23314184 BBBanditRuR : EDIT: Upon reading your other posts, if you need the compiling/advanced stuff: GENTOO/SLACKWARE, or else you'll be wasting time doing the same thing in the other distros. Those two will save you some time getting nitty gritty, which you can do with the others, but like another poster said, without the hand-holding.

Hi there, going to chime in with my two (long) cents:

IMHO, Linux is Linux (if you're technical about it, since the kernel is just the kernel, even if it's customized, the rest is userland and GNU and open source tools and packages, hence the GNU/Linux). That's where most people flex on the specific power of each distro.

Red Hat and others keep their own fork of the kernel going, so yeah, you are going to get off of the main path and HAVE to learn a specific distro by itself to keep up, if that's the one you choose. I like to not limit myself necessarily to that thinking of being able to use only one version. You can have success with lots of different ones. Try the major ones, Gentoo, Red Hat Based (CentOS, Fedora), Debian based (Debian, Ubuntu (9.10 is really cool) and Slackware (remember, you can download the images and try em out in a virtualized environment on that wired box). Don't discount other OS'es too, OpenSolaris is a really neat project with some amazing tools of it's own (ZFS comes to mind). FreeBSD and the other BSD's are also awesome in their own right, but they aren't Linux, and have a much slower release cycle. For the fastest release cycles, Ubuntu and Fedora are fast. I've heard the Ubuntu team is syncing with Debian now, not sure on which branch, maybe somebody can advise on this?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23314184 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:31:46 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23314065 rawwhide :
said by Selenia See Profile :

Disagree. Slackware is a nice purist distro, but I see no evidence that it teaches Linux any better. You can even learn on Ubuntu. Let's see, I learned on a Debian machine I setup myself. Almost all skills for newer Debian are portable to cli in Ubuntu(Debian based). Yet, when I go over the RHL, Gentoo, or Fedora there is no change in how to compile source code or setup a desktop environment you compiled. Different package managers, yes. Maybe a couple renamed local directories. When you compile source code for all your apps, then you're learning Linux.

If you're really looking for a distro to force you to learn, then get Gentoo. It's no different than any other Linux. However, it makes you set it up from scratch and forces you to use cli alot. Yet, its initial packages are thoroughly modern. Just don't make it your main system for awhile(you might find yourself very sorry).
I think I stated this in not so many words about 5 posts up!! ;)
--
To talk much and arrive nowhere is the same as climbing a tree to catch a fish.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23314065 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:10:02 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23313934 Selenia :
said by nixen See Profile :

Tell that to the employer that wants an RHCT or RHCE.
LOL commercial software has gotta be better than some free software, doesn't it? jk LOL. That just seems the train of thought for most these employers. He might not even be aware that the core of his Red Hat is free software. Maybe zing him with that one. hahaha!
said by rawwhide See Profile :

My vote is Slackware. If you want to really learn then Slackware is by far the best. Like someone else quoted...

said by disturbed1 See Profile :

There's an old saying -
If you learn Red Hat, you learn Red Hat. If you learn SuSE, you learn SuSE. But if you learn Slackware, you learn Linux
Disagree. Slackware is a nice purist distro, but I see no evidence that it teaches Linux any better. You can even learn on Ubuntu. Let's see, I learned on a Debian machine I setup myself. Almost all skills for newer Debian are portable to cli in Ubuntu(Debian based). Yet, when I go over the RHL, Gentoo, or Fedora there is no change in how to compile source code or setup a desktop environment you compiled. Different package managers, yes. Maybe a couple renamed local directories. When you compile source code for all your apps, then you're learning Linux.

