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Jdiva
join:2009-11-07
Orange, NJ

Jdiva

Member

[Scam] Ebay's Motor Vehicle Protection Program (VPP)

Hello,
I'm a college student who's been looking for a used car to buy. A lot of the ones I came across mentioned the Ebay Vehicle Protectio Program. So when I finally found one that I was really interested in, I didn't question the whole Ebay thing because I've been hearing it from other sellers. As eager as I am to get a car, I of course decided to go with this one specific buyer, I sent him my info so that he can let the supposedly "Ebay Agent" know that I'm his selected buyer. For a few days, all three parties (myself, the seller, ad the Motor Vpp) have been emailing each other daily, without missing a beat. I asked a lot of questions to make sure this was ligit, and finally on mon.nov 2nd, I sent out the payment through Western Union, faxed them the receipt and everything I was told to do.

Eventually they got back to me, saying that they did recieve the payment and that they'll email me soon (12-24 hours) with a tracking number and the arrival date of my cargo. It is now sat.nov.7th and still no word from either party (seller or agent). I have sent them about 3-4 emails asking about the progress of the process, and they have yet to respond to me about my concern. It looked so real, because the seller sent me the carfax and everything as far as the vehicle's records. I really don't know what else to do. I thought I was being careful enough by consulting my mother for every bit of advice before I made my final decision, but obviously I thought wrong. I need to find a way to get my money back asap.

Any suggestions...Anyone?!
Thank you,
MGD
MVM
join:2002-07-31

1 recommendation

MGD

MVM

You can contact Western Union and obtain the details on who and where the money was picked up at. You should also notify Western Union that it was a fraud. However, there is zero chance that you can recover the money.

It is difficult to even give you any suggestions on other options to file complaints, without any specific details on the transaction.

Where did you find the car listed, Craigslist ?

Post the email address of the criminals that you were corresponding with.

Post any website links that they gave you.

Post a copy of the Western Union instructions, showing the name and address of who and where to send the money to.

Redact your info name, email address, etc.

File a complaint at »www.ic3.gov

Western Union or MoneyGram should NEVER EVER be used for a purchase transaction.

Never purchase vehicles that you cannot go look at.

MGD
Jdiva
join:2009-11-07
Orange, NJ

Jdiva

Member

Ok...thank u, I sent a report to ic3. I hope this works out. Thx again 4ur help

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds to Jdiva

Premium Member

to Jdiva
I'm curious, did you read the terms of the eBay VPP located at the eBay Motors web site? If not why not? How did you determine that you were eligible?

eBay Motors > Buy > Vehicle Purchase Protection
»pages.ebay.com/ebaymotor ··· tection/
quote:
Eligibility Requirements

Participation in the VPP program is subject to the following eligibility requirements:

You have successfully completed the purchase of a vehicle* priced at more than $100 from one of the following categories on the eBay Site:

Car and Truck
Motorcycle
Go Kart, Scooter, and Moped
ATV
Personal Water Craft
Snowmobile
Boat
Bus
Commercial Truck
RV or Camper
Race Car (not street legal)
Trailer (non-RV)
Dune Buggy / Sand Rail

Note:
* You will be deemed to have successfully completed the purchase if you receive confirmation in your "My eBay" that you have successfully won, or purchased, an item through an auction, Buy It Now, or Best Offer.
Did you check for warnings or articles about scammers and their tricks?

Craigslist Scams and Fraudulent Use of Vehicle Purchase Protection
»forums.ebay.com/db1/topi ··· 10078002
quote:
All members should read this important warning.
If you shop on websites other than eBay, you should exercise caution if someone emails you claiming to be an eBay representative!


We are seeing an increase in reports of fake eBay Motors transactions that originate automotive websites other than eBay, such as Craigslist.

Fraudsters are sending online shoppers fake email messages claiming to be from the eBay Trust and Safety Department, the eBay Motors Finance Center, an eBay Escrow Agent, or from the eBay Vehicle Purchase Protection Program. These emails are all fake and often contain links to spoof websites that contain pages that look like authentic eBay Motors web pages, but are not. The fake eBay sites might even ask you for personal information and then send you fake eBay “Personalized Payment” instructions.

