Brownbay
Premium
join:2005-03-13
North York, ON
| NO ONE knows what's wrong with my line!
DSL Type: G.992.1 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 512 / 5.056
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0,00 / 0,00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,0 / 7,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 30,5 / 2,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6,0 / 31,0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IKNS
Those are the stats taken directly from the STv516.
My problem is this... I can't seem to keep a connection for longer than 2 to 3days. And I'm not sure where the disconnect is happening.
As you can see from the stats, I'm on an IKNS remote... and my downstream stats are quite close to perfect. My upstream stats look bad, but as I understand, that's only the IKNS remote incorrectly reporting stats.
The remote is so close to my house that I could practically spit on it.
Is it really possible that I can have great downstream stats and horrible upstream stats? I was on a 6016/768 profile before, but after Teksavvy opened a ticket, Bell has now stuck me on at 5056/512 profile. Sucks I know, but right now, I just want a stable connection.
Here is my connection log pulled by Teksavvy:
For the login issue, yes I do see many in the last 10 check
StartTime StopTime/Last Updated SessionTime InOctets OutOctets TerminateCause IP ERX Action
11/1/2009 8:48:06 PM 11/1/2009 8:48:06 PM 0 0 0 206.248.133.66
11/1/2009 8:48:00 PM 11/1/2009 8:48:00 PM 0 0 0 User-Request 206.248.133.66
11/1/2009 6:50:37 PM 11/1/2009 8:33:33 PM 6170 14503964 11399724 NAS-Request 206.248.152.125
11/1/2009 6:50:37 PM 11/1/2009 6:50:43 PM 5 2618 2187 User-Request 206.248.152.125
11/1/2009 6:13:34 PM 11/1/2009 6:17:35 PM 241 4090 9371 NAS-Request 206.248.159.41
11/1/2009 6:13:33 PM 11/1/2009 6:13:40 PM 6 252 610 User-Request 206.248.159.41
11/1/2009 1:39:01 PM 11/1/2009 5:59:58 PM 15652 5184506 45429760 NAS-Request 206.248.152.218
11/1/2009 1:38:54 PM 11/1/2009 1:39:07 PM 6 252 716 User-Request 206.248.152.218
11/1/2009 12:04:06 PM 11/1/2009 1:25:17 PM 4876 16111652 25040140 NAS-Request 206.248.133.169
11/1/2009 12:03:54 PM 11/1/2009 12:04:07 PM 6 252 2723 User-Request 206.248.133.169
Their theory is that these "user initiated" disconnects is the router dropping the PPPoE session and then reconnecting as they don't see any loss of sync. Which seems plausible as when the disconnect happens and I'm around the computer, if I look at the modem, the dsl light is green. So it looks like the modem is fine.
Can anyone here help me figure out how I'd go about gettting rid of my disconnects? |
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dslrocker3
join:2002-05-26
Toronto
4 edits | said by BrownbayIs it really possible that I can have great downstream stats and horrible upstream stats? I was on a 6016/768 profile before, but after Teksavvy opened a ticket, Bell has now stuck me on at 5056/512 profile. Sucks I know, but right now, I just want a stable connection.
:
There is no 6016/768 profile with Bell/Teksavvy. The profile is 6016/800. you are connecting at 768 on the upstream partially because of the line and partially because you are connected to a Iknanos remote dslam. Since you're sure you line is fine, I bet that you regret opening a ticket. We need to realize that opening tickets should not always be encouraged. This often results in Bell just lowering your profile unecessarily.
I would connect the modem directly to the computer for the time being to see what happens. |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | What a coïncidence, i replied just about the same thing here:
»Re: [Internet] Bad connection at night suddenly
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Brownbay
Premium
join:2005-03-13
North York, ON
| reply to dslrocker3
Two Teksavvy techs on two separate occasions insisted that there was noise on my line and the only way to resolve it would be to open up a ticket.
That's what's throwing me off a little bit as I can't seem to understand how the downstream could be perfect where as the upstream is shot to hell. I'm too close to the remote for this to even be an issue. The bell lines that come from the street to the NID have been replaced 3 years ago and there is a direct phone line from the NID into the computer room where the modem is connected, that's the only jack for that line in the house (as I have a home line, and a fax/internet line). |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | BB> I'm too close to the remote for this to even be an issue.