If you're really looking for a distro to force you to learn, then get Gentoo. It's no different than any other Linux. However, it makes you set it up from scratch and forces you to use cli alot. Yet, its initial packages are thoroughly modern. Just don't make it your main system for awhile(you might find yourself very sorry).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23313934 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 10:44:55 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23311576 nixen :
said by rawwhide See Profile :

said by nixen See Profile :

said by disturbed1 See Profile :

There's an old saying -
If you learn Red Hat, you learn Red Hat. If you learn SuSE, you learn SuSE.
Depending on what your goals are, you'd likely want to amend that, "if you learn RedHat or SuSE, it might get you a job." ;)

Mostly RedHat in the US and SuSE in Europe.
Once you learn Linux then the actual distribution doesn't matter. All distros are Linux. ;)
Tell that to the employer that wants an RHCT or RHCE.
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23311576 Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:26:34 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23311052 No_Strings : That's a fine way to evaluate the options.

I'll agree that Patrick values stability over updates, but as I mentioned earlier, you can tap into the current tree for bleeding edge or compile your own if you need something newer than what's released for your version. I do that all the time for a couple of apps.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23311052 Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:17:24 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23311018 El Quintron : I do have a soft-spot for Slackware as a friend of mine has been archiving Subgenius recordings on their behalf for years and keeps in touch with Patrick Volkerding.

However he values stability and I value more updates.

So here's my plan, and yous may interject, I'm going to dual boot my netbook with Moblin and Arch, and I'll run most other candidates as virtuals on this machine, as it has the HP to deal with Virtualization. You thoughts?
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23311018 Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:10:14 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23310246 rawwhide :
said by nixen See Profile :

said by disturbed1 See Profile :

There's an old saying -
If you learn Red Hat, you learn Red Hat. If you learn SuSE, you learn SuSE.
Depending on what your goals are, you'd likely want to amend that, "if you learn RedHat or SuSE, it might get you a job." ;)

Mostly RedHat in the US and SuSE in Europe.
Once you learn Linux then the actual distribution doesn't matter. All distros are Linux. ;)
--
To talk much and arrive nowhere is the same as climbing a tree to catch a fish.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23310246 Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:47:17 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23309925 nixen :
said by disturbed1 See Profile :

There's an old saying -
If you learn Red Hat, you learn Red Hat. If you learn SuSE, you learn SuSE.
Depending on what your goals are, you'd likely want to amend that, "if you learn RedHat or SuSE, it might get you a job." ;)

Mostly RedHat in the US and SuSE in Europe.
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23309925 Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:12:37 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23309694 El Quintron : Hence my desire to learn a more complex Linux. Seeing as I've decided which machine I'm going to run it on, Slackware becomes a possibility again.

I'll definitely post here once I get the new one on board.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23309694 Sun, 08 Nov 2009 11:08:21 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23309607 rawwhide : My vote is Slackware. If you want to really learn then Slackware is by far the best. Like someone else quoted...

said by disturbed1 See Profile :

There's an old saying -
If you learn Red Hat, you learn Red Hat. If you learn SuSE, you learn SuSE. But if you learn Slackware, you learn Linux

--
To talk much and arrive nowhere is the same as climbing a tree to catch a fish.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23309607 Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:41:25 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23309247 El Quintron : Hmm Karmic has been fairly positive on my first gen AA1, I remember having a few heating issues with 8.04 but that was the only real one.

The netbook is probably the one that's gonna be the first hit when I start experimenting for two reasons,

1) doesn't manage the music collection so the audio is secondary.
2) Wifi always seems to be an issue so I can get nail that one right out of the box.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23309247 Sun, 08 Nov 2009 08:07:20 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23309010 benyto : My vote would be for Slackware. The lack of hand holding done by the distribution is a positive in my opinion. Of course I'm biased; I've been using Slackware for 15 years or so.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23309010 Sun, 08 Nov 2009 03:05:35 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23308824 nixen : Freaking hate the evil combo of SELinux and iptables when trying to get test servers to work together on new client/server or other host-to-host software. It's one thing once you've sorted out all the ports and SELinux exceptions you need. But the first time you're building with new/unfamiliar software... Ugly. And have yet to see a vendor include the necessary iptables and/or SELinux voodoo necessary to get their shit to work. :P
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23308824 Sun, 08 Nov 2009 01:22:26 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23308524 Radioman991 : To the OP....