Don’t be fooled! If you are shopping on Craigslist or another website that offers classified ads, you should follow the community warnings (such as these from Craigslist) and meet and pay the seller in person. And if you exchange emails with someone who claims to be an “agent” of eBay you should be very cautious. Fraudsters often send spoof emails that appear to be from eBay (or one of our partners), but are not.

Never pay with MoneyGram or Western Union. Western Union and MoneyGram are prohibited as a payment method on eBay Motors. eBay will never recommend that you use either to pay for a vehicle.

It is important to remember, eBay does not “validate” listings, provide escrow services, or make payment arrangements on behalf of sellers. To verify that an email claiming to be from eBay is legitimate you should sign in to your My eBay account and check your In Box. If the email is legitimate you will find a copy in your My eBay In Box. If you don’t find the same message in your In Box, it is fake.

If you have more questions about spoof emails and "phishing" fraud, or how to report suspicious listings or emails, please visit our Security Center. Also, at the top right corner of the eBay home page is a link to Live Help, where you can start a live chat session with an eBay customer service representative who can help you verify whether a listing is authentic.

If you feel you were defrauded when you were shopping on the Craigslist site you may use this link to contact Craigslist.
If the VPP is mentioned in an ad off of eBay or in an email response to you that you replied to that was not at eBay and there is no link provided to the eBay Motors web site that is 100% telling you that every single one of those are scams and the vehicles do not exist at that price or with free shipping. People don't ship cars at their expense with 3 or 5 or 7 day inspection periods, only the scammers use that as a selling trick to get your money away from you.

Did you tell Western Union what the reason was that the payment was being transferred for? Did they tell you money sent with them is not refundable or held in a escrow if you later change your mind? Did they warn you that scammers use their service to sell cars that do not show up at »www.motors.ebay.com web pages and that they are not part of eBay plus they have nothing to do with eBay's VPP?

Were any of these emails from eBay.com and did they direct you to only make the purchase at »www.motors.ebay.com? Did any of the emails also show up in your inbox at your eBay.com member's page like they are supposed to do also? If no, then that means they are 100% fake.

What did the scammers say or do that made you believe eBay would cover a transaction that you didn't initiate through/didn't buy through a eBay web page/auction page?

Sorry to hear that you were taken advantage of and have lost your money.

HTH
music man
Premium Member
join:2008-08-12

1 edit

music man to Jdiva

Premium Member

to Jdiva
"Eventually they got back to me, saying that they did recieve the payment and that they'll email me soon (12-24 hours) with a tracking number and the arrival date of my cargo".
Does this mean that you were directed to an " independent" escrow service? How were you to use the tracking number? I ask as there are lots of fake escrow websites being created by Romanian criminals to support this type of fraud.
Jdiva
join:2009-11-07
Orange, NJ

Jdiva

Member

Yes I did a brief research, but obviously not enough, bc I'm just now finding about all of this. Sadly, it took them getting my money b4 I went deep into the research.
And they said they were gonna get back to me within 12-24 hours after receiving the money (to give me a tracking #), but that never happened. Once they got the money, I faxed them the receipt and they emailed me saying that they got it and then they will get back to me soon, but like I said I never heard from them since then. It's been exactly a week now :-(
MGD
MVM
join:2002-07-31

MGD

MVM

You may be able to get more specific advice, if you post the information that I requested above, wbsites that you were given, the Western Union instructions, etc, etc.

In addition, that information will also alert other victims who may be in the process of being duped also.

MGD
missdaisyx
join:2009-12-29
San Jose, CA

missdaisyx to Jdiva

Member

to Jdiva
I'm curious this also happened to me, did you ever get your money back? :l

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

1 edit

Doctor Olds

Premium Member

said by missdaisyx:

I'm curious this also happened to me, did you ever get your money back? :l
The money is long gone for both of you. You'd have to supply the info requested by MGD See Profile in order to start to improve your chances for any future recovery (partial or full). Otherwise it is a write off to a hard lesson learned. Don't believe every single word in an email and check everything that you are being told as that alone would have told you the VPP emails were fakes, the terms were falsified/don't match what eBay Motors shows for the actual terms and that there was no eBay Motors page to legitimately bid on/buy it now/make offer to purchase the prospective vehicle.