On the contrary, in presence of a "Bridge Tap" you may very well
be experiencing severe disruptions caused by strong "echoes"... |
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dslrocker3
join:2002-05-26
Toronto
3 edits | reply to Brownbay
said by Brownbay  :Two Teksavvy techs on two separate occasions insisted that there was noise on my line and the only way to resolve it would be to open up a ticket. That's what's throwing me off a little bit as I can't seem to understand how the downstream could be perfect where as the upstream is shot to hell. I'm too close to the remote for this to even be an issue. The bell lines that come from the street to the NID have been replaced 3 years ago and there is a direct phone line from the NID into the computer room where the modem is connected, that's the only jack for that line in the house (as I have a home line, and a fax/internet line). You shouldn't believe everything that you are told. Your line is one those ones that people will envy. As I was hinting at earlier, your upstream results are very typical of being connected to an IKNS rdslam. It's just the way it is and doesn't indicate a real problem with the line. based on prelimintary statistics that you have provided,your line is a good as it gets. I'm really surprised that the Teksavvy technician told you that there was noise on the line. How did come to that conclusion? Did they runs a few days worth of tests to determine the error rate? were there any loses of sync? Your statistics are fine. True diagnoisis of problems can take days or even weeks. There could still end up being a line problem but why do i get the feeling that you just got cheated out of your 6Mbps profile? |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | reply to Brownbay
Time for trouble-shooting!
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Brownbay
Premium
join:2005-03-13
North York, ON
1 edit | Okay, so I had no idea what a Bridge Tap was, but this wiki article seems to shed a little light on the matter: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge_tap
I still really don't understand what I can physically do to fix or get rid of the echo.
I'll have to go take a picture, but there are two 'wet' lines that come into my house... one specifically for DSL/Fax and the other as the main home line.
We needed a third line and so bell came and installed another NID, but according to them, all it did was take the home line and split that... it supposedly did nothing to the DSL line coming in. This line or split off is no longer in use anymore as we've ported that number to Primus VOIP.
This is also why I don't think I can live with a meager 512Kbps up speed.
----
EDIT: So I attached two pictures of the NID's. The second picture is one of the NID that was installed by bell so we could have a third line, but it's no longer in use. |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Pictures would be great, here's the camera:
'DSL_StatScope v1.2'
Define your log-file 1st and then connect...
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xbell
@cgocable.net
| reply to Brownbay
That lower box is a pair gain or digital multiplexer. Here is a pic of the guts.
Basically if they don't have spare pairs and you are enc. for example the will put two lines on one copper pair.
That is why there is quad going down from the top nid with bsw and back up with quad and two lines.
I don't know what effect this will have on your line but I would venture to say it's not good. |
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Brownbay
Premium
join:2005-03-13
North York, ON
| That's exactly what the insides of my box looked like when I saw them installing it. They didn't split the DSL line, but the home phone line... But, I guess since really only one copper line comes from the street, it gets aggregated at some point.
Bicephale , I've uploaded what my stats look like from the Stat Scope 1.2 program... How long should I keep it running? What exactly are you looking for? |
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dslrocker3
join:2002-05-26
Toronto
1 edit | I would keep running test as long as you possibly can. From those statistics, I tend to believe that there is absolutely nothing wrong with your line. If all of those "0" numbers reamain zero and you are still experince problems, it is not a line problem. I know it's too late to turn back time but this type of troubleshooting should have been conducted before contacting Teksavvy. We won't know if the 768Kbps upload sync rate was causing a problem at this point but once the damage is done, it's done (Bell lowering the profile). I strongly suspect that there was also no problem with the dowsntream results, yet they lowered that setting too. In the end, your issues might have nothing to do with the phone line at all but your profile got slowed down and I fear you will not get your old profile setting back. |
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xbell
@cgocable.net
| reply to Brownbay
said by Brownbay :That's exactly what the insides of my box looked like when I saw them installing it. They didn't split the DSL line, but the home phone line... But, I guess since really only one copper line comes from the street, it gets aggregated at some point. There will be two pairs coming to your house one pair will be dsl the other will carry your home phone and fax.
So the dsl signal travels to and from your house along the bsw with the signal from the pair gain. Can't be good.
Can you combine your fax as a distinctive ring on your home line to negate the pair gain? |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to Brownbay
You wrote that TekSavvy insisted about excess noise, twice, so
now you have the means to capture/visualise it, Brownbay! How
long depends on how patient/motivated you are and it's likely we
won't know what we're looking for until we see it - which is why
i have invited you to post your log-file once done. A 24 h record
is the minimum i'd consider but that means leaving the computer
running day and night... A MoDem like the Siemens SpeedStream
4200 memorizes ninety-six samples a day, if you have one use it
and then you get decent long-term graphs without the need for
external monitoring SoftWare; a 2Wire can keep one week worth
of statistics taken four times per hour, if i'm not mistaking.