I have been an Ubuntu guy for over 2 years. Running it on my server, and 5 other PCs...EXCEPT, the netbook I am posting with...is using OpenSUSE. Why? I got a little tee'd off at Karmic, because it made my netbook almost unusable, where Jaunty worked OK after tweaks.

Thank GOD I didn't try KK on the wife's Acer Aspire One as well.

I was disappointed in KK, as I has HOPEFUL it would run BETTER on the AAO.

OpenSUSE is working fine. All I need to figure out is getting 1366 x 768 screen resolution, and then I am golden.

YMMV]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23308524 Sat, 07 Nov 2009 23:21:31 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23306891 Selenia : You used to have to edit it by hand. It was one of the more challenging things I had to learn early on. In the end, it was rewarding. Firestarter does most of what people need in a very easy GUI.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23306891 Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:40:01 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23306850 rexbinary :
said by nixen See Profile :

RedHat/Fedora/CentOS are all really good if you want to fight with system security. Leave SELinux and/or iptables on, It's LOADS of fun. :p
I have SELinux enabled on my Fedora 11 desktop and netbook, and on my CentOS server and have no issues with it at all. It's very easy to administer on Fedora 11. If you do run into an odd violation, the troubleshooting tool pops up and gives you the exact command to type to fix it. It will also tell you the pros and cons of the fix security wise.

CentOS's trobleshooting tool is not as modern as Fedora's, but on Fedora or CentOS if you stick with software from the repos it is all labeled correctly anyway. Most .conf files list the SELinux commands that need to be issued for that application to run correctly in the comments.

iptables is very easy to administer if you use system-config-security. I've never attempted to edit it by hand but I have heard it can be challenging.
--
Verizon FiOS subscriber since 2005 | Mac owner since 1990 | Fedora user since 2006 | CentOS user since 2007 | "Anyone who is unwilling to learn is entitled to absolutely nothing." - graysonf | EDIT: I seldom post without an edit.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23306850 Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:28:06 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23306299 Selenia :
said by Bink See Profile :

iptables? That thing is madness. Get outside your Linux walls and try OpenBSD’s pf (packet filter).
I like iptables structure that makes almost any forwarding or blocking config possible. Even by headers. As I said, if the config is madness for anybody, they can download a GUI like firestarter. That provides enough functionality for the general masses that need a good firewall. I have used a Windows version of BSD's ipfw and very much liked it too. I can do a bit more with iptables because I've used it for years. But that firewall was the best I've ever used for a Windows box. I actually trusted it to block what it was told to :P(you know how some commercial Windows firewalls are).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23306299 Sat, 07 Nov 2009 12:51:14 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23305962 nixen :
said by Bink See Profile :

iptables? That thing is madness. Get outside your Linux walls and try OpenBSD’s pf (packet filter).
Been using ipf for over a decade, now. Feels like it makes more sense.
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23305962 Sat, 07 Nov 2009 11:20:57 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23305728 Bink : iptables? That thing is madness. Get outside your Linux walls and try OpenBSD’s pf (packet filter).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23305728 Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:16:06 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23305645 adsldude :
said by Selenia See Profile :

iptables is the best friggin firewall there is-and free. I laugh at that bloatware Windows users install. There are GUIs that can configure it pretty well, but only the command line can tap the full functionality it has.
How about netfilter? Let the stateless and state-full firewall wars begin. So many choices! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23305645 Sat, 07 Nov 2009 09:49:48 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23305602 Selenia : iptables is the best friggin firewall there is-and free. I laugh at that bloatware Windows users install. There are GUIs that can configure it pretty well, but only the command line can tap the full functionality it has.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23305602 Sat, 07 Nov 2009 09:35:49 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23305347 cork1958 : If you want small, light and has EVERYTHING including flash player, win32 codecs, rar unzipping, etc, all in one, WITHOUT having to search for all that garbage, try Blag, »www.blagblagblag.org/ or Zenwalk, »www.zenwalk.org/.