Shelby
@comcast.net

Shelby to Jdiva

Anon

to Jdiva
Check out this site.. I was almost scammed in a situation just like yours. The Vehicle Protection Program is through paypal and this person has been trying to scam people and convincing them to send the money to western union...
»scammerdatabase.wordpres ··· ment-156

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds

Premium Member

said by Shelby :

The Vehicle Protection Program is through paypal and this person has been trying to scam people and convincing them to send the money to western union...
»scammerdatabase.wordpres ··· ment-156
No, the VPP (Vehicle Protection Program) is through eBay Motors on eligible purchases of over $100.00 at auction, buy it now or best offer sales of vehicles listed on »www.motors.ebay.com/
autosec
join:2007-08-01
italy

autosec

Member

check out this informative site about who does these scams:

»autosec4u.de/seite8-e.html
kmprebel
join:2010-01-28
Saltillo, MS

kmprebel

Member

I have found myself in this same situation, I am sooo thankful that I found these posts. I was about to send my money first thing tomorrow.... I gave my shipping address and my name and phone number but no money... Do you think I have anything to worry about if I did not wire them the money yet?

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds

Premium Member

said by kmprebel:

I have found myself in this same situation, I am sooo thankful that I found these posts. I was about to send my money first thing tomorrow....
Glad that this web site forum and these posts saved you from being scammed plus kept you from losing your money.
said by kmprebel:

I gave my shipping address and my name and phone number but no money... Do you think I have anything to worry about if I did not wire them the money yet?
Yes, they can use your name, number and address for future Identity Theft if they get tired of the Craig's List Auto Ads Scam or they can sell your info to other scammers that specialize in Identity Theft.
kmprebel
join:2010-01-28
Saltillo, MS

kmprebel

Member

I used my name, but the address that I used was at my place of work. I am so thankful that I did not send the money. These guys were so smooth. I even talked to them on the phone about the car, and They said I could come pick it up. They picked a very unrealistic timeframe for me to arrange a pickup though. I knew the deal was too good to be true. If they did anything with my information do you think that it could be reversed or I would be out a great deal of money?

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds

Premium Member

You really should file a complaint here: »www.ic3.gov/

Did they advertise using Craig's List?

Did they give you a link to see pictures of the car and did they supply the VIN number? You can sometimes find the original eBay Auction where they stole the images from if it hasn't been more than 90 days past the date that the real vehicle sold.

As far as ID Theft, read here:

»www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/micr ··· idtheft/

Click on the title "IF YOUR INFORMATION HAS BEEN COMPROMISED, BUT NOT YET MISUSED" to read more.

They can do just about anything with the right info. Even to creating fake documents with their picture using your info so they can have fake IDs to use in order to pick up other's scammed funds at Money Gram/Western Union.

SA
@mchsi.com

SA to Jdiva

Anon

to Jdiva
I got scammed by trying to buy a vehicle from Yahoo autos. I used the VIN number to track all previous transactions and found that the vehicle was posted on ebay, and not sold. But the price they wanted was $6000 less than the highest bidder on ebay, which made me suspicious.
Everything seemed very legit though, so I carried on with the e-mails. In the mean time, I contacted ebay and got the phone number for the owner to find out if he sold the vehicle. I also contacted the Cops to find out who the vehicle title belongs to, and nothing added up. So, I did not lose my money, but they have my name and address.
Please be aware when you get these type of requests for Western Union money transfers / deposits.

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds

Premium Member

said by SA :

I got scammed by trying to buy a vehicle from Yahoo autos.