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Brownbay
Premium
join:2005-03-13
North York, ON
| I just wanted to thank you guys for all the help and information. I'm really learning a lot.
My computer's on 24/7 anyway, so leaving the Stat tool running won't be a problem at all.
So from the looks of things, I plan on doing the following:
My profile is now set at 5056/512, so I'll collect stats for 24 hours and if there are no errors, then I'll ask to be put on the 5056/800 profile.
As far as the disconnects go, should I request a Bell tech to come out and have him remove the extra NID that is no longer in use? What else can or should I physically do the lines? Is the extra NID my 'Bridge Tap'? Because once that's removed, one pair that comes into the house would be of the home phone and the other pair would be for DSL/fax.
I need a separate fax number, so that's why I got a 2nd line and I just put DSL on that line as there was only one jack coming into the house and it kept things simple. |
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dslrocker3
join:2002-05-26
Toronto
4 edits | Check your wiring just to rule out any possible problems. Unfortunately, unless you find a problem and correct it, your line is only capable of connecting at 768Kbps on the upstream side. As the upstream sync profile is either 512Kbps or 800Kbps when the download is set to 5056Kbps, I think your chances of getting Bell to agree to put you at 5056 down and 800Kbps are extremely slim. You might be stuck at 5056/512 and i suspect that they probably even turned interleaving on. As for the 6016Kbps profile that you were on before, I still haven't heard anyone at Bell or an ISP say that G.A.S. customers are eligible for the 6Mbps on residential/non-business lines.
Brownbay, if you come out with anything from this whole experience, realize that you want to limit your amount of trouble tickets to an absolute minimum. Getting Bell involved more times increases your chances of Bell just lowering your profile more. If you continue to have problems and yet another ticket is opened with Bell, don't be so surprised if 5056/512 suddenly turns into 4032/512.
As you said before, your "disconnections" appear to be PPPoE disconnections and not losses of sync. If that's the case and you continue to have zero errors being reported by that test program, it's not a line problem that you have and there's no reason to get Bell to do anything with the wiring. Playing around with the NID will do nothing favorable for you in that case. |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to Brownbay
I agree, lets see if there's motive to suspect some line
problem then try to get rid of that ugly 5056/512 Kbps
profile which most likely means Interleave mode indeed!
Some days are so depressing...
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dslrocker3
join:2002-05-26
Toronto
3 edits | brownbay, don't get me wrong, there could still prove to be something wrong with the line but based on what I've seen so far, the problem has not yet been determined and I feel it was premature to get Teksavvy and Bell involved in the first place. When you contact techncial support, people tend to expect instant results and the customer will often just be given a best guess of the problem. It doesn't necessarily mean that the information you are given will be correct. True troubleshooting and resolution of problems is not usually instant and often cannot be completed with a simple 5 minute phone call.
As you already know, the IKNS remotes act very strangely on the upstream side. However, Speedtouch 516 modems usually are one of the few modems that can still connect at 800Kbps on the upstream. So you'll probably want to play around with your house's wiring first. It's a matter of dealing with one thing at a time. Optimize your wiring first and rule that out and then you can work from there. Calling the ISP numerous times is just asking for trouble and more Bell "profile games". |
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dslrocker3
join:2002-05-26
Toronto
4 edits | reply to Bicephale
said by Bicephale :I agree, lets see if there's motive to suspect some line problem then try to get rid of that ugly 5056/512 Kbps profile which most likely means Interleave mode indeed! let's face it. Bell loves to set people to 5056/512 and 6016/512 and it almost seems as if it's changed to a default, even when there are no problems with the line and that you'll only get an 800Kbps profile if you argue for it. They even tried to set me to 5056/512 Kbps interleaved and Bell made up some nonsense excuses but I wasn't having any of that and told them that I knew that only 48% of my upstream line was being used when being set to 512Kbps and insisted that they put me on the proper profile. I wouldn't be surprised if Bell just does the 5056/512 interleaved nonsense without first even checking for problems. |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| The most depressing part of it is that if one must have
5056/512 Kbps we now know it's possible on a TP-Link
TD-8841 or similar to set it from the customer's end!...
Moreover, we learned from an American this week that
Interleave can be made relatively benign in terms of its
latency and yet still noise-resistant by using values for
some obscur DSLAM settings which the workers at Bell
fail to handle correctly, apparently.
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