My 2 favorites.
--
The Firefox alternative.
»www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23305347 Sat, 07 Nov 2009 06:27:09 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23305228 nixen :
said by munky99999 See Profile :


esxi is a really good idea actually. If you have the hardware to run it anyway.
If you're worried about hardware, Xen can be a much better solution. Plus, most of the enterprise features are available in the free version.
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23305228 Sat, 07 Nov 2009 03:41:56 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23305227 nixen : RedHat/Fedora/CentOS are all really good if you want to fight with system security. Leave SELinux and/or iptables on, It's LOADS of fun. :p
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23305227 Sat, 07 Nov 2009 03:40:30 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23305128 reub2000 :
quote:
So how long from start to finish with Gentoo? I'm used to going from zero to complete with Ubuntu in under 45 mins, I'm aware this isn't possible with Gentoo but how long does it take?
Really depends on the hardware. I haven't done a full install in a while, but I remember that it took a couple of hours (something around 5 or 6, I forget) on a Athlon 64 3700. I'm sure it's much quicker on the new machines. If you do the install from a live cd, you can still use your computer while installing gentoo. (just expect it to be a bit slower because the compiler will be eating up all of your CPU cycles.) Or just install it from within Ubuntu.

The good thing about gentoo is that docs will walk you through the process of installation. Step by step, so you shouldn't get lost.

In the end, you'll have a much easier time than many of the users here. For example, recent releases of X.org can automatically detect the correct settings on most setups, eliminating the need to even create a config file.
--
My pbase gallery]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23305128 Sat, 07 Nov 2009 02:08:02 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304995 El Quintron :
said by munky99999 See Profile :


Which you can do with ubuntu. You just need to learn to move away from the package management system. OR go and do use that commandline.

You're missing the point. I'm moving away from Ubuntu. I was/am looking for options outside of Ubuntu specifically.

BSD is an option but I really haven't done any research on it. So its looking like Arch is going to be the next one I test.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304995 Sat, 07 Nov 2009 00:48:50 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304874 Selenia : Yes, Gentoo as well. I didn't suggest it because of how he described his skill level. Everyone has to try it once at least, but they better be ready LOL.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304874 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 23:59:39 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304782 munky99999 :
said by El Quintron See Profile :

said by Bink See Profile :

How about stepping outside of the box and using BSD? If you have an open mind, I highly recommend OpenBSD.
To be honest I've never considered it, it would certainly be a challenge I'd be up for in the new year.
Freebsd is more popular then openbsd.

Why? Customization is very popular in freebsd. Building your own custom kernel for example is something that's common in freebsd and not so much in openbsd. Furthermore it's easier to get a hold of pretty much any software for freebsd. Which wont work so well in openbsd.

The idea being between the 2... freebsd wants you to try whatever you feel like. Assuming you arent doing it on some main internet exposed webserver or something. While openbsd is kind of under the impression your box is going to be the next google.com webserver with millions of hits and day and many security pen tests randomly. With that... the openbsd fellas think there's absolutely no reason you should be touching anything but their special prestine applications/kernels. Doing so can only lead to being less secure and more buggy. Which is bad.

Im sure someone will come correct me about my thoughts of bsd. As frankly they might be highly outdated and/or wrong.

That said... BSD is nice for very unusual computer setups. Like ancient hardware cpu architectures or beowulf clustering.

Dragonfly BSD which is out of freebsd is an extremely popular one to use for those ultra cheap.. "I bought 500$ worth of 50cent pentium 3 1ghz cpus. Lets cluster them together" kind of deals heh.

So here's a good list of OS you might as well try at some point.