So, I did not lose my money, but they have my name and address.
Please be aware when you get these type of requests for Western Union money transfers / deposits.
Did you send any money or not? I am confused as in the beginning of your post you say that you were scammed and yet at the end you say that you did not lose your money, so that means that you didn't get scammed after all to me.

saved
@embarqhsd.net

saved to Jdiva

Anon

to Jdiva
to jdiva your experience has just saved me i actually fell for the same thing sent my money and came back didnt feel right and started searching found your post and was able to call western union and cancel thank you so very much

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds

Premium Member

Do you realize how lucky you are? You called in time to get your money back because the scammer had not gotten to Western Union yet to pick up your payment. You are extremely lucky as most lose their money and never get it back. You are going to get some funny emails now from the scam artist.

I'm curious why you didn't check with eBay Motors to find out and more importantly verify what you were told about eBay's VPP (Vehicle Protection Program) was factual or not? Remember in the future to "Trust, but Verify" what you are being told when dealing in email communications and never assume.
MichaelOreg
join:2010-02-15
Wilsonville, OR

MichaelOreg to Jdiva

Member

to Jdiva
Okay, this is the closest thing I could find to reporting this scam/fraud. Person uses email of tarrynkramer@msn.com Also used a fax of (866) 390-9704 for the Western Union confirmation to a STEVEN DANIELS. Email address for confirmation as well of invoice@safetymotors-ebay.com I asked for name & address. A fake name of Kramer Tarryn was given. Fake address of 156 5th Ave, Tampa. Address for Steven Daniels where the WU is to be sent is a hotel in Tampa. Jose M Garza is owner of web address for invoice@safetymotors-ebay.com (found on networksolutions.com/whois) Jose M Garza, 7010 Glen Trl, San Antonio. This has obviously been going on for some time. Pertinent information needs to get out on the web so others can be saved from making a costly mistake. I don't know how the perp could utilize that email address & not be connected to Jose Garza. I have non-published number to Jose Garza. It is good. I will try to determine more info before contact San Antonio police. Tampa police say others have been victim to this fraud. Vehicle recently advertised was 2008 Prius Hybrid for $3350. Of course that is not the only one used.

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

1 edit

Doctor Olds

Premium Member

That is all the page shows? "Well Done!" ?




update

The Domain info ID used likely a poor sucker that had his ID stolen by these criminals and if you ask him, he probably knows nothing or very little about registering domains. I seriously doubt that a US Resident would use Aruba S.p.A. for registrations when there is GoDaddy.com and a hundred other US based registers. That is what gives it away that the ID is very likely stolen.

»whois.domaintools.com/sa ··· ebay.com
quote:
Whois Record

Registrant Search:
"jose garza" owns about 133 other domains
Email Search:
is associated with about 2 domains
is associated with about 406,256 domains
Registrar History: 1 registrar
NS History: 1 change on 2 unique name servers over 1 year.
IP History: 1 change on 2 unique name servers over 1 years.
Whois History: 5 records have been archived since 2009-04-26 .
Reverse IP: 1,064 other sites hosted on this server.

Registrant:
jose garza
7010 glen trl, 12
sanantonio, US 78239
IT

Domain name: SAFETYMOTORS-EBAY.COM

Administrative Contact:
garza, jose
7010 glen trl, 12
sanantonio, US 78239
IT
+39.17650982255
Technical Contact:
garza, jose
7010 glen trl, 12
sanantonio, US 78239
IT
+39.17650982255

Registration Service Provider:
Aruba S.p.A. - Servizio Aruba.it,
+39.05750505
+39.0575862000 (fax)
»www.aruba.it
Supporto tecnico - Technical support - Asistencia tecnica :

»assistenza.aruba.it

Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.
Record last updated on 28-Jan-2010.
Record expires on 25-Apr-2011.
Record created on 25-Apr-2009.