Ubuntu you should run!
Fedora/Suse/RedHat
Debian
Gentoo/Slackware/Arch
Backtrack for fun!
Openbsd/Freebsd
Plan 9

That pretty much rounds out the different schools of thought i think. Plan 9 I toss in there for the lulz.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304782 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 23:22:28 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304662 munky99999 :
quote:
What I need to learn though is advanced compiling, CLI, and how to dig around a computer with a command line.

Which you can do with ubuntu. You just need to learn to move away from the package management system. OR go and do use that commandline.

The issue is that the easy method is staring you in the face for ubuntu. With CLI and such still there to use.

Gentoo-slack on the otherhand kinda forces you to use those and thusly no option of the easy method. Though admittedly gentoo does have emerge.

When you get into an RPM hell like I have several times. You really really warm up to ubuntu's development cycles.

Though I went and looked today @ gentoo. Seems they've recovered from their schism as of late. I think im mistaken about this though.

debian has a bad track record with security tbh. LOTS of DOS issues and bad random # generating.

esxi is a really good idea actually. If you have the hardware to run it anyway.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304662 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:48:57 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304308 El Quintron :
said by Bink See Profile :

How about stepping outside of the box and using BSD? If you have an open mind, I highly recommend OpenBSD.
To be honest I've never considered it, it would certainly be a challenge I'd be up for in the new year.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304308 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 21:00:49 EDT Re: Why limit yourself to One *nix? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304271 nixen :
said by mike_f See Profile :

If you want to learn AND have a usable, reliable and maintainable system at all times, use Debian/XFCE4 as a host and try out all of these other *nixes under Virtualbox.
Or run ESXi or Xen and save yourself some overhead.
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304271 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 20:50:36 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304245 adsldude :
said by No_Strings See Profile :

It's not easy to start with Slack if you have never seen a *nix system.
That's the same thing you said to me back in 2005. It didn't mean much then but I certainly understand it today. Thank you and +1 for Slackware as a path to Linux enlightenment.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304245 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 20:45:19 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304211 El Quintron : I started reading it a couple of weeks ago at work during calls, I will eventually get on to it when I get more time, I think I'm going to do Arch or one of the Slackware children.

I think that'll make me more command line oriented.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304211 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 20:38:34 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304150 Bink : How about stepping outside of the box and using BSD? If you have an open mind, I highly recommend OpenBSD. You’ll find it more secure than most Linux distributions, there’s a new release every six months and, unlike Linux, everything has a man page and is well organized.

I used to use Debian, but once I started using OpenBSD, I never looked back.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304150 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 20:20:12 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304110 JTC :
said by El Quintron See Profile :

What I need to learn though is advanced compiling, CLI, and how to dig around a computer with a command line.
Linux From Scratch
--
All hardware sucks, all software sucks, some just suck more than others]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304110 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 20:10:46 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304109 El Quintron : People keep telling me that. I'm going to have to give Debian another roll, once I'm done messing with Arch or a Slackware child...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304109 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 20:10:44 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304032 Selenia : You can go as deep as you want with Ubuntu and mod it as you wish. However, I would recommend an ancestor of Ubuntu known as none other than Debian. That has always been my fav distro. I may be biased since it was my first Linux project(creating a Debian server).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23304032 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:51:08 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303995 El Quintron : Good to know, thank you for bringing these up...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303995 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:44:31 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303974 El Quintron : Hello,

I've seen backtrack and I will certainly download a USB of it and give it a go it sounds like a lot of fun,

About the rest, I think you've misread my intent. There ain't nothing I can't do on Ubuntu, I can get it from zero to production in under 30 mins.

What I need to learn though is advanced compiling, CLI, and how to dig around a computer with a command line.

Which is why a tougher distro is called for.

By the way thank you for bringing up backtrack again, I'm downloading it right now.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303974 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:40:00 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303961 laprjns :
said by El Quintron See Profile :

Speaking of Slackware has anyone tried Zenwalk? I hear it's Slackware based.
Yes, I had been using it for the last 4 years. It is slackware based, comes out with a new release about twice a year. If you want a rolling release feel, then keep updated to the snapshot repos where the new packages are tested before being rolled into a release.
Another Slackware base distro is Salix, »www.salixos.org/wiki/index.php/Home. It's new, but it's being develope by some experienced ex-Zenwalk developers. It completely backward compatible with Salix 13.0. Being new, the community is rather small, so you will get some very good personal support]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303961 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:37:53 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303958 Stumbles : »www.lunar-linux.org/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303958 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:37:21 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303918 munky99999 :
quote:
Hey everybody,

I've never started a topic on here so bear with me, as I bang this one out between calls.

I'm looking to adopt a different *nix from Ubuntu seeing as I want to get a little more "in-depth" about linux.

I wouldnt ditch ubuntu tbh. You should get into ubuntu as the majority of the things you can do in any other distro can be done in ubuntu.

quote:
I'm looking for something modern, with a frequent release schedule (rolling release distro maybe?) and hopefully good support for modern hardware.

This here is what would likely discount gentoo or arch or similar. They rarely need to release new. They instead have network isos which are tiny that you use to basically get the operating system there. You then go and pull what you need down.

Ubuntu again is king here with bleeding edge releases and cutting edge long term support releases.

Fedora-redhat-suse is your alternative. They are designed for work or enterprise environments so stability and compatibility is important to them.

quote:
I would consider myself somewhere between beginner and intermediate, I've compiled a few programs, and I'm not overly terrified of command lines and CLIs.

I would say stay with ubuntu and learn to unlock the furry within. It's all there ready to be used. You just need to discover it.

Also of note. You might like to try out Backtrack. It's a penetration testing distro with tools built in that are very difficult to get a hold of normally.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303918 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:27:23 EDT Why limit yourself to One *nix? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303791 mike_f : If you want to learn AND have a usable, reliable and maintainable system at all times, use Debian/XFCE4 as a host and try out all of these other *nixes under Virtualbox.

Alternatively, run a multiboot system. No big deal if you can deal with gparted and grub.

If you want to test your BSD related sanity, dig into OpenSolaris :o .]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303791 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:56:14 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303734 El Quintron : Ok so far from what I've read its pretty much between Slackware and Arch. Speaking of Slackware has anyone tried Zenwalk? I hear it's Slackware based.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303734 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:43:26 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303719 Silentwolf : I'd suggest Gentoo as well, used it on my server and workstation for a number of years and have been happy with it.
--
Brad ~ Blog | Vanadiel Ranch (FFXI)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303719 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:40:35 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303499 firephoto : Gentoo is good but the actuall system upkeep is going to involve some gentoo only tools so the value of learning "linux" isn't going to be much more than other distros except in the sense that things might break more often with your own special touch being the source of trouble perhaps. ;)

My frustration started with Mandrake, progressed to suse and near anger at the stupidity and ended up with Gentoo as far as learning goes but progressed to Kubuntu as the needs of use outweighed the need to tinker. I recently dived back into Gentoo and the previous knowledge did help but what I needed to know to setup and run Gentoo again was really all Gentoo specific. I ended up not staying with Gentoo but might go back with a different approach again in the future. The project does have some stability again too which is good but it seems to be lacking the finish needed for things to work like they should which leave you having to tinker to make things work in a normal way. I think the 'slim and trim' goes to an extreme here when we're talking about changes that affect nobody but those who need the changes... ;)

Linux is Linux and what people like get promoted as 'better to learn with' a lot of the time. I promise you that you can learn everything and anything you want with any distro plus you'll learn how that distro works too which won't help you with another distro. Yum? RPM? any of those flavors? I know nothing but I promise you I can compile or change any config file which might even break something. Again they are all different and it will trace back to someones personal preferences most likely and not anything based on what's best. :)