Registrar Domain Name Help Center:
»domainhelp.tucows.com

Domain servers in listed order:
DNS2.TECHNORAIL.COM
DNS.TECHNORAIL.COM

Domain status: clientTransferProhibited
clientUpdateProhibited

MichaelOreg
join:2010-02-15
Wilsonville, OR

MichaelOreg

Member


sent this message to Michael Lang.
Your registered name is included to help confirm this message originated from eBay.
eBay Motors Vehicle Purchase Protection

2008 Toyota Prius Hybrid

Price: $3,350.00 US

This vehicle is eligible for up to $50,000 in Vehicle Purchase Protection

Dear Michael Lang,

In consideration of the sum of $3,350.00 US, inclusive of all sales taxes, Kramer Tarryn as the Seller, sells and delivers to Michael Lang as the Buyer, at the following delivery address: OR 97070, USA; The following motor vehicle:

Make: Model: Year:
Toyota Prius Hybrid 2008
VIN: Odometer Reading: Body Type:
JTDKB20UX87743169 12,219 miles Sedan

The Seller gave the opportunity to the Buyer to inspect the Motor Vehicle or to have it inspected on arrival and the Buyer has accepted the Motor Vehicle in its existing condition until then. If the Motor Vehicle is not as the Seller described or it has any problems the Buyer can ask immediately for a refund.
Payment Instructions:

Please follow our instructions to complete the transaction safely.
The buyer must transfer the payment to Vehicle Purchase Protection (VPP) regional account.
Payment must be sent by WesternUnion; Sending payment by any other method of payment will void this transaction and your right to refund.
To submit payment, you have to transfer the money to our Vehicle Purchase Protection (VPP) Regional Manager in Florida (FL) using the details below:
Receiving Beneficiary: Steven Daniels
Address: 211 North Tampa Street, Tampa, FL 33602, USA

Important:

In order to properly validate your payment and avoid transfer related issues, send us a scanned copy of the WesternUnion transfer receipt by fax at +1-(866) 390-9704 and send us the payment details or the scanned receipt by email at the following address: invoice@safetymotors-ebay.com
Vehicle Purchase Protection (VPP) will verify the WesternUnion transfer and if the funds are available we will proceed with shipping the Motor Vehicle.
Once the Motor Vehicle is delivered, the Buyer has a 7 (seven) business days inspection period.
After the inspection period is over, the Buyer must contact Vehicle Purchase Protection (VPP) with the results of the inspection.
If, for any reason, the Motor Vehicle does not pass the Buyer's inspection, it will be returned to the Seller, on Seller's expense and the funds will be returned to the Buyer within 3 business days.

Purchase Protection And Refund:

For safety reasons the payment details will be dealt with the utmost security and will not be handed to any third parties.
Vehicle Purchase Protection (VPP) will be in full control of the funds as soon as it reaches the regional account. Once the funds has been sent to our regional account, no one will have access to it.
Vehicle Purchase Protection (VPP) will release the funds to the Seller only after the Buyer receives and accepts with the Motor Vehicle. Should the Buyer need a refund for this transaction the amount received will be sent back via bank transfer, check or money order. The account is managed and supervised by Vehicle Purchase Protection (VPP) Escrow Department.

eBay Motors Vehicle Purchase Protection (VPP)

The eBay Motors Vehicle Purchase Protection (VPP) program provides protection of up to $50,000 against certain losses associated with some types of fraud. You are automatically enrolled in the program at no charge when you complete the purchase of an eligible vehicle through our program.
If you have questions, please reply to this email or contact our live chat operators.

Copyright 2010 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners.
eBay and the eBay logo are trademarks of eBay Inc. eBay Inc. is located at 2145 Hamilton Avenue, San Jose, CA 95125.

......... cut & paste of "invoice"
MichaelOreg

MichaelOreg

Member

In a message dated 2/15/2010 2:42:11 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, tarrynkramer@msn.com writes:
Hello,

Can you please tell me what's your status regarding our deal. I'm anxious to know when are you able to proceed with the payment in order to ship the merchandise.
Thanks!

........... (laughing as I receive another email from the perp!)
MichaelOreg

MichaelOreg to Doctor Olds

Member

to Doctor Olds
Any suggestion on how to coax more info from alias Kramer Tarryn? I wrote back that I don't like the WU fee & that everything looks legit to me. I then asked for account info to deposit the money into!

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds to MichaelOreg

Premium Member

to MichaelOreg
said by MichaelOreg:

In a message dated 2/15/2010 2:42:11 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, tarrynkramer@msn.com writes:
Hello,

Can you please tell me what's your status regarding our deal. I'm anxious to know when are you able to proceed with the payment in order to ship the merchandise.
Thanks!