Pardus is very popular and somewhat unique. It started as a Gentoo offshoot but became it's own system as the developers changed things. I haven't ran it myself but it's one of those strange ones that I've never heard anyone trying it and not liking it. I'm pretty confident all the bits are there to 'learn linux' too. I see the PiSi packages a lot too with individual software releases from various projects so it must have a little momentum behind it and some form of simplicity since I don't see 4 different sets of PiSi files for 2 years worth of distro releases. ;) (i also think i talked myself into trying it)
--
Say no to JAMS!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303499 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:44:09 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303403 disturbed1 : LFS is not that difficult. Time consuming yes. It reminds me of how Gentoo used to be with the stage1 builds. It comes with a book that has step by step instructions. If you can read, you can do LFS. The question is if you want to do an LFS install.

The next best thing to LFS is Slackware, and reading the source directory on the Slackware DVD. This is what re-sold me on Slackware. It's just amazing, and something that is too often taken for granted. The simple human understanding nature in which you can build, rebuild, and customize Slackware. It is simple shell scripts, no bashisms, this that flags, just easy to understand plain English complete shell scripts.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303403 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:23:36 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303357 nixen :
said by El Quintron See Profile :

I've read about linux from scratch and it would be a project and a half.

Basically I'd go from being an Ubuntu user to a linux expert. I don't know if I could pull that learning curve without have familiarized myself with a "true" linux though...

It's tempting...
If you ever want to achieve anything, it's better to reach beyond your grasp. Even if you fail to achieve expert, you'll most likely be far closer than someone who sets lower goals.
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303357 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:12:28 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303304 El Quintron : I've read about linux from scratch and it would be a project and a half.

Basically I'd go from being an Ubuntu user to a linux expert. I don't know if I could pull that learning curve without have familiarized myself with a "true" linux though...

It's tempting...
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303304 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:57:48 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303254 disturbed1 : There's an old saying -
If you learn Red Hat, you learn Red Hat. If you learn SuSE, you learn SuSE. But if you learn Slackware, you learn Linux

Gentoo would be my number 3 choice behind LFS. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303254 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:47:21 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303230 El Quintron : Hmm seeing as I'm torn between Slackware and Gentoo, that may be my Distro of choice!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303230 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:41:55 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303224 Kakalaky : I like Arch because it is a simple rolling release distro with up to date packages. I would describe it as what would happen if Slackware and Gentoo merged.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303224 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:40:44 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303075 pablo2525 : Howdy,

I find openSUSE to be a great distribution which has many similarities to proprietary Unices.

Given I'm a scum-sucking consultant, I need to be ready to be (somewhat) versed in proprietary Unices: HP-UX, Solaris, etc.

Some folks dislike openSUSE because there's a Microsoft integral. In the end, I don't care because some of the products I use are Microsoft-based. It'd be silly to deny that Microsoft doesn't produce some very good products. :)

Also, some of the tools I use only run in Windows.

Cheers,
-pablo
--
openSUSE 11.1;KDE
ISP: TekSavvy DSL; backhauled via a 6KM wireless link]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303075 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:10:24 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303067 El Quintron : Thank you everyone for the imput,

So far it seems my "complex" distro is going to be a toss up between Slackware and Gentoo. I'm not going to go with Debian, due to its similarities to Ubuntu (being the parent disto n'all)

I'm itching to try Gentoo, and Slackware 13, but I have a question for Gentoo users here; and againg this may be ignorant on my part but I've heard that Gentoo is a little too customizable.

So how long from start to finish with Gentoo? I'm used to going from zero to complete with Ubuntu in under 45 mins, I'm aware this isn't possible with Gentoo but how long does it take?

I also know that Gentoo users are some of the biggest contributors on the ubuntu forums, which tells me they know how to work it.

@Kakalaky:
I have read some documention about Arch, and I haven't tried it. Why do you like it?
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303067 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:08:20 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303002 No_Strings : It's far less of a fight these days, in part due to kernel enhancements. Even so, some of the design principles remain:

It still boots to a command prompt by default

The installer is an ncurses UI, not a point & click wizard.