........... (laughing as I receive another email from the perp!)
Ask him where the Auction Page is at »www.motors.ebay.com/ so you can buy the Vehicle as you read that VPP only works for vehicles bought "through" an eBay Auction Listing Link at eBay Motors.
MichaelOreg
join:2010-02-15
Wilsonville, OR

MichaelOreg

Member

Nice! I wrote that everything looks legit & want to bypass the WU soooo what is your bank acct info so may deposit it?! As if the scammer would be gullible. Darn, didn't work.

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds

Premium Member

Tell him that you got a new email from eBay Motors and it told you to use an account held by Pay-Pal Escrow and that you were instructed to wire the money to them with the auction number. Tell him you wired it already and that you now need the auction number or eBay won't allow Pay-Pal to release the funds out of Escrow.

Tell him since you already sent the money to his email at Pay-Pal Escrow that you are waiting for the car to be shipped since you consider it "paid in full" now. Then say that if you don't get the car in 3 days, you are going to call the FBI and have them charging the seller with Interstate Commerce Crimes.
MGD
MVM
join:2002-07-31

1 recommendation

MGD to MichaelOreg

MVM

to MichaelOreg
said by MichaelOreg:

Any suggestion on how to coax more info from alias Kramer Tarryn?
...
Yes, tell them that you changed your mind, and that the deal is just too good to pass up. Tell them that you have withdrawn the cash and are ready to go to Western Union and make the transfer. Ask them to reconfirm the instructions as you do not want to make any errors in the transaction.

=============================

That should get the criminals excited knowing that anoither dupe is about to send them money.

=============================

After you receive the new confirmation of the Western Union details. Tell them thanks and that you are on the way with cash to make the transfer and are very excited about getting the car at a great price.

Follow that up with another email saying you just got back from a Western Union office where your wife's fbest friend works at. You were telling her about the great deal that you are sending money for. She told you that sometimes these deals can be scams, but that in order to make sure that it is legitimate that you should have the seller send a copy of the picture identification that will be used to pick the money up. Your wife's best friend (The Western Union agent) said that she can transmit the identity document details along with the money. That way the pick up will only be given to the person who presents that identification. She told you that this is a good way to verify that the transaction will be legit. Tell them to hurry and send a copy of the ID to you as you want to complete the deal and begin the process of getting the car. Plus you do not want to keep all that cash on hand waiting to make the transfer.

That will work about 30% of the time, especially if they think they are this close to getting a windfall:

Been there, done that:


said by MichaelOreg:

... A fake name of Kramer Tarryn was given. Fake address of 156 5th Ave, Tampa. Address for Steven Daniels where the WU is to be sent is a hotel in Tampa.
...
While there could be a duped mule involved, If that name address were given for the Western Union instructions, however it is just as likely that a rogue Western Union affiliate office will be involved in processing the pick up.

Money sent within the US via Western Union is supposed to be limited to be picked up within the designated destination area. Recently I see a lot of Western Union transfer instructions given to victims by eastern European scammers to send the funds to UK and other western EU countries. The funds are actually picked up in eastern Europe with the help of rogue agents who divert the transfer for a cut of the proceeds.

While the funds could be picked up by an imposter in the designated area using a fake id in the istructed name, it is often the latter scenario.

Doctor Olds See Profile is 100% correct when he told you that the domain is a fraudulent registration using a victim's identity. That is SOP in the world of cybercrime. No criminal with a 2 digit IQ registers a domain in their own name. There is no validation during domain registration. That individual has no clue that their name and address was used to register a domain.

Furthermore, Aruba S.p.A. - Servizio Aruba.it, is a common registrar frequently used by eastern euorpean cyber criminals to register fraudulent domains.

By the way the logo on the fraudulent safetymotors-ebay.com website is directly sourced from an image stashed on tinypic.com, see: »i42.tinypic.com/35dc2gk.jpg

MGD

pcdebb
birdbrain
Premium Member
join:2000-12-03
Brandon, FL

pcdebb to Jdiva

Premium Member

to Jdiva
hey, something in Tampa, can i play?