Upgrading a package that requires configuration file changes drops a new config file next to the original. As a user, you decide whether to replace old with new, edit old to incorporate new or do nothing at all. Slackware's designers would never presume to make those decisions for you.

Configuration files are well documented.

Stability and security are more important than release schedules. A current tree is available for those wanting bleeding edge or to test. I usually compile from source if I need something newer than what's released - Pidgin and the GIMP, usually.

Updates are maintained for ancient releases, so you can be secure even if you're rev-locked on something as old as shdesigns See Profile.

There is no automated update manager. Again, the Slackware maintainers do not presume to tell you how to manage your system. Updates are made available. It's up to you to decide what to install and when. Third party tools are available, though, for those who want extra guidance or help with dependencies.

It's fast. Because there aren't 50 GUI tools for every function, I found it to be faster than the kitchen sink distros. That and sticking with XCFE4 as my DE keeps me from having to run on the h/w upgrade treadmill.

I'd be the first to admit it's not everyone's cup of tea. I found the BSD-style init more intuitive than the SysV init I'd used with Mandrake, Red Hat and SuSE. It's not easy to start with Slack if you have never seen a *nix system. Given the OP's comfort level, I think it would be worth considering.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23303002 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:54:31 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23302806 nixen :
said by No_Strings See Profile :

Slackware is an excellent choice for a couple of reasons. It does none of the hand-holding many "just works" distributions offer. It forces you to do some things on your own which results in a more savvy user.
That's the one I used to use in the early 90s. Downloaded the various versions from Walnut Creek's mirrors. =)

Fighting with Slackware is probably what most enabled me to have a career in UNIX.
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23302806 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:11:07 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23302791 No_Strings : Slackware is an excellent choice for a couple of reasons. It does none of the hand-holding many "just works" distributions offer. It forces you to do some things on your own which results in a more savvy user.

It has excellent hardware support and a robust community of users happy to help. If you like having a GUI for everything or are easily put off by a challenge, it's not the best choice.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23302791 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:09:22 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23302781 shdesigns : My vote is for Gentoo also. All I use on my servers and router. Easy to keep it up to date and when emerge needs help when the equivalent of "RPM hell" occurs, it usually points you to a web page with the steps needed.

Slackware is too "old" for my taste. I started on it and did not like the BSD-style init and config.

Fedora would be another choice. I ran it for a year but was dissapointed by the poor package management at the repositories.

Debian would be on my list to try. Centos also as I ran RH for years until it went to fedora.
--
Scott Henion

Embedded Systems Consultant,
SHDesigns home - DIY Welder]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23302781 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:08:02 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23302775 Kakalaky : Arch]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23302775 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:07:17 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23302733 El Quintron : Awsome thank you.

So far: (from tsi forum as well)

1 Slackware
1 Debian
2 Gentoo.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23302733 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 14:59:18 EDT Re: Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23302626 GILXA1226 : I'd go with Gentoo, but I'm biased, it's all I use. You get a great level of customization, but there are also tons of resources to help with just about any issue. Installs are definitely not as bad as they used to be, and the directions are spot on.
--
We don't give a d@mn for the whole state of Michigan... we're from OHIO! O!H! ... I!O!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23302626 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 14:42:29 EDT Looking to adopt a new *nix http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23302570 El Quintron : Hey everybody,

I've never started a topic on here so bear with me, as I bang this one out between calls. :)

I'm looking to adopt a different *nix from Ubuntu seeing as I want to get a little more "in-depth" about linux.

I'm looking for something modern, with a frequent release schedule (rolling release distro maybe?) and hopefully good support for modern hardware.

I would consider myself somewhere between beginner and intermediate, I've compiled a few programs, and I'm not overly terrified of command lines and CLIs.

I was wondering what your preferences were?

I'll be taking your distros, reading up on them on distrowatch and probably installing a few of them on a wired machine.

Thanks again.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,23302570 Fri, 06 Nov 2009 14:31:38 EDT